Warhawk by Chris Wraight

[Aramis K]

Superb

 

Best of the series for me, easily one of the best of the Heresy.

 

The writing is strong, and I liked the chapter transitions, the repetitions, and the tempo of the whole thing, the balance of plot lines.

[mc warhammer]

 

Honestly, it's pretty much impossible for the Khan to actually be permanently dead - especially after Dark Imperium. There were references to Jaghatai post-Siege, like during Guilliman's dying moments after getting chopped by Fulgrim:

They mourn me already, he realised. I am dead. I cannot die now, not now. There is too much to do. Too much, too much. What will Russ do without me, or the Khan? Too much…

This clearly implies that the Khan survives, and it survived the pre-Godblight editing intact. On top of that, we have the whole Godblight-resurrection-thing going on, and shorts teasing that the Emperor might have been able to "fix" Ferrus. I think it's safe to say that at worst, the Emperor/Malcador will be fetching Jaghatai's soul and binding it back into his body in a similar style - after all, the Emperor's still got his whole aegis thing going on. If he can keep Daemons out, to the point of banishing Magnus from his throneroom the moment he gives himself to Tzeentch completely, he should also be able to keep a soul inside - although the Lion's Gate is outside the shield, so this might not work as easily in this instance.

 

I'm still betting on this being effectively a fake-out that allows the team to take the Khan out of active duty, while allowing him to be there for Dorn's return from the Vengeful Spirit anyway. Primarchs don't tend to stay down for possibly months, unless they die or get banished. They had to do something to give the Loyalists a big loss, and weaken them enough to rush the schedule.

i'm fully expecting another resurrection...which back in the day i would have argued 40k wasn't fond of but we've had enough now that it's a thing.

 

as a tangent though, does anyone remember ADB saying he suggested the khan as a possible death during the siege, one he thought could happen without changing the course of the lore overall?

 

weirdly, i found the quote by accident. posting it here as a sort of interesting bit of trivia in light of both warhawk and praetorian of dorn

 

from 2016, ADB responding to someone suggesting the heresy could kill off a few more primarchs than was previously established.

 

 

For sure. I mean, I'd be down with that. An event like, say, killing off one of the primarchs whose fate is barely mentioned or is plainly apocryphal / mythological in nature is the kind of thing that's not a fundamental change to the setting itself, so it doesn't make me knee-jerk in discomfort. It's not something that will resonate through the galaxy for 10,000 years and shift the axis of 40K.

 

I don't need it, obviously, but depending on circumstances, presentation - and crucially, the primarch in question - that'd slide right past my itch-o-meter without a scratch. The Khan? Sure, knock yourself out. One of the Alphariuses? Absolutely, go nuts.

[Noserenda]

Finished it up and loved it, went to look at the maps online and really really imagined Collosi and Lions gate spaceport were further apart but they are nearly touching on the maps! Does make the sally forth a bit less impressive tbh :D 

[Sothalor]

Finished it up and loved it, went to look at the maps online and really really imagined Collosi and Lions gate spaceport were further apart but they are nearly touching on the maps! Does make the sally forth a bit less impressive tbh

 

Re-examine the scale on those maps. Look at the relative distance between Lion's Gate Spaceport and Mercury Wall compared to Lion's Gate and Colossi.

 

Legio Mortis disembarked at Lion's Gate and advanced on Mercury Wall. Per Mortis, by the time they were detected (presumably at least a little ways out from Lion's Gate), estimated distance to Mercury Wall was 150 kilometers.

 

I haven't done pixel-accurate measuring, and there's always room for artistic inexactitude, but just eyeballing it, if the maps are decently accurate/representative, Colossi can't be less than... 100? 120? kilometers from Lion's Gate Spaceport.

 

That... actually makes it more impressive to me. That's 100 klicks of utterly devastated urban terrain where the enemy has almost total superiority on the ground and in the air, to be followed by an assault against what is, for all intents and purposes, a heavily fortified vertical city.

[Petitioner's City]

More importantly, maps are always incorrect compared to the three dimensional nature of the world - and don't need to be accurate either to geography to communicate information in other, more allusive ways :)

[drooling blood]

Not Chris's best work. I gave up reading it just after the charge started and not sure if bother to finish it. Lots of mustache twirling going on. But thats been going on the last few books.

Khan will live, Sangy who just got a bit strangled wont.

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's like...typhus and Horus. Both are basically puppets of daemons and are kicked out of the story very fast. The rest of the death guard are extremely languid and not trying to be evil at all.

[grailkeeper]

I enjoyed this.

 

It made the White Scars lengthy trudge in Mortis even more pointless. He could have just found a vehicle and powered over in no time. That story line added nothing to Mortis for me, and had very little impact on this book. I had thought it might be building something bigger but it didn't.

[Skalpynock]

Quick question, finished it. Someone remind me what happened with Skar Hei? I remember him meeting up with Khârn and don’t recall him after that.

His fate is mentioned in

Hidden Content

Two Metaphysical Blades, as one of the many slain by Valdor at the Siege.

 

 

Finished the book yesterday, a fantastic read. While I loved the Solar Wars and Saturnine, I would rate Warhawk higher for the sheer emotional poignance of it — and I say that despite having never read the previous instalments of the Scars arc!

 

Wraight's take on the fall of the Fourteenth, already foreshadowed in Terminus, is a pleasant alternative to The Buried Dagger. Mortarion's characterisation, until now described as pure delusion, is given much needed agency, and all the delusion given to the book's other antagonist: Erebus, who at this point deserves a mustache to twirl.

 

Hidden Content

I won't get into too much opinion about either duels, others have already exposed good thoughts on them. But there is one aspect I have not yet read of them: how both these duels are won by sheer inhumanity, be it Mortarion's unability to comprehend the idea that the Khan has nothing to lose, or Sigismund's denial of any brotherhood he may have known with Khârn.

 

The sheer exhaustion of months of warfare is showing throughout the book, with even Dorn entirely baffled at suffering what are, to the reader, the symptoms of basic sleep deprivation.

 

As stated in the afterword, this book marks the very point the Imperium becomes its 40k incarnation. Sigismund has gone from First Captain of the Imperial Fists to described, if I didn't read it wrong, in yellowless plate; but the shift is in mentality, really. No pity for the innocent, no remorse for those he once called brothers, no fear of what he is becoming. Keeler's discussion with Loken is scary, with her beginning the series are rather idealistic, but having by now grown into a fanatical warlord.

 

The Perpetuals subplot was pretty good, if completely uneventful. Their respective conspiracies are not clear, but it's good seeing non-combattants occasionally.

 

Erda being killed by Erebus was weird. Well written, but weird, like tying loose ends with a plasma torch.

 

Archeta's insight into the cultural split within the XVI was interesting. At that point, with neither Curze nor Alpharius having shown up, and Perturabo recently left, Abaddon is the last leader intent on chaosless victory, but even his leverage doesn't counteract his legion's gradual fall.

 

The weakest plot thread to me has to be Basillio Fo, who serves mostly as a plot device to show even Valdor has come to acting on his own individuality. And even that was written decently!

 

Assorted notes and interesting tidbits:

- Shiban telling his warriors that they entered the siege as the Brothers of the Storm, but shall leave it as its Lords, pretty much confirms he is bound to found the Storm Lords chapter

- The Leman Russ tank sucks

- Malcador's Chosen wear power armour

- Tsolmon Khan shows up. He doesn't do much beyond naysmithing, but FW characters showing up in BL books is always cool.

- Skarr-Hei shows up. The fact that I remembered him from Two Metaphysical Blades is weird.

- Jangsai Khan's brotherhood is stated as the Iron Axes. Considering the use of the axe as symbol for several latter-foundings WS successors, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up important post-siege.

- Jaghatai will make it, but I wouldn't be against him not. I love plot twists, and "There will always be a Great Khan" cannot just but said lightly.

[jaxom]

 

Hidden Content

 

As stated in the afterword, this book marks the very point the Imperium becomes its 40k incarnation. Sigismund has gone from First Captain of the Imperial Fists to described, if I didn't read it wrong, in yellowless plate; but the shift is in mentality, really. No pity for the innocent, no remorse for those he once called brothers, no fear of what he is becoming. Keeler's discussion with Loken is scary, with her beginning the series are rather idealistic, but having by now grown into a fanatical warlord.

 

The Perpetuals subplot was pretty good, if completely uneventful. Their respective conspiracies are not clear, but it's good seeing non-combattants occasionally.

 

Erda being killed by Erebus was weird. Well written, but weird, like tying loose ends with a plasma torch.

 

 

Hidden Content

I see the two as related. Erda gives a character in direct contrast to the Emperor, working in more subtle ways with her power and surrounding herself with totems of the quiet moments that make humanity human. Erda's reluctance to engage directly, to instead be patient and subtle, cannot stand against things like blind faith, fanaticism, raw hatred... the brutal powers of 40k which overwhelm an possibility of nuanced thinking. We see this paralleled with the Imperium and the Traitors, as you noted.

I see this as a parallel to Valdor: Birth of the Imperium. Those who wanted to trust in the nuance of law and the Imperial Truth were outmatched by those who put blind (secular) faith in the Emperor, the man-with-a-plan. As an aside, it didn't help that the Imperium was never the end goal the Emperor presented it as.

 

The Perpetual plot is still ongoing. It's a lot of getting characters were they need to be. The narrative pay off will hopefully be worth it (I have feeling it's tied to Maloghurst, Russ's spear, and the eventual Vengeful Spirit confrontation).

[Preliminary Bombardment]

I'd quite like it if the following characters also get murdered by Erebus:

 

Keeler, maybe just after she's had an epiphany and regained her faith in humanity

Sindermann, just after he's written his Magnus Opus

Katsuhiro, immediately after the siege miraculously survived

Malcador, who actually survived being on the Golden throne and says "I can't believe I made it!" Before being stabbed

[Sothalor]

Wraight's afterword makes explicit they're putting their spin on previous sources and material.

 

It makes me wonder how they're going to twist the "Emperor couldn't bring himself to strike Horus down", and what part the Perpetuals might play in that.

 

 

I bet they're going to reveal that Horus is now also a perpetual, empowered by the Chaos gods, and the Emperor literally can't strike him down, as in Horus doesn't stay dead anymore.

 

Cue the arrival of the motley crew of arcane significance or whatever.

 

Not gonna lie, I kinda want to see something like that happen just to witness the rage aneurysms here.

[Knockagh]

Read this. Wasn’t my fav instalment. Still feel the books are trying to do too much. Far too many plot lines and some getting all the attention. Lots of times I find myself getting very excited over a story only for it to stop and not return for ages and then only for a short time.

The perpetuals journey is massive overkill but this isn’t unique to Warhawk. I still love the perpetuals storyline but I feel it’s not really being exploited that well.the exception there is Erda who is awesome. I would have loved it if her plotline had been dealt with in a separate novella. It deserved it. Nice to see Katsuhiro again. The Basilio Fo story is ace, again could have been shoved off into a novella. I’m sure this series won’t be the last we will hear of him. The retaking of the space port was exciting and of course Chris handled the primarch grudge match well as expected.

Delighted to see Khârn get his deserved as well.

 

All in all a good read but just too busy, I think. Can’t see it getting easier either.

 

Still feel some key siege stories have been let go (Emperors Children hello anybody???) but I suppose just like the physical books I can’t have everything I want

[Fedor]

I don't see how the agency given to Mortarion in this regarding the becalming makes him seem any less deluded?

 

Between ignoring them for most of the series, Swallow's rushed (and overly trusting of Typhon's blatant shadiness) depiction of the becalming in Buried Dagger, and this attempt at a variation of "he knew all along", the Death Guard's background has not been done justice for me. We've ended up with a muddled compromise, no thanks to McNeill throwing a wrench into things with their bizarre actions during Vengeful Spirit.

 

The old codex and index astartes was a simple setup and a perfectly fine story.  Nurgle comes to collect and uses the Death Guard's greatest strength, doctrines and Mortarion's love of his sons to break them in nicely ironic fashion. I just wish we had ended up with a good, no extra bull:cuss portrayal of it, especially as Wraight's overall take on the legion and even Swallow's work on Mortarion's character on Barbarus are/were both good.

[Fedor]

Wraight's afterword makes explicit they're putting their spin on previous sources and material.

 

It makes me wonder how they're going to twist the "Emperor couldn't bring himself to strike Horus down", and what part the Perpetuals might play in that.

 

 

I bet they're going to reveal that Horus is now also a perpetual, empowered by the Chaos gods, and the Emperor literally can't strike him down, as in Horus doesn't stay dead anymore.

 

Cue the arrival of the motley crew of arcane significance or whatever.

 

Not gonna lie, I kinda want to see something like that happen just to witness the rage aneurysms here.

 

Considering the way the series has portrayed both, the Emperor holding back against Horus is a plot point that really has to be largely altered imo.

 

Anything as long as the Sanguinius killing Horus and having to be reluctantly put down theories don't come to pass.

[Sothalor]

I don't see how the agency given to Mortarion in this regarding the becalming makes him seem any less deluded?

 

Between ignoring them for most of the series, Swallow's rushed (and overly trusting of Typhon's blatant shadiness) depiction of the becalming in Buried Dagger, and this attempt at a variation of "he knew all along", the Death Guard's background has not been done justice for me. We've ended up with a muddled compromise, no thanks to McNeill throwing a wrench into things with their bizarre actions during Vengeful Spirit.

 

The old codex and index astartes was a simple setup and a perfectly fine story.  Nurgle comes to collect and uses the Death Guard's greatest strength, doctrines and Mortarion's love of his sons to break them in nicely ironic fashion. I just wish we had ended up with a good, no extra bull:cuss portrayal of it, especially as Wraight's overall take on the legion and even Swallow's work on Mortarion's character on Barbarus are/were both good.

 

I don't think the point is that Mortarion is less deluded via his actions; it's that Mortarion made a Faustian bargain, inviting damnation in because he believes he can still get the better end of the deal.

 

If anything he's more deluded - Mortarion no longer had the horror forced upon him, it's his own actions, choices, and hubris that led to that point.

[jaxom]

 

Considering the way the series has portrayed both, the Emperor holding back against Horus is a plot point that really has to be largely altered imo.

 

Anything as long as the Sanguinius killing Horus and having to be reluctantly put down theories don't come to pass.

 

 

I've never put this up in B&C discussions because I was worried it may somehow make it not happen:

 

Massive spoilers for Wolfspear and Slaves to Darkness

Hidden Content

I think it all comes down to Russ's spear and Maloghurst's sacrifice. The Emperor gave Russ the spear early on in their relationship, saying it was tied to Russ's wyrd, and then the Emperor (through Malcador) insisted Russ take it with him when he went to hunt Horus. 

 

The spear makes anyone wounded by it face all the actions and consequences of their life. It effectively split Horus's psyche into two: Warmaster-Horus and Lupercal-Horus. I don't think the Emperor knew this would happen, exactly, but suspected that the spear would create  a schism in Horus's pysche. The Emperor could take advantage of such a schism in any eventual willpower-based confrontation.

 

However, the spear was too effective. Horus ended up in a coma, again, and Maloghurst had to go on a psychic journey to try to get Horus free. To do so, Maloghurst had to murder Lupercal-Horus, who in addition to representing Horus's will to be master of his own destiny, also represented his sense of brotherhood, love for his sons, and connections to others.

 

When Sanguinius and the Emperor make their appeals to Horus, they're really trying to address Lupercal, but Lupercal is already dead. This is particularly significant for the Emperor, because he was expecting the opposite, that Lupercal-Horus would be empowered by the attack from Russ's spear. He's fighting with significantly flawed information and that gives an edge to Horus when they engage each other in the warp as part of their direct conflict. The Emperor's a step behind and can't win, but he goes down swinging. A seriously wounded Horus gloats as the Emperor hangs on to a sliver of life.

 

In the end, it's Ollanius Pious, with the Athame, in the Vengeful Spirit throne room who's the real killer of Horus.

[63-19]

That sounds cool but in Misbegotten Horus says something to the affect of "all hope is lost" and goes over how he laments that he won't be able to rule the Imperium he helped to build if he wins. He'll rule an Imperium with broken values and a demoralized populace. Just from that little snippet I'm guessing a small part of Lupercal-Horus still exists despite Maloghurst killing it. 

[Redrandy93]

Folks this book has impacted me more than any other in the series. After the Khan's Battle with Mortarion and the immediate aftermath I actually had tears running down my eyes!

The scene of the primarch dead hit me harder than anything else in the Horus Heresy series so far.

I enjoyed this book and look forward to the next one..

 

The Emperor Protects!

Edited November 14, 2021 by Kelborn

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Considering the way the series has portrayed both, the Emperor holding back against Horus is a plot point that really has to be largely altered imo.

 

Anything as long as the Sanguinius killing Horus and having to be reluctantly put down theories don't come to pass.

 

 

I've never put this up in B&C discussions because I was worried it may somehow make it not happen:

 

Massive spoilers for Wolfspear and Slaves to Darkness

Hidden Content

I think it all comes down to Russ's spear and Maloghurst's sacrifice. The Emperor gave Russ the spear early on in their relationship, saying it was tied to Russ's wyrd, and then the Emperor (through Malcador) insisted Russ take it with him when he went to hunt Horus. 

 

The spear makes anyone wounded by it face all the actions and consequences of their life. It effectively split Horus's psyche into two: Warmaster-Horus and Lupercal-Horus. I don't think the Emperor knew this would happen, exactly, but suspected that the spear would create  a schism in Horus's pysche. The Emperor could take advantage of such a schism in any eventual willpower-based confrontation.

 

However, the spear was too effective. Horus ended up in a coma, again, and Maloghurst had to go on a psychic journey to try to get Horus free. To do so, Maloghurst had to murder Lupercal-Horus, who in addition to representing Horus's will to be master of his own destiny, also represented his sense of brotherhood, love for his sons, and connections to others.

 

When Sanguinius and the Emperor make their appeals to Horus, they're really trying to address Lupercal, but Lupercal is already dead. This is particularly significant for the Emperor, because he was expecting the opposite, that Lupercal-Horus would be empowered by the attack from Russ's spear. He's fighting with significantly flawed information and that gives an edge to Horus when they engage each other in the warp as part of their direct conflict. The Emperor's a step behind and can't win, but he goes down swinging. A seriously wounded Horus gloats as the Emperor hangs on to a sliver of life.

 

In the end, it's Ollanius Pious, with the Athame, in the Vengeful Spirit throne room who's the real killer of Horus.

Oh no, Buddy. Ollanius isn’t killing Horus. He’s killing the Emperor.

[mc warhammer]

just finished this, i liked it but weirdly, i didn't love it.

 

i don't have much to add that hasn't been discussed here, though I think the

Khan's read on Mortarion and subsequent getting under his skin was brilliant

Edited November 21, 2021 by mc warhammer

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

God, the Khan was so effing annoying in this book. It was very obvious that Wraight is a huge White Scars fan with the way he portrayed them.

A normal non psychic primarch fighting a newly minted Daemon Primarch with psychic powers, of Nurgle no less, should have been a completely one sided fight in Mortarion's favor, but Wraight had to throw in the Khan's always mean spirited and short sighted jabs and make that fight have a totally unrealistic outcome. The Perpetuals still serve no point, in my opinion and should have never been invented and the normal humans get far too much focus. Also, why is Loken still alive at this point? He's just some rando loyalist SoH captain yet he's miraculously survived fights and situations, that frankly, he shouldn't have. I did enjoy however, what they did with Keeler and Sigismund showing what the Imperium will eventually devolve to.....a testament to humanity's capacity for ignorance and blind hatred.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Kelborn

[SkimaskMohawk]

The fight was one sided.

There was no point the Khan wasnt getting bodied in it, but primarchs are just really hard to kill. It's nothing new; Robute survived vacuum helmet less, lorgar ate plasma blast guns and evisceration, angron has multiple tunneling trophies, etc...The only time they actually die is from beheading and whatever curze does to Vulkan; if we're to believe khan is actually dead, them he's the first to go without that qualifier.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Kelborn

[mc warhammer]

yeah, agreed the khan was

absolutely wrecked. it didn't read as overpowering him: i mean, if anything in the 30k imperium arsenal is going to be able to go up against a daemon prince with some hope of even pulling a draw...it's a primarch.

 

and the khan smack talking mortarion was psychological. it's used in sport all the time to give you the edge over your opponent. the khan knows he needs everything in his arsenal against morty to offset him.

 

contrast with their first fight where it was veiled in sadness. the khan isn't petty just for the lols.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Kelborn

[Petitioner's City]

God, the Khan was so effing annoying in this book. It was very obvious that Wraight is a huge White Scars fan with the way he portrayed them.

A normal non psychic primarch fighting a newly minted Daemon Primarch with psychic powers, of Nurgle no less, should have been a completely one sided fight in Mortarion's favor, but Wraight had to throw in the Khan's always mean spirited and short sighted jabs and make that fight have a totally unrealistic outcome. The Perpetuals still serve no point, in my opinion and should have never been invented and the normal humans get far too much focus. Also, why is Loken still alive at this point? He's just some rando loyalist SoH captain yet he's miraculously survived fights and situations, that frankly, he shouldn't have. I did enjoy however, what they did with Keeler and Sigismund showing what the Imperium will eventually devolve to.....a testament to humanity's capacity for ignorance and blind hatred.