State of the Union (Heresy)

[derLumpi]

Alright, got it! Thanks for sharing.

Just one thing missing - any dates? :-D

[Corswain]

I am loving the back banner. I have missed fhem.

[Chaeron]

Great Praetor - what a figure!

[MCC]

 

Looks like bolter with overslung melta like the ones in the 40k Sternguard kit. But I need him, as long as his scale isn't stupidly big like the IF praetor, and I'm sure I can find a use for him.

Well, bad news for you on that front. Assuming the rumours of Imperial Fists versus Sons of Horus are the start of a rescaled range, then I think this size is what we can look forward to in the future. I've run up a mock-up on Death of a Rubricist to compare the new Sons of Horus Praetor with the Imperial Fist, and also the Word Bearers and Ultramarines Terminators.

 

 

 

This really bothers me, If theyre rescaling why is it only the Imperial Fist and Sons Of Horus praetors that have been done? In just over a year theyve released 5 praetors the Dark angels, Word Bearers and Ultramarine one are all the same yet the other two are clearly bigger if this is the correct height. It makes no sense

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

 

This really bothers me, If theyre rescaling why is it only the Imperial Fist and Sons Of Horus praetors that have been done? In just over a year theyve released 5 praetors the Dark angels, Word Bearers and Ultramarine one are all the same yet the other two are clearly bigger if this is the correct height. It makes no sense

 

 

Sure bout that mate? I have the Word Bearers PA Praetor and he is definitely the same size as the current CSM kit. For that matter Khârn is also larger and he's been out for years now.. I suspect all of the "characters"/HQ models are actually larger scaled than the rank and file troops. 

 

Edit:

 

All that said, I'm a little dubious on if there actually is a set "scale" standard FW Marine models are set to. I am in the process of finishing a squad of Breachers for my Word Bearers. My Army is later heresy set and all of my tactical marines are using the CSM bodies with MkIV arms, helmets, backpads, and shoulder pads. I've noticed there is very little size difference between the Breacher MkIII and the CSM models which are considered true-"er" scaled compared to the rest of the GW Space Marines. Unfortunately, neither the plastic or resin MkIV are as close inside to the CSM bodies as the resin MkIII kits are. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Ehhh, they are all freak-o monster steroid mutants. Some are bigger than others. Whole batches of hundreds may be bigger than others of the same legion. Even in the 30K, it's not like any of them were actually good at the gene technology.

Some models are bigger, some aren't.

[apologist]

*snip*

This really bothers me, If theyre rescaling why is it only the Imperial Fist and Sons Of Horus praetors that have been done? In just over a year theyve released 5 praetors the Dark angels, Word Bearers and Ultramarine one are all the same yet the other two are clearly bigger if this is the correct height. It makes no sense

 

 

 

GW works on fairly long timescales. My suspicion is that the upcoming relaunch/second edition of Age of Darkness has been on the drawing board for a few years; likely concurrent with the plans for Primaris marines and a general resizing – but more importantly, with an internal shift on how and what Forgeworld/Specialist Games do, and the physical changes to the factory.

 

I suspect the majority of recent Age of Darkness releases – the Dark Angels, Ultramarines and Word Bearers – have been completed for a long time (in the order of years), and have simply been waiting for a release slot that never came, thanks to ongoing supply line issues (growing pains at GW HQ) and, subsequently, the pandemic – which threw the schedule almost out of the window. 

 

As things have opened back up, the plans to relaunch Age of Darkness were pushed back, and the spotty release of the various Praetors has effectively been 'catching up' in order to get all the old-size figures out and (understandably) maximise sales prior to the official acknowledgement of the new edition, which I think will see a slightly different aesthetic: moving everything in the range to match the slightly larger Character Series size. 

 

With the Sons of Horus Praetors (both Terminator and power armour) looking to be in the larger Character Series scale, I don't think that the Fists were a mistake or an exception. Rather, with the rumours looking like a Sons of Horus vs Imperial Fist theme in the new box, I think that the new edition will be a consolidation, and that the Character Series scale is what we'll see in the future for all future releases.

[Noserenda]

I suspect Apologist is right, specifically the Legion specific Praetors and Dreads were initially all passion projects by the sculptors or unused concepts they kinda liked. It stands to reason they may well have a bit of a backlog of those for a rainy day as apparently the turnaround on getting a resin master to production is relatively quick/cheap to help fill gaps in releases.

[StrangerOrders]

I suspect Apologist is right, specifically the Legion specific Praetors and Dreads were initially all passion projects by the sculptors or unused concepts they kinda liked. It stands to reason they may well have a bit of a backlog of those for a rainy day as apparently the turnaround on getting a resin master to production is relatively quick/cheap to help fill gaps in releases.

Rainy day away then, since Praetors (except the Space Wolf one lol) have all been very strong imo so far, as have the Leviathans. Contemptors have always and uniformly been beautiful.

 

Btw, does anyone have a list of which legions are missing their Praetors and Levies? Off the top of my head I can only think of EC, IH, IW and DG being missing.

[lansalt]

Salamanders and RG are missing too.

[1ncarnadine]

Thousand Sons and Space Wolves are both missing a power-armoured Praetor, and the World Eaters don't have any either. So it's basically 7 Legions and two "halves" left for those.

There are a few more missing Leviathans, if they're going to keep up with those. Off the top of my head: IF, SoH, UM and WB all got Praetors relatively recently but none have a Leviathan.

[Valkyrion]

 

I suspect Apologist is right, specifically the Legion specific Praetors and Dreads were initially all passion projects by the sculptors or unused concepts they kinda liked. It stands to reason they may well have a bit of a backlog of those for a rainy day as apparently the turnaround on getting a resin master to production is relatively quick/cheap to help fill gaps in releases.

Rainy day away then, since Praetors (except the Space Wolf one lol) have all been very strong imo so far, as have the Leviathans. Contemptors have always and uniformly been beautiful.

 

Btw, does anyone have a list of which legions are missing their Praetors and Levies? Off the top of my head I can only think of EC, IH, IW and DG being missing.

 

 

Units that are missing - TP = Terminator Praetor, P = Praetor, L = Leviathan, NC = Named Character

 

Dark Angels: NC

Blood Angels: None

Ultramarines: L

Imperial Fists: L

White Scars: None

Space Wolves: L

Iron Hands: P, L, NC* (Iron Father is technically TP?)

Raven Guard: TP, P, L, NC

Salamanders: TP, P, L, NC

 

Alpha Legion: L

Word Bearers: L

Night Lords: None

Emperor's Children: TP, P, L

Sons of Horus: L (TP just announced)

Thousand Sons: L, P

World Eaters: L, TP, P

Death Guard: L, TP, P

Iron Warriors: L, TP, P, NC

 

6 need Terminator Praetors, 8 need Praetors, 4 need Named Characters, and 14 need Leviathans - only the White Scars (when Khan is released), Blood Angels and Night Lords have 'everything'. 

[Astartes Consul]

I suspect Apologist is right, specifically the Legion specific Praetors and Dreads were initially all passion projects by the sculptors or unused concepts they kinda liked. It stands to reason they may well have a bit of a backlog of those for a rainy day as apparently the turnaround on getting a resin master to production is relatively quick/cheap to help fill gaps in releases.

 

See also the huge gap between the XIII Legion Contemptor - which dropped out of the blue - and the follow up characters recently.

[apologist]

Thanks Valkyrion, that's a very helpful list
Stripping out the Leviathan (as the scale/size of that is unlikely to change), and the named Characters, here's the list of Legions missing a Terminator Praetor and/or Praetor model.

 

Dark Angels: None
Blood Angels: None
Ultramarines: None
Imperial Fists: None [seemingly Character Series scale]
White Scars: None
Space Wolves: None
Iron Hands: P,  (TP?)
Raven Guard: TP, P
Salamanders: TP, P
 
Alpha Legion: None
Word Bearers: None
Night Lords: None
Emperor's Children: TP, P
Sons of Horus: None [seemingly Character Series scale]
Thousand Sons: P
World Eaters: TP, P
Death Guard: TP, P
Iron Warriors: TP, P
 
With the proviso that I don't think we can really read too much into this – even if my guesses above are right about an intentional rescaling, the releases cover many years; almost certainly prior to any meaningful discussion about a shift to the Character Series scale – It's fun to speculate.

 

Besides, what's the point of an online forum if not to obsessively look for patterns?

 

A couple of thoughts:

• The Traitors look like low-hanging fruit for a potential campaign themed around the Siege of Terra. With the exception of the Thousand Sons Terminator Praetor in the current scale, all the Traitor Legions present in strength at Terra (according to the Siege of Terra series) are missing their generic characters. 
• The Shattered Legions are also notable for all lacking their generic characters.

Time will tell if that's coincidence, or whether FW have a backlog of Character Series-scale character models ready to release following the launch of the (rumoured) Age of Darkness 2nd Edition.

Edited November 17, 2021 by apologist

[Cris R]

 

 

I suspect Apologist is right, specifically the Legion specific Praetors and Dreads were initially all passion projects by the sculptors or unused concepts they kinda liked. It stands to reason they may well have a bit of a backlog of those for a rainy day as apparently the turnaround on getting a resin master to production is relatively quick/cheap to help fill gaps in releases.

Rainy day away then, since Praetors (except the Space Wolf one lol) have all been very strong imo so far, as have the Leviathans. Contemptors have always and uniformly been beautiful.

 

Btw, does anyone have a list of which legions are missing their Praetors and Levies? Off the top of my head I can only think of EC, IH, IW and DG being missing.

 

 

Units that are missing - TP = Terminator Praetor, P = Praetor, L = Leviathan, NC = Named Character

 

Dark Angels: NC

Blood Angels: None

Ultramarines: L

Imperial Fists: L

White Scars: None

Space Wolves: L

Iron Hands: P, L, NC* (Iron Father is technically TP?)

Raven Guard: TP, P, L, NC

Salamanders: TP, P, L, NC

 

Alpha Legion: L

Word Bearers: L

Night Lords: None

Emperor's Children: TP, P, L

Sons of Horus: L (TP just announced)

Thousand Sons: L, P

World Eaters: L, TP, P

Death Guard: L, TP, P

Iron Warriors: L, TP, P, NC

 

6 need Terminator Praetors, 8 need Praetors, 4 need Named Characters, and 14 need Leviathans - only the White Scars (when Khan is released), Blood Angels and Night Lords have 'everything'. 

 

FYI, Blood Angels are missing Judiciar Aster Crohne as a named character

[Noserenda]

Yes i think you have missed an awful lot of Legions missing named characters, White Scars, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Deathguard just from characters i can think of off the top of my head.

[apologist]

I assume Valkyrion is referring to Legions without at least one named character (e.g. Blood Angels have Raldoron); but happy to be corrected?

[Valkyrion]

I assume Valkyrion is referring to Legions without at least one named character (e.g. Blood Angels have Raldoron); but happy to be corrected?

 

 

Correct. Most Legions are missing all named characters, but several don't have one. 

[Corswain]

Named characters who aren't in Black Library novels won't get models so don't hold your breath for those. The have released some models which "happen" to have fhe same loadout though so there is always a chance of that.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Yes, the legions marked as missing named characters don't have a single named character, definitely how I read it. Of course things like WS, etc. have some that aren't released, but I would think giving DA or RG even a single named character is more pressing than filling out the remainder of the Blood Angels ones for instance.

Edited November 17, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Sonoftheforest]

Space wolves are missing a power armoured praetor aren't they?

[Valkyrion]

Space wolves are missing a power armoured praetor aren't they?

 

They are indeed, good spot. 

[MegaVolt87]

Named character wise, I think it's reasonable that every legion should get rules and a mini for their first captain.

[Cris R]

Yes, the legions marked as missing named characters don't have a single named character, definitely how I read it. Of course things like WS, etc. have some that aren't released, but I would think giving DA or RG even a single named character is more pressing than filling out the remainder of the Blood Angels ones for instance.

I agree here. The other thing is whether FW or GW should consider rereleasing Fell-Hand and Ahriman given they've gone out of print. Not entirely sure they will but it's worth adding to this discussion.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Named characters who aren't in Black Library novels won't get models so don't hold your breath for those. The have released some models which "happen" to have fhe same loadout though so there is always a chance of that.

Golg was in the Crimson fist.

 

Kaedes nex was mentioned in Lord of Shadows.

 

Surlak was in the angron book.

 

Tsolomon khan was in Warhawk.

 

Meduson is in old earth I think and name dropped a ton.

 

The one SoH guy was in the original trilogy and appears in old earth and Vengeful Spirit.

 

Holy Beloth was in know no fear.

 

I'm sure I'm missing some more. The point is there's a lot of name dropped characters who have been incorporated into the novels. I'd argue they're more important than a leviathan or generic praetors, especially since the quality risks being in the night lords, space wolf and ultramarine territory.