State of the Union (Heresy)

[MegaVolt87]

For 30k, they've been releasing new units that you have to convert in these new campaign pdfs, so I don't think they're entirely averse to it.

 

Even in 40k, some of the newer models have shown some degree of it as well (9E Dark Angels notably shows those new kits crossed with the old DA upgrade sprue).

 

So I think they're certainly less against some degree of conversion even in studio models as compared to say, two or three years ago.

 

GW would never release something bespoke to kitbash like an IF primaris Housecarl unit with power axes and solarite gauntlet, neo volkite pistols options, to convert yourself in a free 40k campaign supplement. You can't even mix any torso and legs you wish anymore for variety. Its worse on the new CSM kits where the ornate nature repeated so often is telling. 30k is what 40k used to be. They should add orks, eldar and DE to 30k and have a version of create a xenos like the ruinstorm demons rules. 

[lansalt]

GW would never release something bespoke to kitbash like an IF primaris Housecarl unit with power axes and solarite gauntlet, neo volkite pistols options, to convert yourself in a free 40k campaign supplement. You can't even mix any torso and legs you wish anymore for variety. Its worse on the new CSM kits where the ornate nature repeated so often is telling. 30k is what 40k used to be.

Despite the "no model - no rules" policy, GW does feature low-key kitbashes in many codexes and WD issues (like the infamous GSC orks). The old chapter upgrade sprues are still sold and several have images of primaris witn them (like the DA/BA/SW old upgrades).

EDIT: There's also a 40k SM army purposely made for kitbashes and units with bespoke datasheets/rules: Deathwatch. It allows players to do all kinds of mixed units not allowed to normal chapters.

 

The fused torso/legs may be annoying, but it has given us at least much better posed minis without their belt buckles in their hips like it used to happen. GW has also compensated for it giving us a lot more dynamic unique poses while retaining full compatibility with old heads, arms and other bits.

 

CSM have now more models than they've ever had before. Between the Patrol, the multipart box, Havocs, and other characters, there are now 25-30 unique torsos (with several alternate chest pieces) and even more heads and arms, more than enough for any army. It's way better than the old 5 copy-pasted plastic guys of the old kit or the 4 berzerkers, while you can still kitbash them at will with many of the old parts if you wish.

 

I think that most people just build the models literally as the instructions say, and that gives the false impression that there are no kitbash potential, which is far from true.

 

BTW, the leaked images of HH 2.0 beakies clearly show them made with the fused torso/legs.

Edited February 3, 2022 by lansalt

[jaxom]

Unpopular opinion: I hope there's more kits with less parts. Super customization for every model is great for a skirmish game, but I dislike it for a game of grand armies. For example, I'm disinclined towards the Storm of War because is requires a minimum of 40 marines to take advantage of and the older style of marine bodies is a pain to assemble in mass compared to the newer kits. I do want modeling options and opportunities where they matter, but that's not the bulk of an army.

 

I don't want xenos in the game for the simple reason that I like the appeal of this being the Imperial Civil War, brother against brother. Maybe do a War of the Beast or something like that for those who want xenos. 

[lansalt]

An "historical 40k" version of the HH rules (from the Scouring to Badab/Vraks) would be a great home for all those old MKVII around, while allowing also most of the 30 units, yes.

[Noserenda]

Iansalt expertly dismantled much of that but...

Modern stuff is barely harder to convert, a couple of minutes more with the clippers maybe at most? Hand and head swaps make up 90% of kitbashes and they are as easy as theyve ever been :D Plus cutting through split limbs and torsos is genuinely easier than doing it in one pop.

Kitbashes are all over the place, they do official kitbashing guides in White dwarf, one of the warhammer tv presenters is famously good at kitbashes and often shows them off, whole datasheets exist that may not neeeed kitbashing but strongly suggest it. If you dont think GW is promoting kitbashing, you arent paying attention.

I suspect the reason GW has stopped selling the various tools at noob trap prices is two fold. First of all its just _much easier_ to see through that as a selling practice these days, amazon can get you anything next day pretty much and the knowledge base of hobbyists is larger and has access to a much, much larger knowledge base to get the right tools at the best price.

Secondly, GW knows this. So their remaining tools are branded, better (maybe not great still ofc) priced and generally aimed at weird niches or essentials rather than common stuff in a GW packet, all in all i think its a positive shift.

I think FW is making a poor decision trying to sit on the Heresy box news but im also sure they dooooo love money, theyll release that box as soon as they can.

[jaxom]

Also, I like the "what you buy is what you can play" model for the most part. I bought breachers... but they're sold as a 5 pack despite the minimum unit size being ten. That seems weird to me.

[Petitioner's City]

Yeah kitbashes are across GW's media, and fan and staff kitbashes are laudedd endlessly on Whc, twitch, and Twitter, they were a continuous subject on the voxcast/stormcast podcast, and they feature in each issue of White Dwarf. I'm not sure anyone can say that GW is anti-conversion or anti-kitbash

[Cris R]

Unpopular opinion: I hope there's more kits with less parts. Super customization for every model is great for a skirmish game, but I dislike it for a game of grand armies. For example, I'm disinclined towards the Storm of War because is requires a minimum of 40 marines to take advantage of and the older style of marine bodies is a pain to assemble in mass compared to the newer kits. I do want modeling options and opportunities where they matter, but that's not the bulk of an army.

 

I don't want xenos in the game for the simple reason that I like the appeal of this being the Imperial Civil War, brother against brother. Maybe do a War of the Beast or something like that for those who want xenos. 

 

This. There are plenty of folks with families and/or careers with long work hours who may want simpler kits to assemble and paint with the limited time they have to dedicate to the hobby. Obviously there are people who can dedicate more time to complex kits; I'm sure some of you fall into this camp like I do, thankfully. But the shift to games with lower model counts, simpler models, and/or shorter play times across the whole hobby recognizes that this setup appeals to many adults who don't have a lot of time on their hands. Some hobby veterans may understandably not like this but the hobby changes as the world changes.

 

The one caveat specific to 40k is that it can be a meta-chasing system, which may be another reason GW has focused on simpler models that are easier for individuals to assemble and paint so they can adapt to the whatever the meta is at the moment. Given that 30k is a narrative-driven experience based around everyone building a unique army with lots of modifications and kitbashing, I hope that GW and Specialist Games makes rules and kits that respect this core element of the game.

 

It's also worth noting Necromunda definitely has not followed GW's trend towards simpler models. I picked up the two Palanite Enforcers kits and the Dark Uprising box and it's impressive the amount of customization you can do with these models. It's also neat to see the authors include random character sheets in each of the books that folks can kitbash together for their own gangs, something I think would do well in 30k where kit bashing characters has emerged as a key part of the game.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Cris R

[Mogsam]

The monopose nightmare is a real turn off. In fantasy it's fine, they're all ranked up and it's great, but 30k has the appeal because I can easily change poses, swap models around etc, without having too do that. If I field 30 marines, I can choose to make them the same, but it's an option. I don't have to clip them out in order for them to fit, or hack them in half just tk get a slightly different pose.

[Taliesin]

 

So as per Valrak's rumour news today, the by now mythical boxset has been delayed. No info on when it will come out, just that its been delayed.

[derLumpi]

Delayed again or is he just stating that it is delayed?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think it's pretty obviously delayed by now, but like, delayed until when? How long?

 

If it's that delayed, are they going to release a black book or something to tide it over? I think what's most irksome that they've very clearly already halted the other stuff on the premise of this, so they need to get on with it.

If the box is delayed, that means they should still move forward with any new publications they're to have, letting it just rot is not good.

[darkhorse0607]

 

If it's that delayed, are they going to release a black book or something to tide it over?

I think we all know the answer to that to be honest

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

 

If it's that delayed, are they going to release a black book or something to tide it over?

I think we all know the answer to that to be honest

 

I know the answer to that too, it was more rhetorical to make the point that they should be changing plans in some way.

[Noserenda]

Yeah if converting the rules for Fires of Cyraxus was too much work i figure thats true of anything written for another edition. :( 

[derLumpi]

Just watched the video and read the comments. Bummer.

Not sure if I can withstand the call of the Reaver.

[Taliesin]

I think it's pretty obviously delayed by now, but like, delayed until when? How long?

 

If it's that delayed, are they going to release a black book or something to tide it over? I think what's most irksome that they've very clearly already halted the other stuff on the premise of this, so they need to get on with it.

 

If the box is delayed, that means they should still move forward with any new publications they're to have, letting it just rot is not good.

 

If only they would actually release a Black Book, that would make up for the long wait. It looked so good as well, the stuff that was gonna be in it from what were told end of 2019.

 

But...if the rumors are true, then they have apparently silently ended them and are starting with supplementsm, which wouldnt come out until the boxset does ( or after..)

 

Any acknowledgement by FW/GW on what is going on would help so much. Just say what the plan is at least. Are the Black Books suddenly done?

[Doghouse]

The most frustrating part for me is I want to get stuck into an army but not if they are going change anything significant as part of a refresh.

[No Foes Remain]

The most frustrating part for me is I want to get stuck into an army but not if they are going change anything significant as part of a refresh.

I'm the same, currently have 1k of Sons of Horus partly assembled on my desk and I'm struggling to finish then up and paint them with all this silence from GW/FW in terms of the Heresy. I mean, they have admitted they don't even have a road-map for it but all the other systems do (Macca from the Outer Circle put up a post on their Facebook page and FW responded stating that they didn't have a road map).

 

 

I mean this "HH 2.0" could be the best thing that GW puts out but at this rate there won't be that many people interested in it due to GW's apparent lack of intrest in 30k from a fan's stand-point.

[Marshal Rohr]

If that’s true it’s incredibly upsetting. There’s no reason it should go this long without a rules adjustment.

[No Foes Remain]

If that’s true it’s incredibly upsetting. There’s no reason it should go this long without a rules adjustment.

Heres a link to the post Macca put up on youtube with FW's response.

 

I know a lot of people don't agree with him as he can be negative (though lately he's recognised this and is trying to improve) but his concerns as a hobbist are fair and GW/FW's silence on the matter is getting beyond stupid now. Hell even Necromunda got it's second road map, and every system and game gets FAQs/Erratra but HH which still has issues and the only reason that it hasn't gotten it is due to the 2.0 but we've got nothing.

[Marshal Rohr]

Macca is a such a jerk to Forge World and about Forge World he should be nowhere near speaking for ‘the community’. He’s radioactive and they are more likely to not do anything or saying if he’s the one badgering them.

[sarabando]

Macca is a such a jerk to Forge World and about Forge World he should be nowhere near speaking for ‘the community’. He’s radioactive and they are more likely to not do anything or saying if he’s the one badgering them.

 

nah Macca is a pretty solid representative of the heresy community in Aus. He works in the plastic manufacturing sector and deals with shipping and mould making etc so hes pretty qualified to call GW out on their BS. 

 

His main argument that the legions that have been out since nearly day one are still missing key minis is pretty on point. 

[Marshal Rohr]

That doesn’t make him not a toxic piece of [Redacted]. If someone’s gonna write a big letter ‘for the community’ to Forge World it should be one of the guys that actually has a positive contribution to the Heresy and knows Andy.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

Unpopular opinion: I hope there's more kits with less parts. Super customization for every model is great for a skirmish game, but I dislike it for a game of grand armies. For example, I'm disinclined towards the Storm of War because is requires a minimum of 40 marines to take advantage of and the older style of marine bodies is a pain to assemble in mass compared to the newer kits. I do want modeling options and opportunities where they matter, but that's not the bulk of an army.

 

I don't want xenos in the game for the simple reason that I like the appeal of this being the Imperial Civil War, brother against brother. Maybe do a War of the Beast or something like that for those who want xenos.

This. There are plenty of folks with families and/or careers with long work hours who may want simpler kits to assemble and paint with the limited time they have to dedicate to the hobby. Obviously there are people who can dedicate more time to complex kits; I'm sure some of you fall into this camp like I do, thankfully. But the shift to games with lower model counts, simpler models, and/or shorter play times across the whole hobby recognizes that this setup appeals to many adults who don't have a lot of time on their hands. Some hobby veterans may understandably not like this but the hobby changes as the world changes.

 

The one caveat specific to 40k is that it can be a meta-chasing system, which may be another reason GW has focused on simpler models that are easier for individuals to assemble and paint so they can adapt to the whatever the meta is at the moment. Given that 30k is a narrative-driven experience based around everyone building a unique army with lots of modifications and kitbashing, I hope that GW and Specialist Games makes rules and kits that respect this core element of the game.

 

It's also worth noting Necromunda definitely has not followed GW's trend towards simpler models. I picked up the two Palanite Enforcers kits and the Dark Uprising box and it's impressive the amount of customization you can do with these models. It's also neat to see the authors include random character sheets in each of the books that folks can kitbash together for their own gangs, something I think would do well in 30k where kit bashing characters has emerged as a key part of the game.

I've build Escher, Goliath, Delaque and Orlock and all of these kits where basically monopose models. You can selbst the heads and some arms (not for every body though) but that's it. Those models come in 6-8 parts but there is no reason for it. They are almost like snapfit models but you have to tinker them together which creates the illusion of having a real variety but if you look at it you have very littly jiggeling room for customisation. And this is true for a lot of new GW kits.

I don't want that for HH.