Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[Jayrich131]

I'm interested to see the points and wounds of the Neophytes. Do they make them significantly cheaper than initiates like they used to be so that it makes sense to take the full amount? Or do they perhaps give them 2W as they are somewhat primarised now to make them worth the point cost. At the moment 14 points/wound is not worth it, especially for such a weak profile, they just get obliterated by any cheap high-volume shooting. The neophyte on the codex cover appears to be quite heavily armoured so maybe they could get 2W?

[Tokugawa]

Rumor says they are 2W. If 1W that would be uber garbage, and ruin the whole fine detailed kit.

[Khornestar]

I think if they're still functionally equivalent to scouts joining a unit, they'll have however many wounds scouts have now. That's how relevant they are to my life :P.

 

Instead of being lazy I looked it up: 1 Wound. Contradicts rumor I guess, so we'll see.

[Medjugorje]

I am pretty sure that the new Primaris crusader squad is an addition. Not a "instead of..." take. 

 

Although I think that they will be better and all of us will take them instead of normal Marines.

I wanted to say "normal Intercessors/ Assault Intercessors"

[Sete]

I dont think Crusader squads will have the fight twice strat of the assault intercessor

[Medjugorje]

but then they must have a special ability for being worth it. 

GW will give them something for sure, not just the prefer style element i think.

[Sete]

I suppose we could have strats that apply to Crusader Squads like paired combatants, that might have slight changes. We gotta wait and see.

[Tokugawa]

Ironically, to make primaris crusader kits selling, the first thing GW need to do on rules is : nuke the 15pts classic crusader.

 

If cheaper older unit exist, it will obviously harm the sale of primaris crusaders.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Tokugawa

[WARMASTER_]

Ironically, to make primaris crusader kits selling, the first thing GW need to do on rules is : nuke the 15pts classic crusader.

 

If cheaper older unit exist, it will obviously harm the sale of primaris crusaders.

I honestly doubt that you’d be surprised how little most of the player base cares about rules or at least competitive play and just loves new gorgeous models

 

Especially after 16 ish years of waiting for some

[Medjugorje]

If they are trash on the table. I want 3 squads for fun games. If they are good (really good) maybe 6 ons.

[redmapa]

Even if all they have is chainswords and smokescreen then they will at least have have twice the attacks of the current crusader squad and a higher ceiling for attacks then Intercessors so more value for whatever buffs we get so if all they get is 20 max squad size, smokescreen and chainswords then I honestly think they have a niche to fill and then we are missing things like relics, litanies, stratagems, how will our unique characters change, how will our warlord traits change, etc. Because you can certainly have a mid tier unit that you can just pour buffs into and make it a cheaper alternative to a better but more expensive unit. 

[Medjugorje]

and access to Transhuman ph.

[Jayrich131]

To be honest if they were just the exact same as current crusader squad but with primaris Statline they'd be an easy pick. The extra base attack would be huge because that's the main reason crusaders don't get taken atm, 1A base is just not enough for a melee unit. The question is not if the crusaders will be worth the points but if the Neophytes will be worth the points. Will they make it so that it is better to take 10/10 or 12/8 whatever the system they make is than to take 2 squads of 10 crusaders? To do this Neophytes need to perform or add a significant stratagem that helps them perform.

[ChargingSoll]

I just realised the forge World venerable dread has a skeleton banner that looks alot like the rumour engine.

[Trignama]

To be honest if they were just the exact same as current crusader squad but with primaris Statline they'd be an easy pick. The extra base attack would be huge because that's the main reason crusaders don't get taken atm, 1A base is just not enough for a melee unit. The question is not if the crusaders will be worth the points but if the Neophytes will be worth the points. Will they make it so that it is better to take 10/10 or 12/8 whatever the system they make is than to take 2 squads of 10 crusaders? To do this Neophytes need to perform or add a significant stratagem that helps them perform.

I think the squad make up minimum was reported at 6/4. Meaning you would have to take crusaders in a minimum of a 10 man unit, 4 of which would HAVE to be neophytes, so good or bad, sounds like we will be stuck with them in our Crusader Squads going forward.

[Marshal Reinhard]

not like 5-man las plas would've ever been a thing... but yes I see the concern about what we do have to take and what it will be able to do

[Spinsanity]

I do kinda hope the neophytes do end up with 2 wounds and thus the same statline as the initiates (with the loadout being the differing factor), assuming they also have a 3+ phobos-like save; that way Assault (or not) Intercessor squads could be modelled to represent small, less than 10 men, or Impulsor-bound squads…

[Sete]

I do not think neos will have 3+ save.

Their armour is very similar to the old scout armour.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Sete

[Triszin]

I do not think neos will have 3+ save.

Their armour is very similar to the old scout armour.

it could be phobos with cloth/tabbards?

but the integrated power pack screams olde scouty, so you are likely right

[jaxom]

There’s been a design push to make Astartes armies into power armor armies (scouts to elites, limits on cultists, etc). It wouldn’t be too far out there for initiates to have 3+ and a more up-armored look compared to scouts.

[Jayrich131]

 

To be honest if they were just the exact same as current crusader squad but with primaris Statline they'd be an easy pick. The extra base attack would be huge because that's the main reason crusaders don't get taken atm, 1A base is just not enough for a melee unit. The question is not if the crusaders will be worth the points but if the Neophytes will be worth the points. Will they make it so that it is better to take 10/10 or 12/8 whatever the system they make is than to take 2 squads of 10 crusaders? To do this Neophytes need to perform or add a significant stratagem that helps them perform.

 

I think the squad make up minimum was reported at 6/4. Meaning you would have to take crusaders in a minimum of a 10 man unit, 4 of which would HAVE to be neophytes, so good or bad, sounds like we will be stuck with them in our Crusader Squads going forward.

Oh so people are thinking Neophytes will be mandatory in crusader squad? Now that is an interesting idea. I wonder then if that means there is a set ratio or anything from 6-12 initiates and 4-8 Neophytes. Then could you have 6 and 8 or do you need to have more Initiates than Neophytes? Raises a lot of questions. I wouldn't be disappointed to see neophytes become mandatory as it makes sense if they are going to specifically be a 'crusader' squad and not just a 'special looking intercessor squad'. But yeah, Crusader squads and Sword Brethren are the 2 items I have been interested in since before any of these rumours surfaced and they are still the 2 units I am most interested in seeing how they bring them into 9th. I'm excited for all the primaris HQs and other bits and pieces ofc but nowhere near as much as these 2 units.

[Brother Carpenter]

I just realised the forge World venerable dread has a skeleton banner that looks alot like the rumour engine.

Hmm thats a nice remark.i used mine as anobjective marker. Looks great.

[Brother Carpenter]

I always used neo's in crusader squads. Im a sucker for fluff even when it was meta unwise.

[tvih]

Hrm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that GW has been kinda moving away from mixed saves within a unit? Of course there are still exceptions such as the old Crusader Squad or some models being able to have a shield in a Vanguard or Assault Terminator squad, but overall I think 3+ "Primaris neophytes" aren't all that unlikely. Even based on how armored they do look in the art at least, it's not an impossibility... it's still heavier armor than normal human power armour most likely, and that gets a 3+ too. Could be 3+ but 1W, who knows - if that were to be the case, it'd at least be useful to take D2+ hits on the 1W models :P

 

Not that it's not a deal breaker either way, as long as the overall unit is sensible and badass-lookin'.

[Medjugorje]

I wish GW give primaris Crusader reasonable rules, so BT players could use them confidently, not only by aesthetic reason.

 

Normal intercessor has stratagem to shoot twice; assault intercessor has stratagem to fight twice(though 2cp and seldom used). I wonder whether primaris crusaders get access to similar ability, or none.

 

seldom used? Especially we as BT can use it with devout push in an exrem no other can do.

 

Devot push into a unit which where shot by whirlwind with fight last strat -> kill them -> consolidate 6" into next squad ->fight twice immedialty -> kill them and consolidate 6" again!!!