Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Jayrich131]

Yeah combat patrol are generally more points value but I do want the limited edition stuff as a treat for waiting so long for this. I'll be getting at least 1 combat patrol if/when we get it too.

[Brother Talarian]

Sadly you're probably right and it will be the same sprues of 6 and 4, with 1 that can be built as sword brethren. Sadly this means you'll need 2 1/2 boxes to make an actual crusader squad.

 

As for having 2 lots of crusaders in the launch box I reeeally hope this is the case because it makes it a lot more feasible. I mean if we compare to snaggas.

2 X characters (EC + Marshal ~ Zodgrodd + Nob in Squig)

Elite/Vehicle (Redemptor ~ Squighog Boyz)

Troops (Half Crusader Squad =/= Full Snaggas Boyz Squad)

And if you compare to the sisters of Battle then it's even more underwhelming as they had 24 models, from 6 different units)

I mean I'll be buying it no matter what but I would like to see a full crusader squad in there or a group of Sword Brethren or something to fill it out a bit. Alternatively they could just give it to us a bit cheaper than the Snaggas and Sisters boxes and that would be fine too so we can add on our own units.

 

Edit: There's also the possibility crusader squads change from 20 man squads to 10, I sure hope not but we haven't actually seen the new rules yet.

Why is 6/4 an issue? I believe a crusader squad is 5-20 models, no? So even if it’s a single box that would still == a crusader squad, would it not? Provided it remains 5-20. The 5 might be an issue… unless there’s a 2/2/1 split?

[Jayrich131]

6/4 is an issue because to get 10 Neophytes for a full squad of 20 you would need to buy 2 1/2 boxes. It would mean that there would be lots of people trying to get extra neophytes and being left with excess initiates. Also, currently there is a rule called 'paired combatants' that basically means you want to have at least as many neophytes in your squad as initiates. They might remove or edit this rule but as it stands it would not make sense to run a crusader squad of 1/5/4 SB/In/Neo

[Marshal Reinhard]

According to one of the rumors the full primaris crusader squad was 1 sb, 11 initiates, 8 neophytes. I guess not every single initiate takes a neo. Or that particular rumor is off.

 

EDIT: And doesn't paired combatants mean you need to have at least as many initiates as neophytes? (Or is that an older version of the rule?) It would still apply in that case.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Reinhard

[redmapa]

According go a rumor the full primaris crusader squad was 1 sb, 11 initiates, 8 neophytes. I guess not every single initiate takes a neo. Or that particular rumor is off

 

11 Initiates? Thats odd but thats also 2x of the Crusader kit that is rumored to have 6 power armored dudes so I guess it makes sense. 

[SirJyo]

Will paired combatants even be a thing? That's the old way of thinking.

From what I understand the way we play now is very different.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Anyone have any guesses as to what paints were used for the brass/copper on the new Initiate's chest icon? I have the recipe for the brass used on the BT Bladeguard painted by Max Faleij a while back, but that was much darker; I like the warmer, brighter color of the new one. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Maybe Balthazar gold?

[Cryptshadow]

Anyone have any guesses as to what paints were used for the brass/copper on the new Initiate's chest icon? I have the recipe for the brass used on the BT Bladeguard painted by Max Faleij a while back, but that was much darker; I like the warmer, brighter color of the new one.

It might be retriburor gold highlighted or like above said, baltgazar gold. That or the new metallic that came out with necrons i forget the name

[Jayrich131]

According to one of the rumors the full primaris crusader squad was 1 sb, 11 initiates, 8 neophytes. I guess not every single initiate takes a neo. Or that particular rumor is off.

 

EDIT: And doesn't paired combatants mean you need to have at least as many initiates as neophytes? (Or is that an older version of the rule?) It would still apply in that case.

Oh you're right. I've had that rule backwards the whole time. Shows how much use my crusader squad gets. Not sure about the 11 crusaders and 8 Neophytes thing though. It's always been our lore that they each have one neophyte they are responsible for

Edited August 26, 2021 by Jayrich131

[Sword Brother Adelard]

They may not ALL have one, that would be a lot of neophytes.

 

Assault Squad initiates for instance were banned from training neophytes at one point.

[Trignama]

The rumored squad make up is 1 sword bro, 11 initiates, 8 neophytes for the crusader squad if you want to max them out. Their minimum squad size will be 10 models at 6 initiates and 4 neophytes (I.E. these guys won't ride in impulsors lol)

Lore wise, this fits perfectly, as not every initiate in the chapter is constantly training a neophyte, so a few in the squad may not just have a squire atm. 

I personally believe that we will see 2 of these squads in the launch box, bringing the model count to 20+, which would be much more in line with the 2 other releases we have already seen. It is honestly the most reasonable line of thinking.

[RedFox]

I think auto boltrifles will become a very popular loadout for crusader squads, especially considering the "assault" synergy with the new flamer. The neophytes even seems to get the bolt carbines (assault 2) that the Reivers has and our doctrine also let us reroll advance moves now. This may be why it was hinted that we'd play different (not a CC loadout) Edited August 26, 2021 by RedFox

[Spinsanity]

I love how the 6/4 split could, thematically, represent one of the initiates having just been promoted up from neophite, leaving him and his previous mentor without a trainee of their own... There's some interesting modeling and fluff possibilities there

[Jayrich131]

I mean I just listened to the crusaders of dorn novel again and it specifically said equal number of initiates and Neophytes. I could understand that the number would vary from time to time as some die or get promoted but the feeling I got was that they would be replaced again by the next in line. I can't remember with novel it was but one I read a long time ago went into specific details about the process of recruiting them from the various worlds, the surgeries and tests that they had to pass before getting the black carapace etc (I think it might have been about Helbrecht as a neophyte, maybe) and it was my understanding that there are thousands and thousands of 'trainees' out there going through the process of being prepared for combat, then the Neophytes are the ones selected for their final training amongst the ranks. In my mind at the start of a crusade or a specific battle they would fill out any missing slots and balance the numbers to make it equal 10:10 again.

 

Flicking through the various novels it varies so I guess they can be unbalanced. I would still assume that at the start of a campaign they would assign 1 neophyte each and then over the course of the battles it would change.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Jayrich131

[LordValandil]

Maybe the extra initiates are one with special weapons, for example the flamer? Then it would be 10 man squad; 1 SB, 4 each of Initiates and Neophytes, then 1 Special Weapon. 20 man you get 3 Special weapons?

 

Edit; spelling!

Edited August 26, 2021 by LordValandil

[Marshal Reinhard]

An intercessor squad can get a single grenade launcher per 5 man. The sergeant can take sergeant options. Even the most bare bones interpretation of the rumor configuration blows that out of the water in terms of configurability. But it also means i temper my expectations accordingly.

 

And novels aren't really too relevant to a discussion on crunch rules.

 

I'm hoping for the best, but just keeping my expectations real.

[tvih]

I would not expect as many options as the classic crusader squad. Some rumors have stated we can swap between Heavy BP & Chainsword and Auto bolt rifle on initiates, and bolt carbines and shotguns on neohpytes, as well as that flamer and then "sergeant options" on the sword brother.

 

That's already a ton more customizability than any other primaris squad.

 

Oh, absolutely - I merely meant being able to have the two different base configurations at all, not so much any special upgrade weapon stuff.

[jaxom]

I wonder if it means losing access to Assault Intercessors or just that no one will take them.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I wonder if it means losing access to Assault Intercessors or just that no one will take them.

How many codex units, if any, have the other supplements lost access to?

 

I'm blanking a bit, but the only one I can think of is us and Witches?

[ChargingSoll]

 

I wonder if it means losing access to Assault Intercessors or just that no one will take them.

How many codex units, if any, have the other supplements lost access to?

 

I'm blanking a bit, but the only one I can think of is us and Witches?

Dark Angels can't have vanguard or sternguard veterans cause they have terminators instead. That it I think unless the Wolf's got one with the apothecary and chapian being combined.

[redmapa]

The DA thing about stern/vanguard vets has been a thing for years, they had access to company veterans and company veterans in terminator armor and the rest didnt lose access to other units as much as they have their own versions or those support characters gain the keyword respective to their army like an apothecary becoming a sanguinary priest in BA. 

 

I doubt we will lose units, I think it will be more likely that those units wont be able to get Neophytes and simply stay the same as they are now but you could just run them as Crusader squads without Neophytes (Unless Crusader squads HAVE to take Neophytes), none of my opponents have ever given me crap for running all my intercessors with assault bolters despite the fact some have rapid fire ones so a little more count as wont change much. 

[Medjugorje]

I am pretty sure that the new Primaris crusader squad is an addition. Not a "instead of..." take. 

 

Although I think that they will be better and all of us will take them instead of normal Marines.

[Tokugawa]

I wish GW give primaris Crusader reasonable rules, so BT players could use them confidently, not only by aesthetic reason.

 

Normal intercessor has stratagem to shoot twice; assault intercessor has stratagem to fight twice(though 2cp and seldom used). I wonder whether primaris crusaders get access to similar ability, or none.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Tokugawa

[redmapa]

Yeah its gonna interesting what they do with keywords or strats locked to certain units, I doubt GW wont do any sort of strats that interact withthese "new" units. Right now the only stratagem they get thats kind of unique to them is Smokescreen if you include Neophytes.