Tau Wishing listing for 9th, why not?

[chapter master 454]

So with how the current 9th edition codices have been going, I am rather hopeful for the future of the best faction in the game (fight me...from way over there where you can't charge me).

A lot of the new codices have been not just been "nerf the strong, buff the weak and tinker with other things" they have been overall good adjustments to factions that feel strong and fun to look at and theory craft with. Game play on the table I cannot say for myself but from what I gather in the little bits and pieces, it is overall positive (a few hiccups but nothing major). The general trend they are going with is bleeding power out of the factions most overpowered aspects or just in general overused assets and bringing those units in line with being good and very usable, but not removing kneecaps while the rest of the faction's units all gain reason to exist and perform.

 

In the terms of Tau...well we don't exactly have much do we? Kind of struggling everywhere you look, we have good stuff but it all feels lacklustre. So lets do some random speculation of what we might get.

 

So lets throw my wildest card out there:

Pulse Blasters gaining damage as range shortens. So instead of only be 1 wound at all ranges, it goes up to a massive 3 wounds once at 5". A wild speculation but hey, its a fun thought.

 

Another aspect is I hope to see Kauyon and Mont'Ka become a game-long aspect, not a one turn aura. Possibly even being part of the army building aspect where certain units can be Kauyon, some are Mont'Ka and some are able to be ether. If you have a faction where you have only Mont'Ka or Kauyon, you gain a benefit relating to that aspect. Kauyon maybe has a more long term game-plan while Mont'Ka is all about aggression.

 

What are some of your wants, other than to be fun to play.

[Guest Triszin]

im really curious as to how both IG and tau will be updated for 9th.

 

I hope the TAU become more versatile, I'd like to see everything be capable

[chapter master 454]

To be honest, my wildest wishlist is giving tau SOME melee. Like I am talking Melee based crisis suits and even maybe a melee version of the riptide. I mean one of the problems that Tau have is the fact that their damage output is tied directly to one phase, shooting. You can make a case also for the enemy charge phase but not sure how you would count that.

 

While it is a defining trait of Tau being universally bad at melee, that should exclude them from taking part in it as that is somewhere about a third of the game. Some armies supplement weaker shooting with other elements like Melee or in select cases psychic powers. While the IG aren't melee monsters they aren't just "charge and win", they can and do have some meat in punching. Not calling it great but they certainly aren't defenceless. Hitting in melee on 4s I suppose helps.

 

To me, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive that the iconic crisis suits are equipped with close range weaponry but yet are near complete jokes in melee (despite being death guard level of defence, they lack any real offence). Lets be real, Tau are heavily inspired by Anime mecha and some of the most iconic suits wield super awesome melee weapons. Not saying Tau should suddenly be carving a bloody swathe through orks but when the only dude in the entire faction to have a sword is kind of never using said sword because he has no-one that shares his love of giving the sharp end of metal to enemies, kind of feels silly.

 

Would also finally give us decent looking mecha units that wield big swords and spears that aren't trying REALLY hard to not look like a baby walker. I mean, the visual of Paragon warsuits dueling off with crisis suits using fusion blades or some other suitably tau weapon would look awesome (and their stats aren't that far apart really), or having a Melee riptide standing down a daemon prince or trygon. I mean if we are going with that Mecha Motif why not really lean into it proper.

 

Also, want to point out the complete daftness of the lore relating to Tau and being incompetent at melee. I mean, the Fire caste were the hunters, the muscular guys who would have the brawn and ability to fight. That compounded by the idea that Tau have continuously had issues with close ranged combat in lore, it baffles me why they don't think about giving some melee training. Maybe make breachers have better weapon skill for the next codex, really sell them as the "we get close and personal".

 

To be fair, the Tau Empire is actually a faction that could rival space marines in terms of size of unit options in the codex. Much like how Genestealers have broodbrothers, Tau have the alien auxiliaries which do include humans (known as Gue'Vesa). While there is sinister undertones relating to this for some, most times the Tau seem fairly happy to accept those willing to join the Empire and "seem" to treat them fairly well. I mean, we have the startide nexus lot get seriously reprimanded and the commander dishonoured massively for the mass execution of ALL Alien Auxiliaries. Not saying they aren't be manipulated but to be honest, picking between the Tau Empire or the Imperium is really just picking what you say in battle; ether saying greater good or for the emperor. Both are pretty much the same concept. Could be interesting to see Tau get their hands on STCs in lore and show what they can really do, certainly would make the mechanicus livid.

 

It is a faction with a lot of room and promise with a fairly intriguing bit of lore and the trap of being "the good guys" before you learn of Etherals being brutal thought police like individuals who can tell a fire warrior to kill themselves and they will do it, even against their own will (their body still obeys, their mind is screaming). Also then there is the oddity of why was a Culexus assassin sent after Aun'Va. Kind of strange really, considering an Eversor would of worked or even a Callidus. Assassins aren't picked randomly for their missions, there is some underlying reason so that is a plot thread that maybe hints the imperium shadier sects have learned something about how the Etherals work.

[Sarvis]

What are people hoping for model-wise in the future?

 

I personally really dislike the crisis suit models, and I’d love for them to get an update

[Waking Dreamer]

For one thing, all the prototype upgrades - should become the standard default for the weapon profiles.

[Waking Dreamer]

All my Tau are painted FSE so I don't have comprehensive experience with other Tau Septs, but for improved FSE rules I prepared this last year:

 

[chapter master 454]

Interesting snapshot approach to what you may want.

 

I like the idea with how you handled the melee weapons though I assume the Dawn Blade would be purely left on Farsight's character sheet. Limited attacks but they gain re-roll bonuses against their intended targets, helps offset the issue of it missing or not wounding by giving it much stronger chances.

 

The concept of Tau Melee is something that needs to be explored. It is a lost chance within the codex as a lot of units only interact in the shooting phase and that just feels bad. While their melee should be weak overall as an army, it shouldn't be non-existent (Kroot don't count...they're the meat shields).

[sitnam]

What are people hoping for model-wise in the future?

 

I personally really dislike the crisis suit models, and I’d love for them to get an update

I hope GW remembers that Tau were supposed to be the alien federation archetype, and not just space mecha. I'd start a "Tau" army in a heartbeat if it can be full of Kroot, Vespid, and other various aliens.

[jarms48]

 

I hope GW remembers that Tau were supposed to be the alien federation archetype, and not just space mecha. I'd start a "Tau" army in a heartbeat if it can be full of Kroot, Vespid, and other various aliens.

 

 

100% this. There needs to be more love for all the alien auxiliaries. Kroot need to be either more survivable or more damaging, with perhaps Shapers giving them an assortment of selectable buffs. They've shaped them to adapt favourable traits. 

 

Vespid need more unit types. A character Vespid that could allow some interaction between nearby Vespid units and Tau rules. Some melee focused deep striking Vespid could be cool, maybe their helmet has turned off their pain inhibiters and turned them berserk.

 

Let's bring in the Nicassar to give Tau some psychic defence.

 

Bring in some kind of Brood Brother style rules for Tau to take Imperial Guard units in their codex as Gue'vesa. 

 

Lastly Demiurg to bring back some of those old Squat vibes. 

[chapter master 454]

I mean, there is some element of darker meaning behind the whole various alien auxiliaries, the truth is murky and shrouded. Tau aren't sqeaky clean "good" guys, they are doing evil stuff...just they are doing level 10 rookie evil stuff while Chaos, Imperium and various other Xenos are just testing out various end game level 100 evil stuff. Like the Imperium is currently trialing some new leader guy who tried to start his own empire, Chaos is currently having a re-branding campaign while Eldar are petitioning for new poses for their warriors to strike.

 

Serious though, I do feel the concept of Auxiliaries is something that could be explored. Kroot are by themselves an entire species which should expand into more than just what they have. To some extent the Tau Empire codex could be best designed as a compilation of various mini-dexes for the Auxiliaries. You have the main Tau Section but then you have the other sections for Kroot ether integrated into a detachment or as a detachment all by itself. Vespid could be a bit messy but a bit of fun could be had with expanding them.

The real meat however I feel would be in Tau getting their hands on things like Imperial Guard Vehicles and getting to grips with how easy it is to make them and maintain them. To some extents could even be fun to have Leman Russ variants that are Tau Empire specific, where we see this chassis take various main guns of the Tau Empire and use it as their main gun. Possibly even have Gue'Vesa Guardsmen who can still use Orders with pulse weaponry and 4+ save. However that would come at serious points tax, not to mention I would think some form of restriction would be needed to keep them in line.

Then again...Fire Warriors of Strike and Breacher variants need to get some meat behind them. Maybe just not allow the Guard Gue'Vesa access to markerlights, they can't use them for one reason or another and no Greater Good. Basically they are Imperial Guard but with good guns, they are what the Imperial Guard could be or maybe were in Humanity's past.

[Guest Triszin]

I don't want Tau them selves to get melee.

 

Kroot and their coalitions should fill melee.

 

Perhaps add a signature system.

 

-emergency thrusters, roll a d6, on a nat 6, move the model up to 4" (must maintain coherency,) and all of its weapons are treated as pistol 1

[INKS]

I know that people hate drone spam but drones are my favorite models. So an all drone army or some way of getting as many drones as possible. With how this went with 8th I doubt that is going to happen but I can hope. 

[Guest Triszin]

I think the only issue with drones are when 1 tiny drone absorbs mega shots. Instead of individual wounds.

 

 

I do hope we can get a devilfish drone mini factory. That can replenish 6 drones a turn. (Marker light or carbine only)

[AenarIT]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

With that in mind, here’s a couple of wishes I have for our next codex.

 

First assumption: no new model excluding MAYBE a character (Farsight is the prime candidate as he’s “immortal” in the lore, while the other named characters still in resin are probably long dead of old age by now).

With no new funky units (auxiliaries, melee suits, …), it’s just rules:

- Nerf Drones. The current Saviour Protocols rule sucks, it's unfun to play with and against. No idea on how it could be changed, but at least make it work on a 3+ or 4+ roll instead.

- Nerf the free overwatch. It just slows the game down and encourages the castle gameplay that everyone hates. Let units overwatch together but only using the generic stratagem.

- Buff VEHICLES. Make Drone rules work on them as well as on BATTLESUITS.

- Buff Crisis suits mobility. 8" movement is a joke for a supposedly super fast battlesuit, make it 10" or 12".

- Buff JETPACK battlesuit units. Let them have a rule that allows you to 1) Shoot after Fall back or 2) move X" in the Charge phase. Can't do both in the same turn, so you either disengage from combat and shoot or you move again after shooting.

- BS 3+ on Crisis suits and bigger stuff.

- Rework Markerlights. In 7th they worked just fine, with 9th ed restrictions on +1/-1 To Hit modifiers the old rule would be fine.

 

And obviously price everything accordingly in terms of points.

 

A whole new auxiliaries line with a dedicated codex is definitely in my dreams but I’m not holding out the smallest sliver of hope for that.

Edited June 18, 2021 by AenarIT

[Waking Dreamer]

I'm digging the battle suit changes.

 

How far does a T5 Primaris Inceptor move, 10"? That should be fine for Crisis Suits and Drones. Now they'd be moving as fast as Cavalry too. Having the option for them to use either their 7E jump-shoot-jump (6"), or their 8E Fall back and shoot should be standard as well.

 

BS3+ WS4+ for battle suits naturally, with FSE crisis suits changing their veteran strat to upgrade one of said units to WS3+ and +1AP on melee attacks before the battle seems lore immersive.

 

Also, their needs to be a way for Fire warriors, Drones and Pathfinders to get AP-1on their S5 guns. Something like a higher level on the Markerlight table.

[Guest Triszin]

I do believe we have a high chance of getting Kai's in a ghost keel. As well as plastic farsight.

 

An odd thing I've thought on is, moving marker lights to the psykic/command phase.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Triszin

[chapter master 454]

Would like to see the battlesuits across the board improved to where they should be, as in BS3+ across a majority of the army with only units like pathfinders and fire warriors being the un-upgraded ones as any member who uses those vehicles or battlesuits are well trained. Also double pot shots at the stormsurge which are supposed to have the BEST of the BEST from hammerhead school piloting them...somehow BS4+ (while hammerheads are BS3+).

 

Markerlights also need to become a nice extra that feels good to put on things rather than the utter requirement that they are now to even feel like you have fair shooting.

 

...still want my melee suits though...

 

Oh and can we get some Tau lore where they are actually on the front foot for once. Getting tired of "and then the Imperium put effort in and nearly killed the Tau Empire...again!". Tau are a faction where comically they don't go mega-sized robots and instead keep it to the smaller scale we see, and for the big game hunting they opt for bringing just the gun and not an entire monster to fight it. Think Sniper Riptide, Supremacy Railgun. They don't go bigger units, they just put bigger guns on what they already have!

[chapter master 454]

So, currently want to throw some extra gas on this here fire because with the new ork stuff soon and some leaks showing the Ork Kulturs, it seems like a fairly consistent theme of how Sub-Faction Benefits have been going.

 

With Tau, our Tenets are what I would call "The fair of 8th", they weren't obscene and by no means outright back, they were fair however within 8th you were busted or nothing. We are now only seeing Farsight enclaves because of their boosted Tenet they have which before hand was (again) fair but that doesn't cut mustard. Now with their added benefit along with the "hidden" third benefit ("gee Far Sight, How come you have 2 commanders in a detachment?"), they have become the de facto faction of tau (other elements like 9th edition are there but they were already rumbling up a little before then).

 

Meanwhile all the other Sept tenets remain ether benefit + small benefit or only have 1 benefit total. So what would the future tenets look like for tau with the current trend? These are going to be my shots in the wind for the sake of it but let me know your thoughts.

 

Tau: Can elect to "Hold Steady" or "Set to Defend" even when not on any terrain or on terrain without the "defensible" keyword. For every two units that fire at an enemy unit, that enemy unit gains 1 markerlight.

(I want to give tau the feel of being the Defenders and their natural idea of coming together to overcome things).

 

Vior'La: May advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalty. When unit with this tenet advances, change all rapid fire weapons type to assault. When targeting an enemy unit within 12", that enemy unit counts as have 1 additional markerlight than it actually does.

(Adding the Far Sight Enclave addendum ability here because it make lore sense. I am a sucker for narrative/mechanical storytelling)

 

Sa'Cea: +1 Leadership. units never count as under half strength for attrition tests. Each unit that fires may re-roll 1 hit roll unless they are within 12" of the enemy unit, in which case they may re-roll any and/or all hit rolls.

(want to take their sub-par warlord trait, add it to their tenet and give them a reason to get close however unlike Vior'La they lack the movement boost).

 

Bork'An: Add 6" to the range of all Rapid Fire and Heavy type weapons. Rapid Fire weapons always count as being within half range of their target. Heavy weapons with the Blast keyword always count units as having 6 or more models within their unit for purposes of determining number of shots.

(these are the tech boys of Tau. They should feel unfair at range and make their guns brutal. Maybe a hard lean here but still, wishlisting my dear Shas'Os)

 

Dal'Yth: As long as the unit does have the Monster, Titanic or Vehicle keyword gain the following: they count as in light cover when outside of 12" of the enemy unit attacking them. When in any terrain, models ignore movement penalties and gain an additional +1 to their saving throw.

(not sure what to add here if anything. I mean, kind of potent in some ways I suppose but I may of misread the room on this one).

 

Far'Sight: As is, it works for them and feels thematic. Maybe I would argue pushing the wounding re-roll out to 12" as well but that would be it.

 

Some are out there but what are the thoughts?

[Guest Triszin]

Marker lights.

A. Should be fired in command phase. Roll to hit/each one and see how many you have.

 

B. Every roll of a 5+ generates 1 marker light dice. You can use the dice like miracle dice from sisters.

[Waking Dreamer]

What do people think of Commander Farsight getting a 2+ armour save and A5?

 

A normal Crisis suit can be upgraded to the 2+ save with Iridium Armour, so it would make sense that Farsight who likes to lead from the front - and get stuck into combat, be retrofitted with better armour. Or since his Dawn Blade and High-intensity Plasma rifle are one-of-a-kind relics, his remaining wargear the shield generator, should be better as well i.e. +1sv/4++ (Tau's version of a stormshield).

[thesilverback]

My wish along has been Xeno auxiliaries for each of the different troop types. 

[chapter master 454]

My wish along has been Xeno auxiliaries for each of the different troop types. 

 

heh, good luck. By all accounts all the other races the Tau have bumped into should have their own ability to form armies, even if "incomplete" ones. Vespid could be cool to have various flying insect dudes going around, maybe have their thing be Insect theme; Hercules beetle like thing they use for melee and equipped with tau weapons for range options.

 

To be fair, Tau Auxiliaries could have their own Codex plus 3 Expansion books by themselves.

 

Would like to see an expansion of Special Characters though and expansion of the HQs even just a little, things like Cadre Fireblades being able to chose which weapon they take (Rifle, Carbine, Blaster) and have that inform what kind of Fireblade they are for benefits.

While I'm here: Was Shadowsun always Tau Sept? I remember her being Vior'La for some reason in the past.

[Guest Triszin]

Kroot:

T3,s4, w1, 2a ap-1,d1

 

Kroot shaper

Give him the similar rules mutagen doc for gsc.

 

 

Marker lights

A. Treat them like miracle dice

Or

B. Marker lights are used in psykic or command phase, for Tau it's "tech phase".

 

Add a pistol weapon/defence system.

[AenarIT]

I'd settle for markerlights to be like in 7th ed, one use only tokens that expire as soon as a unit benefits from them.

With the same effects as in 7th, more or less. Now that to hit modifiers are capped at +/-1, they would be balanced. 
Then you could have some strats that allow units to pool their shooting phase together as if they were a single unit and benefit from the same set of markers, a bit like the hunter cadre worked in 7th. 
 

[jarms48]

 

To be fair, Tau Auxiliaries could have their own Codex plus 3 Expansion books by themselves.

 

 

I would love to see this. Kroot could be expanded to at least a dozen datasheets alone. Vespid could be flushed out a bit more. Then we could introduce Demiurg, Nicassar to give Tau some psyker defence, even Gue'vesa rules which could be as simple as something similar to Brood Brothers.