State of the Union (Heresy)

[darkhorse0607]

If they make such a box anything between 120-150 € seems plausible.

But it won't have a Spartan in it.

This is my speculation. I could see the 40 marines, two HQs, Contemptor, and Terminators as it's what we've seen in the past. It's not impossible to put a plastic Spartan in there, I just don't think it's plausible

[Spagunk]

I mean, if they did a Grand Master's edition maybe (Warmaster edition???). but definitely not if it's like a mini game similar to BaC or BoP.

[Corswain]

The £180 rumour has popped up twice now. It certainly seems a likely price point to me and the value will depend on whether that Spartan is included.

It's probably an instant purchase for me either way, I have been saving the hobby budget for months just in case the rumours prove true.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Corswain

[MegaVolt87]

 

There is the heresy tax. For example compare the price difference between mk III/IV tac squads to 40k tac squads, same with the terminators and 40k terminators. Convert to percentages, calculate the average mark up percentage then add that to the base executioner cost if using that to estimate the cost of a plastic Spartan.

Uh? all tac squads are the same £30 at GW's site. And a box of intercessors is £35.

 

 

 Well   heresy tax must be an Australian phenomena on plastic kits. Comparing the prices of the six mentioned kits, I calculate the average heresy tax is a 21% mark up rounded down. 

[Noserenda]

When they released in the UK the Tactical squad was definitely cheaper, i guess price rises levelled it out over here for them but see also the Sisters of Silence box, also £30 for five smaller figures with arguably less customisation, 33% more than their closest peers the Stormtrooper box (Which from memory has gone up a chunk more too).

Its also worth noting the difference between a discount box (Most big boxes) wehre they make less profit and a loss leader (most 40k/AoS starters) where they dip into a loss to encourage people to buy in, usually driven by the paper/card in them where the margins are slimmer.

[MegaVolt87]

When they released in the UK the Tactical squad was definitely cheaper, i guess price rises levelled it out over here for them but see also the Sisters of Silence box, also £30 for five smaller figures with arguably less customisation, 33% more than their closest peers the Stormtrooper box (Which from memory has gone up a chunk more too).

Its also worth noting the difference between a discount box (Most big boxes) wehre they make less profit and a loss leader (most 40k/AoS starters) where they dip into a loss to encourage people to buy in, usually driven by the paper/card in them where the margins are slimmer.

I have mentioned in the past, based on OZ prices any 40k combat patrol where a walker or other vehicle is involved, said vehicle is basically free. The box loss would definitely be in the plastic Spartan discounted in a HH box set. I'll see how I feel in estimating the plastic Spartan RRP incorporating my heresy tax average result.

[WrathOfTheLion]

The standard tactical squad may have not been increased in price in all regions. In the US, the tactical squad is $49 vs $50 for a MK IV kit. So if they didn't bump the tactical squad in AUD to match closely to the MK IV, there still might be a differential there.

[MegaVolt87]

The standard tactical squad may have not been increased in price in all regions. In the US, the tactical squad is $49 vs $50 for a MK IV kit. So if they didn't bump the tactical squad in AUD to match closely to the MK IV, there still might be a differential there.

Believe me, prices have been increasing on the old tac squads and terminators in OZ, but the HH plastics has increased further ahead still, a 21% average gap I calculated at current prices. I can't prove it, but I believe it's due to get a HH sales curve on half or less the number of customers compared to other regions. It's also childs play to qualify for free postage on a OZ GW/FW order. OZ HH guys have at least one 3k pts force minimum at the low end of a collection despite the prices here. I am thinking of a second army even at 3k pts when the box + revamp drops.

[Gorgoff]

The £180 rumour has popped up twice now. It certainly seems a likely price point to me and the value will depend on whether that Spartan is included.

It's probably an instant purchase for me either way, I have been saving the hobby budget for months just in case the rumours prove true.

Don't forget that rumors tend to go in circles so that it seems as if it pops up several times but in fact are just two dudes who copy each other.

Doesn't matter for me really because MKVI is such a niche armour mark which none of my legions used in large quantities. That's the biggest hint for me that we didn't see a dedicated starter pack but instead a box like the other two who basically were designed to promote the new plastic kits and not the HH game.

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

The standard tactical squad may have not been increased in price in all regions. In the US, the tactical squad is $49 vs $50 for a MK IV kit. So if they didn't bump the tactical squad in AUD to match closely to the MK IV, there still might be a differential there.

Believe me, prices have been increasing on the old tac squads and terminators in OZ, but the HH plastics has increased further ahead still, a 21% average gap I calculated at current prices. I can't prove it, but I believe it's due to get a HH sales curve on half or less the number of customers compared to other regions. It's also childs play to qualify for free postage on a OZ GW/FW order. OZ HH guys have at least one 3k pts force minimum at the low end of a collection despite the prices here. I am thinking of a second army even at 3k pts when the box + revamp drops.

 

But you have to sample more than just those two kits to get an accurate picture.

 

Let's go through a few similarly priced items.

 

Eradicators        31.50 GBP    --    84 AUD

Tactical Squad   30.00 GBP.   --    70 AUD

Aggressors        30.00 GBP.    --    84 AUD

Bladeguard.       31.50 GBP.    --    84 AUD

Dreadnought.     30.00 GBP.    --    74 AUD

MK IV.                30.00 GBP.    --    85 AUD

MK III.                30.00 GBP.    --    84 AUD

 

As we can see, the MK III and IV kits are similarly priced to recent kits in the similar base price range, but the tactical squad is actually undercosted (as is the box dreadnought), which means instead of a Heresy tax, we must conclude that a price increase has happened on the tactical squad and dreadnought that hasn't been reflected in Australian pricing.

[MegaVolt87]

I sampled the HH PA infantry boxes to the 40k tac squad and the OG termi's to the HH plastics to get my result. We are talking about the HH tax on HH products, all your primaris examples don't factor into that. I don't care what primaris are doing, they are a separate thing. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

It doesn't matter what kit they are, that's not the point. You have to sample similarly priced kits between regions to see what's going on. I didn't pick them because they were Primaris 40k kits, but because they cost the same, were on the same page and I didn't want to click through the whole damn webstore to get datapoints.

 

The point is in the other locales (US and UK) there is no price difference between tactical marines for 40k and MK III and MK IV marines, so your datapoint is wrong (outside of Australia and New Zealand), and in fact, comes from GW underpricing the tactical squad in Australian as compared to the standard currency conversion black box they normally do.

 

By normalizing to a GBP conversion, we can determine whether the MK III/IV kits are overcosted comparatively, which they aren't. The tactical squad is the same price in the base currency of GW (British Pounds), the MK III/IV kits are costed the same as other similarly priced kits in the base currency, thus the price differential isn't from GW marking up the Heresy infantry kits.

Edited January 22, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[MegaVolt87]

Disagree, UK prices work out the cheapest of all the regions. Its easy to work out the top end and work backwards, that way you leave no room for doubt on the maximum potential prices. If any region is undercosted it's the UK.

[Corswain]

LVO preview this week - seems like the best odds we've had for a while for GW to (finally) get the Heresy train back on track. Fingers crossed...

[MegaVolt87]

nvm, disregard I couldn't fit my excel tables in.

 

TLDR Price estimates-

 

Plastic Spartan (GBP)146

Plastic Spartan (AUD)276

 

Its actually a good deal if the Typhon also moves to plastic into a dual kit as they share the same chassis. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by MegaVolt87

[WrathOfTheLion]

Disagree, UK prices work out the cheapest of all the regions. Its easy to work out the top end and work backwards, that way you leave no room for doubt on the maximum potential prices. If any region is undercosted it's the UK.

The standard tactical marine kit is actually less expensive (relative) in Australia/New Zealand than in the UK, EU and even the United States/Canada. To match those regions, they should cost ~84 AUD, not 70 AUD.

Edited January 24, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[MegaVolt87]

 

Disagree, UK prices work out the cheapest of all the regions. Its easy to work out the top end and work backwards, that way you leave no room for doubt on the maximum potential prices. If any region is undercosted it's the UK.

The standard tactical marine kit is actually less expensive (relative) in Australia/New Zealand than in the UK, EU and even the United States/Canada. To match those regions, they should cost ~84 AUD, not 70 AUD.

 

 

Australians on average already pay more than UK and I calculated that average to be about 32% more as it is at todays prices/ exchange rates + taxes etc. (24/01/2022). My spartan plastic estimate seems close to what other UK people are guessing, seemingly out of thin air. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

Yes, that's why I say relative. In GW black box whatever pricing, the tactical squad is underpriced in Australian.

 

I obviously also pay more than UK on average, by paying US prices. We're paying at least 25% more with sales tax, etc. added in on most things.

Edited January 24, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[MegaVolt87]

Yes, that's why I say relative. In GW black box whatever pricing, the tactical squad is underpriced in Australian.

 

I obviously also pay more than UK on average, by paying US prices. We're paying at least 25% more with sales tax, etc. added in on most things.

 

And by your very numbers, we are paying an average of 7% greater than your USA market. Also consider pricing strategy. There are 109 products in the base SM range. A gap on a few boxes can be picked up by others. The Mk III and IV tac squads are more here in OZ, so they could be potentially be covering reduced 40k tac squads sales. Increasing tac squad sales could see them lose money, while leaving the price lag and increasing the HH plastics costs instead keeps them in profit. You are too myopic with the costs. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

If Australian prices actually include taxes (US prices do not), then the tactical marine squad is actually undercosted to the point where it's actually cheaper in Australian than it is in USD.

 

The US equivalent price, including tax, would be 75.22 AUD at current exchange rate

Edited January 24, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Slips]

This discussion on prices that are highly unlikely to change in any consumer-favorable direction has gone on long enough and we are now swiftly moving on.

[MegaVolt87]

nvm, disregard I couldn't fit my excel tables in.

 

TLDR Price estimates-

 

Plastic Spartan (GBP)146

Plastic Spartan (AUD)276

 

Its actually a good deal if the Typhon also moves to plastic into a dual kit as they share the same chassis. 

 

This is actually what I was hoping people would be talking about. I omitted talking about the US market because I don't know their tax system(s) etc. 

[Lord Marshal]

LVO preview this week - seems like the best odds we've had for a while for GW to (finally) get the Heresy train back on track. Fingers crossed...

 

I'm not expecting anything until Adepticon at the earliest, since HH would now make sense to fill the lucrative Summer slot where a new 40k/AoS edition usually lands and there's a blank space there this year.

 

Most HH I'm expecting out of LVO is another Praetor pair.

[MegaVolt87]

 

LVO preview this week - seems like the best odds we've had for a while for GW to (finally) get the Heresy train back on track. Fingers crossed...

 

 

I'm not expecting anything until Adepticon at the earliest, since HH would now make sense to fill the lucrative Summer slot where a new 40k/AoS edition usually lands and there's a blank space there this year.

 

Most HH I'm expecting out of LVO is another Praetor pair.

I could see legion Levi's, more characters also. HH box teaser, full reveal at Adepticon is plausible.

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

 

 

LVO preview this week - seems like the best odds we've had for a while for GW to (finally) get the Heresy train back on track. Fingers crossed...

 

I'm not expecting anything until Adepticon at the earliest, since HH would now make sense to fill the lucrative Summer slot where a new 40k/AoS edition usually lands and there's a blank space there this year.

 

Most HH I'm expecting out of LVO is another Praetor pair.

I could see legion Levi's, more characters also. HH box teaser, full reveal at Adepticon is plausible.

 

This is the scenario I'm hoping for. Round up and finish the Word Bearers, show off a Word Bearer Leviathan, finish up the Sons of Horus with their Leviathan. Show some love to the Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Salamanders. Give them characters, damn it.