State of the Union (Heresy)

[Brofist]

Any new rumors from those of you better connected ?

[derLumpi]

I reread some of the leaks some days ago and at one point it was stated that we will see new HH stuff in November.

 

I guess we will have to wait.

[Grim Dog Studios]

Any new rumors from those of you better connected ?

 

I think Valrak mentioned in his stream the other night it's not looking like we will get the boxset this year, but that it will be previewed in/around December time.

[No Foes Remain]

I do remember reading somewhere that the box was said to have been pushed back to next year, probably to go with the anniversary of 40k so they can hype it up as that as well (meaning that it will probably sell out quickly).

 

It's so frustrating that nearly all the other game systems gets roadmaps (even the Old World which is still in progress) but 30k gets left in the dark, like the nerdy kid at school no one likes or wants to be friends with.

[Corswain]

Next year makes some sense if GW wants to re-introduce it as a "Core" line - they could rotate new editions every year between 40K, AOS and Heresy. Not sure where that would leave LOTR but it's just a theory.

[MCC]

Id genuinely be gutted if it has been put back to next year as its stopping my investment into the heresy as I don't want to spend money if things are going to be out of scale or out of date. But at the moment it seems to be the most likely option. The only way I think we'll see anything this year is if they show something off at the heresy event at warhammer world this weekend or if they do a siege of terra exemplary battle article and announce it there. But with the 40k codex roadmaps, new kill team box, the new edition of Age Of Sigmar needing more battletomes and the new Underworlds season i cant see it being this year at all anymore sadly.

 

I might have to do the unthinkable now and start painting my pile of shame until we get some concrete information!!

[Loquille]

We've another Exemplary Battle article today. 

This time between the Night Lords and Ultramarines 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/04/launch-a-daring-strike-into-the-heart-of-ultramar-with-the-night-lords/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=HHBattles041021&utm_content=HHBattles041021&fbclid=IwAR2ie3nOUE19Llk5E2bSOnNWXauQclk47v7KhhOsn7fqlZKux5Ta_6ZIs20

[Joe]

Full shot of the rules, in case anyone can't open the article.

 

[Astartes Consul]

Love to see another one released only a few weeks after the Pluto one.

 

Also quite amused that, after the whole 'Why no Atrementar?!' thing from Crusade, they've just gone and made rules for them now with no fuss.

 

Similar to the IF Huscarl rules, they seem to be quite well balanced, narrative driven and also fit in with the Legion's existing rules (or in this case, Sevatar's). So that's all very nice.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Astartes Consul

[Noserenda]

 

 

Also quite amused that, after the whole 'Why no Atrementar?!' thing from Crusade, they've just gone and made rules for them now with no fuss.

 

Well, no fuss if you ignored all the very defensive responses at the time, and the same issue with later legions ;) 

 

It is good that they are finally rectifying that mistake a few years later though!

 

Generally solid, love the Sworn loyalty rule, hate the specified terminator armour again as it just renders swathes of already made models invalid for no gain. Still, a decent opponent shouldnt mind a different armour type.

[bushman101]

With Legions getting stats for units in these campaign packs, I'm hoping for Sang Guard to show up for the IXth

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

Also quite amused that, after the whole 'Why no Atrementar?!' thing from Crusade, they've just gone and made rules for them now with no fuss.

 

Well, no fuss if you ignored all the very defensive responses at the time, and the same issue with later legions  

 

It is good that they are finally rectifying that mistake a few years later though!

 

Generally solid, love the Sworn loyalty rule, hate the specified terminator armour again as it just renders swathes of already made models invalid for no gain. Still, a decent opponent shouldnt mind a different armour type.

 

 

It's actually like...1 year since Crusade came out lol. Maybe a year and a half since the contekar =/= atrementar statement from facebook.

 

 

As for the armour type. Like ya, it sucks for those of us who have swathes of cataphractii (like me, with my 25 or so for my night lords), but lets look at the rules. 

 

275 for WS 5, +1 Attack, teleport transponders, trophies  and force Disordered (this stops rage and rampage).  If Sevatar (arguably the best HQ in the game) is your warlord, then you get them as troops outside of Pride. They're stacked in rules and synergies; they combo with curze's fear buff, can flex into combi-deepstrike, terror assault with Sev as troops, can take chainfists to fight anything....I can keep on going, but the point is that its a no brainer to put them in cataphractii and they need a weakness.

[No Foes Remain]

The rules look cool, but like others have said it would be nice to not be limited to armour type like with the Huscarls. Especially so since they have had their armour preference written about in the books.

 

One thing I noted was one line that may be nothing but

 

"Well, the Horus Heresy team over at Forge World are back with another action-packed Exemplary Battle. Here’s their studio’s resident Praetor Andy Hoare with more on what awaits."

 

Did we ever get confirmation on the rumours ages ago saying Andy was now the head of HH stuff?

[Noserenda]

 

 

 

It's actually like...1 year since Crusade came out lol. Maybe a year and a half since the contekar =/= atrementar statement from facebook.

 

 

As for the armour type. Like ya, it sucks for those of us who have swathes of cataphractii (like me, with my 25 or so for my night lords), but lets look at the rules. 

 

275 for WS 5, +1 Attack, teleport transponders, trophies  and force Disordered (this stops rage and rampage).  If Sevatar (arguably the best HQ in the game) is your warlord, then you get them as troops outside of Pride. They're stacked in rules and synergies; they combo with curze's fear buff, can flex into combi-deepstrike, terror assault with Sev as troops, can take chainfists to fight anything....I can keep on going, but the point is that its a no brainer to put them in cataphractii and they need a weakness.

 

Night lords have had rules for considerably longer than a year, werent they initially released in Book 2? Which i think predates ADBs work where they first appear somewhat but they have had all that time since to add them somewhere, thus, years. It may have gotten acrimonious around Crusade onwards but the demand has been there since then.

 

Its a downright boooold claim that Tartaros armour is a straight nerf over Cataphract though :D I prefer the Cataphract minis but im pretty sure the Tartaros mobility actually synergises better with those rules, especially being able to sweeping advance.

 

Like i said, its a strictly limiting choice, i suspect just to drive model sales rather than any rules reasoning. Which is bad.

[Bung]

Dont most legion specific Terminator Units have a designated armour in their profile?

 

The only exeptions in the Red Book are Iron Hands Gorgons, which have their own rules and Deathshroud Terminators.

Only in the Deathshroud entry is Legion Terminator Armour listed and you are free to choose.

All other entries state either Cataphractii or Tartaros.

 

WE have seen 2 new Legion specific Terminator units and both follow the same pattern.

[Astartes Consul]

The thing that links the Artrementar and the Huscarls from the last pack is that GW have indicated that they have no intention to make new kits for them, and they want to encourage players to kit-bash/convert them. So having the Atrementar in Tartaros makes sense, as there is already a Night Lord Tartaros kit to act as a base. Similar to the Huscarls being in Cataphractii, as the IF storm shield kit is designed for that armour type.

 

 

 

 

 

Also quite amused that, after the whole 'Why no Atrementar?!' thing from Crusade, they've just gone and made rules for them now with no fuss.

 

Well, no fuss if you ignored all the very defensive responses at the time, and the same issue with later legions  

It is good that they are finally rectifying that mistake a few years later though!

Generally solid, love the Sworn loyalty rule, hate the specified terminator armour again as it just renders swathes of already made models invalid for no gain. Still, a decent opponent shouldnt mind a different armour type.

 

 

Oh yeah, I meant more that they've just dropped these rules in a free campaign pack, no fanfare and no reference to the previous...um...issues  

 

 

 

 

 

Also quite amused that, after the whole 'Why no Atrementar?!' thing from Crusade, they've just gone and made rules for them now with no fuss.

 

Well, no fuss if you ignored all the very defensive responses at the time, and the same issue with later legions  

It is good that they are finally rectifying that mistake a few years later though!

Generally solid, love the Sworn loyalty rule, hate the specified terminator armour again as it just renders swathes of already made models invalid for no gain. Still, a decent opponent shouldnt mind a different armour type.

 

 

It's actually like...1 year since Crusade came out lol. Maybe a year and a half since the contekar =/= atrementar statement from facebook.

 

 

As for the armour type. Like ya, it sucks for those of us who have swathes of cataphractii (like me, with my 25 or so for my night lords), but lets look at the rules. 

 

275 for WS 5, +1 Attack, teleport transponders, trophies  and force Disordered (this stops rage and rampage).  If Sevatar (arguably the best HQ in the game) is your warlord, then you get them as troops outside of Pride. They're stacked in rules and synergies; they combo with curze's fear buff, can flex into combi-deepstrike, terror assault with Sev as troops, can take chainfists to fight anything....I can keep on going, but the point is that its a no brainer to put them in cataphractii and they need a weakness.

 

 

Wait...only one year? God, this pandemic has really warped my sense of time. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

 

 

It's actually like...1 year since Crusade came out lol. Maybe a year and a half since the contekar =/= atrementar statement from facebook.

 

 

As for the armour type. Like ya, it sucks for those of us who have swathes of cataphractii (like me, with my 25 or so for my night lords), but lets look at the rules. 

 

275 for WS 5, +1 Attack, teleport transponders, trophies  and force Disordered (this stops rage and rampage).  If Sevatar (arguably the best HQ in the game) is your warlord, then you get them as troops outside of Pride. They're stacked in rules and synergies; they combo with curze's fear buff, can flex into combi-deepstrike, terror assault with Sev as troops, can take chainfists to fight anything....I can keep on going, but the point is that its a no brainer to put them in cataphractii and they need a weakness.

 

Night lords have had rules for considerably longer than a year, werent they initially released in Book 2? Which i think predates ADBs work where they first appear somewhat but they have had all that time since to add them somewhere, thus, years. It may have gotten acrimonious around Crusade onwards but the demand has been there since then.

 

Its a downright boooold claim that Tartaros armour is a straight nerf over Cataphract though I prefer the Cataphract minis but im pretty sure the Tartaros mobility actually synergises better with those rules, especially being able to sweeping advance.

 

Like i said, its a strictly limiting choice, i suspect just to drive model sales rather than any rules reasoning. Which is bad.

 

 

What I quoted was specifically about the "why no atrementar" issues from crusade. That's what AstartesConsul said, and that's what you explicitly addressed with "if you ignore the very defensive responses at the time". It's been less than 2 years since the crusade previews started.

 

It's not a bold claim.

 

Its completely accurate in most scenarios, the outliers being a flamer-heavy overwatch build and any legion that can access stormshields. To maximise the flamer build you need to be outside a transport with unshot combis; a full 20 man squad with combis and heavy flamers all getting max hits against power armour averages 10.5 dead marines. The actual average of 2/d3 is 6.9 dead power armour. But you're inviting a ton of shooting with that blob and need to decide if your 877 point build is actually worth that result. Usually not. A less dramatic comparison is combi-bolters; you average 0.5 dead power armour from 5 overwtach combis, is that worth a 50% defensive boost? No.

 

As for sweeping, you need to have your terminators win combat, but not kill everything and then win a roll off. To say most melee terminator units are loaded to butcher units in melee is an understatement, especially as night lords, especially with access to chainglaives and ws 5. And then you have to consider that Tartaros will lower your chance of winning combat by leaving the terminator more vulnerable. You trade consistent defensive reliability for the hope that stuff works in your favour in niche scenarios or terrible builds. 

 

Its indeed a limiting choice, but one that's more concerned with balance. 

[Indefragable]

Interesting bits about the Atramentar.

 

As stated, kinda funny how they ended up releasing them after all. And at first glance they are interesting. Subtly maximizing NL strengths.

 

-can be a 20man Terminator unit. Damn. 

-WS5 2A/3A on the Sgt

-Trophies of Judgement, so Fear tests for opponents

-can all have Nostraman Chain Glaives

-Sgt can take Headsman's Axe
-anyone who charges them counts as Disordered
-Sevatar makes them Troops

 

So interestingly enough, you now have perhaps the single best Objective-holding unit in the game? 20 (!!!) Terminator bodies sitting on an OBJ with Fear tests, debuffing charge bonuses, and A Talent For Murder dissuading opponents from trying to push them off. 20x Terminator bodies count as 40x (!!!) for the purposes of ATFM. 

Pie Plates and plasma support squads will still counter them, but realistically with 20 bodies you could probably find a way to conga line your guys into attacking said squad while still controlling the OBJ. And what isn't susceptible to pie plates?

 

Interesting, fluffy unit and I look forward to seeing more of these to come.

[Indefragable]

With Legions getting stats for units in these campaign packs, I'm hoping for Sang Guard to show up for the IXth

 

Personally I would prefer Sang Guard as a full blown Black book choice with model support et al as opposed to just a hobbying opportunity, but hey, I guess we'll take what we can get at this point.

 

I think Ofanim ("Burning Eyes") would be a more interesting choice for this type of release for the IX Legion.

[bushman101]

 

With Legions getting stats for units in these campaign packs, I'm hoping for Sang Guard to show up for the IXth

 

 

Personally I would prefer Sang Guard as a full blown Black book choice with model support et al as opposed to just a hobbying opportunity, but hey, I guess we'll take what we can get at this point.

I think Ofanim ("Burning Eyes") would be a more interesting choice for this type of release for the IX Legion.

I largely agree.

I would say that getting Sang Guard released in the campaign pack would be easy for GW/FW since they have an available kit for 40k.

But Ofanim has appeal, depending on how its done

[Spagunk]

Ofanim never stuck me as a unit type in my opinion. My head cannon always painted them more of "units not normally attributed to line members" I.E. seekers, vigilators, recon marines etc. Things that require either stealth or purpose to fulfill necessary, albeit not glorious and dishonorable, internal tasks, assignments and missions.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Spagunk

[Cris R]

Ofanim never stuck me as a unit type in my opinion. My head cannon always painted them more of "units not normally attributed to line members" I.E. seekers, vigilators, recon marines etc. Things that require either stealth or purpose to fulfill necessary, albeit not glorious and dishonorable, internal tasks, assignments and missions.

Whoever said they had to be a unit? It's entirely plausible FW/GW throws a curveball and includes them as a HQ character with fluffy rules to match in a future supplement like the one that just got released.

[Cerbero666]

Now that they're doing Sotha, will we get Barabas Dantioch? 

 

Still, after the Destroyers announce I'm more interested in that aspect. Well, TBH I've been interested in any destroyer type unit since Betrayal.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Cerbero666

[bushman101]

Ofanim came off to me as something like the Military Police. They had their own heraldry (the stylized eye), so they had to be visible within the Legion. Possibly working with the Warders/Chaplains?

 

But maybe that's me reading too much into the little bit they had in the black book

[Cris R]

Ofanim came off to me as something like the Military Police. They had their own heraldry (the stylized eye), so they had to be visible within the Legion. Possibly working with the Warders/Chaplains?

 

But maybe that's me reading too much into the little bit they had in the black book

So that position within the structure of Space Marine chapters and legions stretches back to Rogue Trader: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/04/warhammer-40k-meet-the-space-marines-cops.html