Black Templar Teaser and Rumors

[General Strike]

I think the Accept any Challenge is awesome. I'm not a competitive player at all, and my FLGS runs what they call the biggest "un-tournament" in the state, and I plan to play in the next one with Black Wave, baby.

[Tokugawa]

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

[JAG Templar]

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

I think you may be right. There is talk online of it being Chapter Tactic plus Super Doctrine plus Vows. I guess we will find out soon enough

[Tokugawa]

 

The wording of AAC says "gain the bonus of assault doctrine". And Abhor don't talk about doctrine at all. The vows are not our superdoctrine. They don't conflict with or obsolete the superdoctrine. If GW remove Knight of Sigismund, we will still get some army-wide buff in assault doctrine.

I think you may be right. There is talk online of it being Chapter Tactic plus Super Doctrine plus Vows. I guess we will find out soon enough

The DA superdoctrine also have multiple parts and functions, but the rules of every part clearly linked to doctrines.

 

Chapter tactics is printed in Codex:space marines, not the chapter book. That is how the 9th system like. Release of new chapter supplement doesn't change it.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tokugawa

[Tokugawa]

I am glad to see the "passions" part only get some minor and situational disadvantages. It don't have anything idiot fart like "must shoot the nearest unit" or "must declare charge to all enemy unit in x inches". So the disadvantages won't force Templars players to drink one potion of poison from 4 potions.

[BitsHammer]

I am glad to see the "passions" part only get some minor and situational disadvantages. It don't have anything idiot fart like "must shoot the nearest unit" or "must declare charge to all enemy unit in x inches". So the disadvantages won't force Templars players to drink one potion of poison from 4 potions.

You mean like how we used to get pulled out of cover thanks to one of our vows and then gunned down before we could engage?

Edited October 6, 2021 by Fulkes

[Acebaur]

I think our competitive brethren have over looked a couple of powerful applications of the Vows.

Firstly, you get to choose your Vow at the start of every game adding crazy tactical flexibility! I actually removed that from my homegrown rules for a while because I was worried it wasn’t balanced.

Secondly, AAC only kicks in once you’re in Engagaement Range. Your Terminators can rapid fire with their stormbolters in the Tactical doctrine then charge in and fight in the Assault doctrine. Our relics and stratagems couldn’t do that!

 

Edit: And no way this is our Super Doctrine. This is going to be our Inner Circle

 

No, Vows are our super doctrine. But we'll have 4 to choose from and a lot of flexibility with that

[Medjugorje]

 

I am glad to see the "passions" part only get some minor and situational disadvantages. It don't have anything idiot fart like "must shoot the nearest unit" or "must declare charge to all enemy unit in x inches". So the disadvantages won't force Templars players to drink one potion of poison from 4 potions.

You mean like how we used to get pulled out of cover thanks to one of our vows and then gunned down before we could engage?

 

at first. The old vow gives us much more bonus then the current AAC. Then the negativ passion not able to leave combat (fallback) is very hard.  In a lot of situations you want to fall back. 

 

And pulled out of cover and gunned down doesnt work in older edtions because the morale check which was made after each phase used to be after all enemy units have activated to shoot. So it was much more likely that the enemy got a charge when you were forced to move towards him. 

The biggest problem (without a chaplain) used to be a failed morale check and you had to fall back... sometimes out of the battlefield. 

[Tokugawa]

 

I watched some of John Lennon's games during the NOGT coverage over the weekend. He seemed to do well with them. I think AAC would have benefited his strategy. I can't find his exact list, but the earlier version of it he tested on Art of War did not have Crusader's Helm.

 

I think he got 7W-1L. BCP only updated to round4, but his list could be found there:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [105 PL, 1,997pts, -2CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

Apothecary [5 PL, 110pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Crusader's Helm

 

Cenobyte Servitors [1 PL, 18pts]

. 3x Cenobyte Servitor: 3x Close Combat Weapon

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain Grimaldus [5 PL, 95pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Litany of Hate

 

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 155pts]: Frontline Commander, Warlord

 

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [7 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Ancient Breviary, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

 

+ Troops +

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

. 4x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Sword Brother: 2x Astartes Chainsword

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

. 4x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Sword Brother: 2x Astartes Chainsword

 

Crusader Squad [5 PL, 75pts]

. 4x Initiate w/ Chainsword: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Sword Brother: 2x Astartes Chainsword

 

+ Elites +

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts]

. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield

. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 140pts]

. 3x Bladeguard Veteran: 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 3x Master-crafted power sword, 3x Storm Shield

. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

Company Veterans [3 PL, 44pts]

. Company Veteran: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield

. Company Veteran Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Boltgun

 

Terminator Assault Squad [18 PL, 390pts]

. Assault Terminator Sergeant

. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer

. 5x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 5x Storm shield, 5x Thunder hammer

. 4x Assault Terminator w/x2LC: 4x Lightning Claw (Pair)

 

Terminator Assault Squad [9 PL, 205pts]

. Assault Terminator Sergeant

. . Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield: Thunder hammer

. 3x Assault Terminator w/THSS: 3x Storm shield, 3x Thunder hammer

. Assault Terminator w/x2LC

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 300pts]: Jump Pack

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Storm shield

 

++ Total: [105 PL, -2CP, 1,997pts] ++

[Medjugorje]

Crusaderhelm is too good not to take. You need the addttional AP against Admech because they can ignore ap -2. And for that a good relic is always better for 1cp then spend 2cps

[Lemondish]

So for someone new to the Templar, is Knights of Sigismund no longer an active rule? Was the Index for 9th retired or something? Wouldn't that have been the oft mentioned super doctrine?

[redmapa]

So for someone new to the Templar, is Knights of Sigismund no longer an active rule? Was the Index for 9th retired or something? Wouldn't that have been the oft mentioned super doctrine?

 

The PDF will be retired when the codex arrives, as for Knights of Sigismund we dont really know whats gonna happen, Vows may be our superdoctrine or KoS might change. Personally I think Vows will be our version of Death Visions/Sagas/Raven-Deathwing and we will get a superdoctrine that hopefully isnt as lame as the current ones.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I mean, Implausible Nature just said, above that vows ARE our super doctrine.  Is that confirmed? (I can't remember if he said he was in on the playtesting and stuff).  Or is that just, like, you know, his opinion, man?

 

Obviously, Ace, I don't want and I'm not asking you to discuss anything that would get you in trouble.

[BayOkuz]

I watched some of John Lennon's games during the NOGT coverage over the weekend. He seemed to do well with them. I think AAC would have benefited his strategy. I can't find his exact list, but the earlier version of it he tested on Art of War did not have Crusader's Helm.

 

Where can I watch the games / see the list?

[Banjulhu]

If they are a super doctrine replacement then there is hopefully something bigger going on in the rest of the army mechanics because in a vacuum the choice of minor buff with draw back against the super doctrines of armies like Blood Angels and Dark Angels seems lacking.

Then again it might not matter. The Deathwatch have been doing ok without a normal super doctrine.

[jaxom]

 

 

I watched some of John Lennon's games during the NOGT coverage over the weekend. He seemed to do well with them. I think AAC would have benefited his strategy. I can't find his exact list, but the earlier version of it he tested on Art of War did not have Crusader's Helm.

Where can I watch the games / see the list?

I watched the games on Twitch.

[Blindhamster]

If they are a super doctrine replacement then there is hopefully something bigger going on in the rest of the army mechanics because in a vacuum the choice of minor buff with draw back against the super doctrines of armies like Blood Angels and Dark Angels seems lacking.

 

Then again it might not matter. The Deathwatch have been doing ok without a normal super doctrine.

How?

 

Blood angels super doctrine is +1 attack on the charge during assault doctrine.

 

How is accept any challenge not comparable? It’s effectively +1 attack any turn after the first AND army wide entry into assault doctrine for any unit that needs it all game, meaning you can afford to stay in tactical doctrine for 2 rounds and benefit from its shooting buffs without losing the combat buffs on the units where it actually matters, AND you have advantage over other chapters prior to then.

 

 

I find it baffling how negative people are about all this. I reckon you’ll keep knights of sigismund as your chapter tactic as well. Considering all the love and new stuff showered on BT right now, it is crazy how many downers there appear to be :/

 

Rumours said from the start that BT wouldn’t be OP to the level of DA but would still be top tier of the marine books, honestly already looks like it’s shaping up that way.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Blindhamster

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Yeah, I'm pretty perplexed as well. Even if we do lose KoS, it wasn't actually very good! 

[lash144]

It's just a bad rule from a competitive stand point.

 

It does not stack with shock assault and important combats are usually not prolonged anyway.

 

I hope the two remaining vows impress me more :)

[Blindhamster]

It means Bt still get +1 attack when other unique lose their charge bonuses too. (So vs DG for example)

[BitsHammer]

[Hit0k1ri]

Which parts of his armour are MkX? I can see only almost primaris-seized Firstborn. The mini’s cool, tho.

[Marshal Reinhard]

The model has zero primaris signifiers, but is big and chunky enough so as not to look out of place next to them

[BitsHammer]

Which parts of his armour are MkX? I can see only almost primaris-seized Firstborn. The mini’s cool, tho.

What part of the lore says that Primaris have to wear Mk X? They don't have a special black carapace. Plus you can put Primaris in the Armour Indomitus which pre-dates the Heresy so this is a non-arguement.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

That would make a great Techmarine head however.