State of the Union (Heresy)

[WrathOfTheLion]

Probably less 'spite', but that mixed resin/plastic kits require further coordination, weird stock things, etc. For the Deimos rhino for instance, it's not just making the resin bits, but then getting <x> number of non-boxed rhino bits to stick in there. Removing a few steps in there to get stock of a kit might be more important than you'd think.

[Vazzy]

Me right now seeing that two thirds of my army didn’t make the cut: https://youtu.be/WrfLsMArH3I.

 

Rest in power flame storm cannon boxnaughts, land raider Achilles, Excindio and Firewing Cabal.

[BitsHammer]

I suspect things that are currently missing won't be missing long term, just at initial launch. Perhaps this willl lead to a new Mark of Boxnaught as well specific for the Heresy. As much as I'd like to see more crossover between 30k and 40k it doesn't shock me that a company that (according to the Honest Wargamer) requires it's book and box department to turn a profit to split the product lines so they can track HH sales directly and not have it bleeding into 40k.

 

I suspect this might mean that some HH models will get pulled from 40k in the long run as well too.

 

No idea what they'll do with Custodes/Sisters of Silence with this split though.

[Noserenda]

Probably less 'spite', but that mixed resin/plastic kits require further coordination, weird stock things, etc. For the Deimos rhino for instance, it's not just making the resin bits, but then getting <x> number of non-boxed rhino bits to stick in there. Removing a few steps in there to get stock of a kit might be more important than you'd think.

Definitely spite, though my contact was considerably less complimentary about specific individuals im not a big fan of second hand mud.

 

Im certainly working from a biased source but the impression i got was GW is happy to share as the bigger dog but FW is sometimes weirdly fighty about its "turf". So being able to use Heresy stuff for 40k but not visa versa, well if you are marines or Custodes anyway, everyone else is :cuss out of luck :/ 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Strange. I wonder how much all that has changed since the significant reorganization that we heard about a few years back.

 

To some degree, I kind of understand the FW side there. I'm not certain it's spite, I think that part might be biased. There very well may be real reasons as to why they would do that, such as that it cannibalizes certain funding they get, etc.

We're dealing with second and third hand speculations on all of that, so who knows. Just my 2 cents is I can at least envision actual reasons why they would do that.

Edited April 2, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Hfran Morkai]

Drop Pod Assault.

 

No infiltrating Recon Squads, NOOOO!

 

It was pretty much the only thing I wanted to see change.

[Brofist]

Automata added to legion lists gain Legion Astartes (X).

Also thallax, with the right consul

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm definitely feeling drop pod assault Sons of Horus. That's going to be fun.

[Claws and Effect]

 

I think the Ironfire RoW being phase 1 but the units being missing from the phase 3 documents explains it easily enough, they decided to drop them between versions.

 

 

 

 

Or maybe the units that are working the way they wanted got dropped from the playtesting so playtesters wouldn't keep using stuff that doesn't need more testing?

[BitsHammer]

 

I think the Ironfire RoW being phase 1 but the units being missing from the phase 3 documents explains it easily enough, they decided to drop them between versions.

 

 

 

Or maybe the units that are working the way they wanted got dropped from the playtesting so playtesters wouldn't keep using stuff that doesn't need more testing?

 

Now that's some nice optimism! Either way we'll know in just a month.

[Astartes Consul]

Here’s the thing though, both the Custodes and Imperial Army lists can’t really be separated from 40k crossover kits in the same way. So how will that work?

 

I suspect things that are currently missing won't be missing long term, just at initial launch. Perhaps this willl lead to a new Mark of Boxnaught as well specific for the Heresy. As much as I'd like to see more crossover between 30k and 40k it doesn't shock me that a company that (according to the Honest Wargamer) requires it's book and box department to turn a profit to split the product lines so they can track HH sales directly and not have it bleeding into 40k.

 

I like your optimism. Hopefully we get some kind of hint during the launch period as to whether to expect dropped units to come back.

[The Scorpion]

http://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1648840751703.png

 

With almost every legion getting their own specific duelling weapon, I could see the Delegatus replacing the Paraetor in many tables. Sure, he won't be as formidable a fighter as the Praetor, but you take Praetors first and foremost for MotL, which the Delegatus has. And without restrictions on primary detachments and whatnot, he is free to lead a RoW from inside an allied detachment. The "Rally the Legion" rule is just the cherry on top. As far as I know, Praetors do not give buffs.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I have to admit to briefly considering returning to HH after a long time out, but the only thing I like about it for my blood angels is that raldoron had a minor buff, outside of that most things got a nerf to the point of it just being sad. I’m aware crimson paladins appear to have been somewhat fixed but that hardly makes up for sanguinius getting /worse/, the legion trait getting far worse, the special weapons being a side grade at best and the rites of war being decidedly meh.

 

I’m normally pretty positive and try to look for the good things, but really struggling to see any reason I should invest in HH again right now.

[Mogsam]

 

 

Frustrating that the artillery is gone. It's arbitrary and actually on sale.

Based on Slip's theory it's not arbitrary if the company wants to keep HH as it's own product line so they can better track sales to the product directly instead of guessing what people want to use models for and divy up sales that way.

That's an arbitrary reason when I don't work there. Internal politics isn't a good reason to write off expensive and common models.

 

I get say a caestus. Out of production for 5 years, so OK. But a medusa is often taken in 3 model batteries. That's £240 written off. I have several lightnings so another write off for a current common model.

 

If the leaks are true, I've lost across all my armies:

 

10 nullificators

3 artillery tanks

2 lightnings

2 boxnoughts

Warmonger

Nullificator primus

2 caestus assault rams

[Astartes Consul]

I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but have we actually seen the first page of Sanguinnius’s rules yet? Because that would be where Deep Strike is listed, right?

[Elzender]

Wait, is the tank pictured under the proteus carrier squadron a spartan? Bevause the tracks are definitely not from a phobos landraider, and if I recall correctly no proteus has an assault ramp, no ? That seems weird.

 

Also, Slips, maybe it would be a good idea to create new tactica threads for the new edition, and archive the old ones? Considering most of them are 30+ pages long, it might be better to start clean for people that might jump into the heresy with this new edition, while also keeping the old discussions intact for people that might want to keep using legacy rules.

[Slips]

When the edition launches, sure I guess.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Some interesting options that I just saw: it is possible to have 20 man Breacher squads all armed with volkite chargers & 20 man Despoiler squads all armed with heavy chainswords.

 

Have I missed the rules for despoilers and breachers somewhere?

[Astartes Consul]

Wait, is the tank pictured under the proteus carrier squadron a spartan? Bevause the tracks are definitely not from a phobos landraider, and if I recall correctly no proteus has an assault ramp, no ? That seems weird.

 

Also, Slips, maybe it would be a good idea to create new tactica threads for the new edition, and archive the old ones? Considering most of them are 30+ pages long, it might be better to start clean for people that might jump into the heresy with this new edition, while also keeping the old discussions intact for people that might want to keep using legacy rules.

Yeah it’s a Spartan

[Marshal Mittens]

I wonder if the Beakie MK VI kit will have options to build them as something other than normal tac marines, like if they can be built to other roles as well?

[D3L]

 

 

Frustrating that the artillery is gone. It's arbitrary and actually on sale.

Based on Slip's theory it's not arbitrary if the company wants to keep HH as it's own product line so they can better track sales to the product directly instead of guessing what people want to use models for and divy up sales that way.

That's an arbitrary reason when I don't work there. Internal politics isn't a good reason to write off expensive and common models.

 

I get say a caestus. Out of production for 5 years, so OK. But a medusa is often taken in 3 model batteries. That's £240 written off. I have several lightnings so another write off for a current common model.

 

If the leaks are true, I've lost across all my armies:

 

10 nullificators

3 artillery tanks

2 lightnings

2 boxnoughts

Warmonger

Nullificator primus

2 caestus assault rams

 

don't worry, they'll pretend it didn't happen

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea the stuff like the Medusa and lightning is especially frustrating, seeing as they're willing to sell them to you in the run up to 2nd.

 

Like maybe they can try and pull a "oh it's a Navy lightning, so you should have expected it go with an affiliated army", but the legion medusa is called the legion medusa. There's no mental gymnastics at play there.

[Astartes Consul]

It’s also not a 40k compatible kit (for Astartes at least) so that’s even more tedious.

[BitsHammer]

I like your optimism. Hopefully we get some kind of hint during the launch period as to whether to expect dropped units to come back.

It's optimism and more an assumption they'll want to make more money.

 

I do like the theory that things the team felt didn't need further playtesting may have been remove from the document. It's also possible different groups have different documents with different units missing to prevent leaks. Or it's a combination of factors. I admit I have no dog in this race since I never got into 30k proper in the past due to its high costs keeping my local community away, but I am trying to no assume the worst until I see the actual book.

 

As for how "arbitrary" some find it: it's probable that Forge World has to show they make enough money to justify their continued existance seperate from the main studio at this point. Bligh was basically the heart and soul of FW and without him it quickly began to struggle quite a bit.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Not trying to be flippant: those of you who have medusas can just call them “medusa pattern arquitors” can’t you? I have quite a few phobos raiders that I plan to use anyway.