Kill-Team New Edition Box

[Rhavien]

I wonder how this customization they talk about pans out for all the older kits. Surely both Killteams that come with the box have a plethora of options how you can build them, but what about all the other kits that will be available? Will they bother to make rules for optional grenades, pouches and knifes? Or will we have to wait till a new dedicated Killteam will be released?

[Subtleknife]

I hope they carry some of the ideas across into 40k. I'm really interested how this kill team turns out. The change has meant my mate who didn't like the last one is now considering trying this edition so that is a positive sign in my eyes.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Rules are looking good, although it's hard to be excited for the movement shapes until I get to try them out in person.  They had to know that a change like that would cause a stir. 

[Burni]

If I end up playing a decent amount of this, I’ll probably end up with some acrylic rulers of the different sizes like I had for X-wing years ago, marked with the shapes. I imagine Etsy will be full of them soon.

[BluegrassGamer]

I wonder how this customization they talk about pans out for all the older kits. Surely both Killteams that come with the box have a plethora of options how you can build them, but what about all the other kits that will be available? Will they bother to make rules for optional grenades, pouches and knifes? Or will we have to wait till a new dedicated Killteam will be released?

I think, as far as the Space Marines and Astra Militarum go, a single box of infantry provide enough parts/bits to kit out just about of the Kill Team specialist we’ve seen so far. And any specialists that are missing - like the Medic specialist - can be fixed by picking up a few bits or a single model.

 

The Vanguard Infiltrators box, for example, allow to build an Infiltrator Comms specialist (the comms array) and Incursor Demo specialist (the arm carrying the haywire mine) but it lacks the Helix Adept’s gauntlet. So, you’d need to order the Helix Adept from the Shadowspear box from somewhere. The firstborn Tactical Squad and Cadian squads can be kitted out with Medic specialist by bits ordering either the Apothecary or Medic bits from their command box.

[LameBeard]

 

 

That said I really think GW needs to start giving us some video examples of how some this stuff works. Its just really abstract when you don't see the templates in action. They really should have battle reports and example games that we can watch before a product launches.

I think we may see a how to play video for this but it will be closer to launch.

 

Steve

Yeah we had Becca Scott teach us Warcry so could be something like that in the works.

 

Colour-coded shapes though? Was that really easier than saying 3 inches (or whatever), and the shapes aren’t even on the templates? And is the implication that all weapons have either infinite range or 6”? So flamer must be 6”. Meltagun too? Throwing a grenade?

 

Sorry for the question mark barrage, I guess I can just wait for Becca Scott to tell me.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

That said I really think GW needs to start giving us some video examples of how some this stuff works. Its just really abstract when you don't see the templates in action. They really should have battle reports and example games that we can watch before a product launches.

I think we may see a how to play video for this but it will be closer to launch.

 

Steve

 

 

Oh I agree I just think it should be a lot sooner in the process. I don't have a lot of time, so if they want to sell me a new game they need to show it off more than what they do. How to play videos are nice but show a battle report.

 

Guess I'm just a little frustrated cause the of the day one dlc trend that continued with Sisters, and the lack of effort with the last chapter approved. So I want them to raise their game.

[Elzender]

@Lamebeard, it seems the shapes are engraved on the templates (second pic of this article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/14/your-games-of-kill-team-are-going-to-be-electrifyingly-good-thanks-to-the-new-bespoke-datacards/) , but it's true that they could probably use having the corresponding colour painted on them to make them easier to pick up on; I did have to double check the other day because I remember I had the same doubt as you.

[LameBeard]

@Lamebeard, it seems the shapes are engraved on the templates (second pic of this article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/14/your-games-of-kill-team-are-going-to-be-electrifyingly-good-thanks-to-the-new-bespoke-datacards/) , but it's true that they could probably use having the corresponding colour painted on them to make them easier to pick up on; I did have to double check the other day because I remember I had the same doubt as you.

You are more observant than me! Presumably these templates will be on a sprue like Titanicus so easy to paint - that will help at least! Thanks.

[SirJyo]

New shooting and saving rules have a kind of SW legion vibe to me. I've only seen it in passing.

But the critical hits and saves are interesting.

[Mandragola]

The system does seem like black stone fortress, and I think an RPG I read but never played. It seems like a good idea to me. It’s more granular, which suits a skirmish system. The old thing of flesh wounds was pretty random (which this might also be) and that led to weird results sometimes.

[Arkhanist]

The reason for the shapes I guess is for more flexibility when degrading performance as you lose wounds, so you lose 1 shape in movement etc - i.e. the action movie trope of still limping along with a bullet wound. So people don't have to add and subtract and measure on the fly, just use the templates. Existing measuring templates would be easy to convert just by painting on the appropriate shape per length.

 

Shape distances are shown used in multiples for movement, so no reason that can't apply for weapon ranges, i.e. 2x 6" for something longer than a flamer but less than infinite.

[LameBeard]

Okaaay - I feel something still a bit strange here; it’s really not easier to say 2 red pentagon* rather than 12”. But it’s no biggie - these kind of templates already exist, say, by Green Stuff World, so maybe GW wanted a slice of the pie, or maybe they are following the fashion. Maybe wargamers around the world prefer templates to tape measures. Personally I love my old GW tape measure because I use it off the battlefield for all sorts of stuff - it goes to 3m!

 

*or was it hexagon?

[Rhavien]

I think it's a gimmick. Maybe it's more convenient to use a template when fighting on a dense board with lots of models close to each other, but it's nothing that could be solved with regular inches. If a circle is 3" and you would loose as an example one circle of movement going through a swamp then just write you loose 3" movement. But whatever. Looking forward to paint the symbols on the templates to match colors with the books. We'll, IF I'm getting the new KT in the end.

[Arkhanist]

Personally I'll probably be translating to inches, but I'm old school like that. If you look at lots of modern rule sets, this emphasis on fixed length templates and references to things via shape iconography instead of numbers is everywhere these days.

 

I dunno if it's because ludology studies have shown it's easier for new people to pick up, or it's just a design trend, but using distance + a tape measure is definitely a lot less common these days.

 

even GW have done the combat gauge thing (this one was in the Dominion box), and they're widely available from 3rd parties.

 

[Rik Lightstar]

There are a few interesting ways this can work

 

If when you move you place the "ruler" touching the base and can then place the model at the other end of it. Because then you're adding the base size to each move, so 3x 2 inch moves when you have a 1 inch base is actually a 9 inch move. Larger base models may get a smaller move allowance but in reality move further.

 

If each move has to be in a straight line then having more shorter moves is far more versatile than one long one.

 

Terrain may reduce all moves through/over it to a certain range, that would only be for the single move over it, so if you have three moves of circle and one of those is reduced to a square then that's less impact than your entire move being halved.

 

If you get to perform your action(s) in between moves then three moves is better than one longer one.

 

Rik

[Rik Lightstar]

Personally I'll probably be translating to inches, but I'm old school like that. If you look at lots of modern rule sets, this emphasis on fixed length templates and references to things via shape iconography instead of numbers is everywhere these days.

 

I dunno if it's because ludology studies have shown it's easier for new people to pick up, or it's just a design trend, but using distance + a tape measure is definitely a lot less common these days.

 

even GW have done the combat gauge thing (this one was in the Dominion box), and they're widely available from 3rd parties.

 

 

 

I suspect it's because not every country uses the same measurements, once you make it abstract you don't have to convert it to appeal to different markets, especially as no conversion is likely to ever be accurate so different countries end up with slightly differing ranges.

 

Using shapes to identify the ranges means that same ruler is valid in countries that use different numerals and alphabets, if they had number or letter associations they'd not be relevant in some places and they'd need to produce different rulers for them whereas geometric shapes are universal.

 

Rik

[TrawlingCleaner]

We don't (widely) use Inches in the UK, I don't think it's to do with that at all. You can make a game with inches, as they have been for decades, and still broadly appeal to a wide market. The symbols are still using inches measurements so it's not like they're totally abstract.

 

We'll have to see what these symbols feel like in game once we've got the book. Too much of what they show off is without any context on how the wider game plays. Who knows maybe the shapes make total sense and are easy to use with modifiers etc

[LameBeard]

I realise that inches will seem obscure in more than half the world, but the data sheets still have Western-Arabic numerals for most stats, which I believe are still widely recognised in places with different numerals, like Japan. Maybe this is a way of getting away from Imperial/Metric issue.

[Master Sheol]

It’s been said elsewhere but why couldn’t the 3 be a triangle and the 6 be a hexagon?…….

Because GW is not Sony :P

[Joe]

Melee is up today; was hoping we'd see Ork kit as an example, but we got the Veteran Guard instead. Ah well.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Joe

[Ammonius]

This part about movement has me warming to it:

 

"This new system makes navigating terrain much easier – the cost to climb a ladder or vault a barricade is usually ◯, so most troops can move 4″ in total if they also cleared an obstacle during their turn. Using the nifty gauges speeds everything up massively, as there’s no need for fiddly measuring of exact vertical distances.

 

Distances in Kill Team are ultimately still measured in inches, so you’re very welcome to stick to your trusty tape measure if you prefer."

[lansalt]

It’s been said elsewhere but why couldn’t the 3 be a triangle and the 6 be a hexagon?…….

Seriously. Is like this was done in purpose by an evil game designer to trigger OCD in people. Or maybe some weird scheme where GW can copyright the combat gauge linking inches to polygons with different number of sides.

[Master Sheol]

This part about movement has me warming to it:

 

"This new system makes navigating terrain much easier – the cost to climb a ladder or vault a barricade is usually ◯, so most troops can move 4″ in total if they also cleared an obstacle during their turn. Using the nifty gauges speeds everything up massively, as there’s no need for fiddly measuring of exact vertical distances.

 

Distances in Kill Team are ultimately still measured in inches, so you’re very welcome to stick to your trusty tape measure if you prefer."

GW likes to makes things complicated without any pratical reason

Models in KT move now multiples of 2" (circle shape) and they use 1 circle to climb up a ladder or to pass an obstacle

The problem with using the gauge is when you are not at perfect 2" From the ladder/obstacle

There will Be always problems to measure the remaining movement after you passer the obstacle

 

A good old tape measure is always the Best solution

[Jukkiz]

 

These mini measuring sticks are almost godsend in kill team