State of the Union (Heresy)

[Sete]

Horus Heresy 2.0?

If it's in full plastic glory, I'm in!

[sarabando]

Legion upgrade kits like the current black templar box would make my iron within become iron without ifyouknowwhatimean.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I was pondering what units might be good candidates for porting over should a core-plastic range become a reality, and realised that plastic character models are pretty much the same price as FW's resin ones at this point, so there's a big chunk of their range that's probably fine as is (although I would expect a couple of basic choices/ re-packaged characters from the B@C box)

[Mogsam]

Really the suggestion earlier in the thread to just make upgrade sprues is the winner for me. Just a sprue with jetpacks and combat weapons would make a decent assault marines process. A sprue with shields for Breachers etc.

 

Would it be the best for converting? No. But GW doesn't exactly seem that bothered about conversions these days.

[Cris R]

I was pondering what units might be good candidates for porting over should a core-plastic range become a reality, and realised that plastic character models are pretty much the same price as FW's resin ones at this point, so there's a big chunk of their range that's probably fine as is (although I would expect a couple of basic choices/ re-packaged characters from the B@C box)

If GW and FW wanted to make a big splash with Heresy 2.0, they'd release the Emperor as a GW plastic kit, not a Forge World resin one.

 

Obviously this would run counter to the "core plastic plus resin upgrades/special units/characters business model" that folks in this thread - including me - advocate for. And it's doubtful that FW would want to give up a very lucrative model that would draw a lot of interest in its resin range, especially if it pivots towards a core plastic range for the whole system.

 

But it would lay down a major marker that FW and GW would be serious to bringing other characters to the plastic range and investing in the core plastic range's future by expanding its appeal to non-resin GW customers. GW and FW could have a limited edition FW resin version in an alternate pose that the company sells at cons while keeping the plastic one for regular purchase.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Cris R

[sarabando]

Honestly i all depends on how they want the game to go from here.  As for "core" units in plastic i think the below list would cover the majority of what people would want.

 

all armour marks as tactical boxes

 

Assault marine upgrade kit (jump packs, running legs, arms etc) for mkII and Mk4 (covers most armour marks)

 

Breachers

 

Deimos rhino and varients

 

Sicarian with resin upgrades for turrets.

 

Boxnought

 

New contemptor

 

Recon marines in recon armour

 

bikes

 

jetbikes

 

javalin speeder with resin weapon kits

 

multipart praetor/consol kit

 

mkII landraider

 

move FW resin stuff to characters, bigger kits, and upgrade kits.

Edited April 1, 2021 by sarabando

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I'd broadly agree with the above list, but given how popular destroyers are from a thematic point of view, I could see a full MkIV Destroyer /Assault Marine plastic dual kit being a good shout

Edited April 1, 2021 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[Lovecraft0110]

 

What? I think that’s a little strong.... I don’t think I’ve read any posts in this thread that support that theory. Alan Bligh was the architect of the heresy, so naturally people will judge things by the standard that has already been set. I think people can be too harsh in their judgements at times, but they are entitled to their opinion.

I do think it’s unhelpful to keep referencing Alan’s passing as an ongoing reason for the apparent stall in progress of the HH, when it’s clearly multifactorial.

Cadmus

 

You have a point - it was a bit too strong, and I apologise for that. I'll admit I'm a bit war-weary from the constant complaining and bickering. However I do still stand by the point that people put the man on a pedestal and treat him as if he could do no wrong - when in reality a great deal of the issues with the system do stem from the man himself. But aye, above all else the stall in Heresy now is clearly a mixture of factors.

 

As far as the wider scene goes - it's never really died out around here. We have strong representation in the West Midlands (with numerous Facebook groups and hobby groups in FLGS') despite the lack of support over the last year or so. I see Heresy operating much like Mordheim currently; which has immense community-driven support, although it admittedly does benefit from near-constant input from one of the original creators.

 

All aside, my only major gripe is channels like Outer Circle and Race for Terra seem to be pushing more of a negative narrative in the last year or so, rather than focusing on the positive aspects of the community and what they are doing to keep the hobby alive.

Make sure not to miss my weekly negative narrative video tonight!

Edited April 2, 2021 by Lovecraft0110

[Hungry Nostraman Lizard]

Honestly i all depends on how they want the game to go from here.  As for "core" units in plastic i think the below list would cover the majority of what people would want.

 

all armour marks as tactical boxes

 

Assault marine upgrade kit (jump packs, running legs, arms etc) for mkII and Mk4 (covers most armour marks)

 

Breachers

 

Deimos rhino and varients

 

Sicarian with resin upgrades for turrets.

 

Boxnought

 

New contemptor

 

Recon marines in recon armour

 

bikes

 

jetbikes

 

javalin speeder with resin weapon kits

 

multipart praetor/consol kit

 

mkII landraider

 

move FW resin stuff to characters, bigger kits, and upgrade kits.

 

Oh god that plastic Contemptor might as well be binned and resculpted. Who decided to make a walker "piloted" by transhumans that are faster than the average human eye can track to be absolutely static? Of course, model as you wish - but people who copy the plastic pose with their resin contemptors... let's just say it's a pet peeve. 

 

Those are all solid suggestions. I'd be ridiculously excited for Deimos predators. I'm sitting on six now, but I could easily make that armored breakthrough be less of a hit to the wallet with plastics...

 

I'd broadly agree with the above list, but given how popular destroyers are from a thematic point of view, I could see a full MkIV Destroyer /Assault Marine plastic dual kit being a good shout

That's right, I forget that GW's new modus operandi is dual kits! That would be swell, but because this is GW we're talking about, we'd probably need to buy 2 or 3 boxes of it to outfit a full Destroyer squad of 10 with jump packs and launchers. Not that that's a bad thing, because bodies can be kitbashed, assuming they follow the old GW approach of /torso/leg/arm/arm/head slicing approach.

[Mogsam]

I don't understand why people make static contemptors! It's got so much movement in its posing.

[MARK0SIAN]

Honestly i all depends on how they want the game to go from here. As for "core" units in plastic i think the below list would cover the majority of what people would want.

 

all armour marks as tactical boxes

 

Assault marine upgrade kit (jump packs, running legs, arms etc) for mkII and Mk4 (covers most armour marks)

 

Breachers

 

Deimos rhino and varients

 

Sicarian with resin upgrades for turrets.

 

Boxnought

 

New contemptor

 

Recon marines in recon armour

 

bikes

 

jetbikes

 

javalin speeder with resin weapon kits

 

multipart praetor/consol kit

 

mkII landraider

 

move FW resin stuff to characters, bigger kits, and upgrade kits.

Sounds good as a list, I’d include destroyers as others have said and also a plastic Spartan. In terms of size they’re not much bigger than a land raider and the transport capacity means everyone is probably going to want at least one.

 

As for contemptors, I’ve genuinely never understood why the plastic ones can’t be made as poseable as the resin ones, just copy the resin kit in plastic, maybe with a few notches here and there to aid assembly.

Edited April 2, 2021 by MARK0SIAN

[Indefragable]

I would imagine Assault Marines could be bundled with Destroyers, right? Basically give options for both right hadn't and left hand pistols and then you can either have a dude with two pistols or a pistol and chainsword (could also work to make Despoiler squads)......but I also know there's business or mold reasons why they don't do that sort of thing more often. 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I would imagine Assault Marines could be bundled with Destroyers, right? Basically give options for both right hadn't and left hand pistols and then you can either have a dude with two pistols or a pistol and chainsword (could also work to make Despoiler squads)......but I also know there's business or mold reasons why they don't do that sort of thing more often. 

 

additionally, destroyer's hardened armour actually has some different detailing to normal MkIV - it's less noticeable on the jump-pack ones 'cause they use the same torsos as the assault marines, but the forearms & shins have extra plating, as well as different helmets (plus some smaller details here and there), so a dual kit would probably have a bit more complexity than just weapon swaps depending on how true to the original resin kit they wanted to be

[No Foes Remain]

So leakycheese has put up a video regarding the stock codes that GW use for all their products, to which his recent FW purchases have been under a different code as to what the HH stuff used to be. Nothing is certain, they could have just started to re-do product codes and that is all but adds room for possibilities.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Just checked what stuff I have, most is 01 (so 40k) but Book 9 is 30.

Edited April 3, 2021 by No Foes Remain

[Marshal Vespasian]

Now that the new wh quest is up for preorder it should be time for another online preview soonish.

Maybe theyll loose a word or two about the future of the heresy.

[Blood-worm's Master]

To be perfectly frank people need to get over the Alan Bligh fetishisation that's been circulating for the last decade - it's borderline creepy, and harkens back to the days when Tuomas Pirinen and Rick Priestley were being unceremoniously shoved on a pedestal by the community and treated as greatest thing to ever happen to the hobby. I highly doubt Alan would be happy with how people use his name to slander other designers without a second thought.

 

 

Lead time for a plastic release from GW is still years, per WarhammerTV interviews. GW models don’t go from Master to Product with just mold making in between. There’s months where the tool makers and engineers layout the sprue first, then machine the mold, then installation and production came begin.

 

This isn't strictly true. The shortest turn-around from design to release was six months, which was the Possessed replacement iirc.

 

Kinda offtopic but does anyone know how much shorter is the time for books (100 pages or so hardbacks, like codices or Specialist Games books)?

 

Now that the new wh quest is up for preorder it should be time for another online preview soonish.

Maybe theyll loose a word or two about the future of the heresy.

Hope so too - I feel like the WHC article about Dimi's army was spurred by the whole "Heresy 2.0" rumour, Valrak's video about it etc.

Maybe someone finally noticed how hungry for any news the community is as a whole.

[No Foes Remain]

One thing I did notice about Dimi's army, he had kneeling Mk2 marines. There weren't any kneeling Mk2 models were there? So were they 3d printed?

Edited April 3, 2021 by No Foes Remain

[Cadmus Tyro]

One thing I did notice about Dimi's army, he had kneeling Mk2 marines. There weren't any kneeling Mk2 models were there? So were they 3d printed?

The old heavy support squad MKii kits had a set of kneeling legs (the ones designed to work with the shoulder carried heavy weapons). I found it quite odd they chose to feature so many photos of OOP MKii in that WC post.....

 

 

Cadmus

[Indefragable]

So leakycheese has put up a video regarding the stock codes that GW use for all their products, to which his recent FW purchases have been under a different code as to what the HH stuff used to be. Nothing is certain, they could have just started to re-do product codes and that is all but adds room for possibilities.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Just checked what stuff I have, most is 01 (so 40k) but Book 9 is 30.

Part of me (a huge part) wants this to be true and a sign that some big HH change for the better is coming.

 

...another part of me kinda doesn’t want it to be try because it’s the perfect encapsulation of this moment in time, the past year:

 

Being so stir crazy you go back and analyze the UPC codes on your hundreds of purchases of space fantasy wargaming miniatures.

 

(And probably INSTEAD of actually painting your backlog you know is sitting there)

[MARK0SIAN]

 

 

To be perfectly frank people need to get over the Alan Bligh fetishisation that's been circulating for the last decade - it's borderline creepy, and harkens back to the days when Tuomas Pirinen and Rick Priestley were being unceremoniously shoved on a pedestal by the community and treated as greatest thing to ever happen to the hobby. I highly doubt Alan would be happy with how people use his name to slander other designers without a second thought.

 

 

 

Lead time for a plastic release from GW is still years, per WarhammerTV interviews. GW models don’t go from Master to Product with just mold making in between. There’s months where the tool makers and engineers layout the sprue first, then machine the mold, then installation and production came begin.

This isn't strictly true. The shortest turn-around from design to release was six months, which was the Possessed replacement iirc.

Kinda offtopic but does anyone know how much shorter is the time for books (100 pages or so hardbacks, like codices or Specialist Games books)?

The info for the chapter approved books that they used for the points changes with 8th had to be finalised at least 6 months in advance to have time for printing and shipping if that helps. It’s hard to imagine them writing and testing a book in anything less than 6 months at the very best so it’s at least a year but likely longer. Obviously if you don’t want a physical book it would be a bit quicker but most people would want a physical book I think.

[No Foes Remain]

 

One thing I did notice about Dimi's army, he had kneeling Mk2 marines. There weren't any kneeling Mk2 models were there? So were they 3d printed?

The old heavy support squad MKii kits had a set of kneeling legs (the ones designed to work with the shoulder carried heavy weapons). I found it quite odd they chose to feature so many photos of OOP MKii in that WC post.....

 

 

Cadmus

 

Ah I forgot about the heavy weapon squads, though I did think that they did look a bit thicker than the Mk2 of old.

[Astartes Consul]

Saw this floated on Facebook the other day, but I quite like the idea of Heresy getting a 'Loyalists' and 'Traitors' Red Book set like Adeptus Titanicus is getting - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/06/serve-the-emperor-with-rules-for-loyalist-legios-in-adeptus-titanicus/ 

 

 

That LeakyCheese video is fun and did give me quite a bit of hope. As anyone with experience working as part of or with a sales team will tell you, product codes don't just get changed for no reason. Although it could just as easily be that GW want to keep a closer eye on how Heresy does for general reporting and planning purposes, rather than because a new edition of Heresy is about to drop.

[sarabando]

Saw this floated on Facebook the other day, but I quite like the idea of Heresy getting a 'Loyalists' and 'Traitors' Red Book set like Adeptus Titanicus is getting - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/06/serve-the-emperor-with-rules-for-loyalist-legios-in-adeptus-titanicus/ 

 

 

That LeakyCheese video is fun and did give me quite a bit of hope. As anyone with experience working as part of or with a sales team will tell you, product codes don't just get changed for no reason. Although it could just as easily be that GW want to keep a closer eye on how Heresy does for general reporting and planning purposes, rather than because a new edition of Heresy is about to drop.

id like a generic loyalist/traitor list that can be built into non standard factions

[Gorgoff]

Saw this floated on Facebook the other day, but I quite like the idea of Heresy getting a 'Loyalists' and 'Traitors' Red Book set like Adeptus Titanicus is getting - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/06/serve-the-emperor-with-rules-for-loyalist-legios-in-adeptus-titanicus/

 

 

That LeakyCheese video is fun and did give me quite a bit of hope. As anyone with experience working as part of or with a sales team will tell you, product codes don't just get changed for no reason. Although it could just as easily be that GW want to keep a closer eye on how Heresy does for general reporting and planning purposes, rather than because a new edition of Heresy is about to drop.

Since most legions hat loyal and traitor elements I wonder how that would work?

[WrathOfTheLion]

 

Saw this floated on Facebook the other day, but I quite like the idea of Heresy getting a 'Loyalists' and 'Traitors' Red Book set like Adeptus Titanicus is getting - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/06/serve-the-emperor-with-rules-for-loyalist-legios-in-adeptus-titanicus/

 

 

That LeakyCheese video is fun and did give me quite a bit of hope. As anyone with experience working as part of or with a sales team will tell you, product codes don't just get changed for no reason. Although it could just as easily be that GW want to keep a closer eye on how Heresy does for general reporting and planning purposes, rather than because a new edition of Heresy is about to drop.

Since most legions hat loyal and traitor elements I wonder how that would work?

 

I think it would just a convenient way to split the legions up into more than one book as compared to one giant book.

 

As for the product codes, where there's smoke, there's fire. A lot of things are going on, all converging around the same time. There's 2E rumors, product codes redone, massive reboxing/weird NLA of large amounts of the catalog, communication elements have begun again on WarCom after half a year of radio silence, all of the announced miniatures have been released, etc.