9th Edition Thousand Sons Codex Game Feedback

[Xenith]

Quick report on last night's game here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265816-xeniths-chaos-hexfire/?p=5732511

[Mushkilla]

Quick report on last night's game here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265816-xeniths-chaos-hexfire/?p=5732511

 

Awesome write up! Thanks for sharing.

 

When I saw the terrain set up my heart sunk.

 

We play with variants of this: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/

 

Making it easier to stay safe the first turn. I guess a lot your opponents stuff ignored line of sight. Vengeance for Cadia is just brutal (doubt it will survive the new guard codex whenever that lands).

 

Any stand outs?

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, terrain could have been better but when I saw the Guard list I knew how the game would likely go. The lure of the big guns is strong, and can do good work early game - but as soon as your opponent closes without the troops to hold the line you have a bad time quickly. It's just a matter of how intact your forces are when they arrive...

[Mushkilla]

I like that you chose Psychic Interrogation as a secondary. I think it's a strong option for us. My only concern is scoring it turn one if you go first as it does require line of sight. Also a problem if you kill all their characters. The fact that you can make the action undeniable and score 15 with it makes it very tempting.

[Trokair]

Played three more crusade games tonight, all at 25 power. All three missions where wired/the forces we selected were unsuited to the mission and as a result all three games where not representative. For example in the third game my flamer Rubrics spent a turn shuffling around a ruin, advancing the other way, advancing back and then standing still. Oh well they denied points to the enemy that way.

 

I did try out a Predator Annihilator in two of the games, and it did well with its four lascannon shots, but in such small games it was probably overkill as I found myself mostly shooting at bikes and infantry.

 

Rubric squad with the extra range from Emperyic Guidance also did surprisingly well, being able to reach out that little bit further compared to a lot of enemies standard guns adds up over the course of a game.

[Xenith]

 

Quick report on last night's game here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/265816-xeniths-chaos-hexfire/?p=5732511

 

Awesome write up! Thanks for sharing.

 

When I saw the terrain set up my heart sunk.

 

We play with variants of this: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/

 

Making it easier to stay safe the first turn. I guess a lot your opponents stuff ignored line of sight. Vengeance for Cadia is just brutal (doubt it will survive the new guard codex whenever that lands).

 

Any stand outs?

 

 

I largely set the terrain up, so I thought it was ok, and wanted to get on with the game - I'd have preferred a bit more though. We also played on a 6x4 because why not - I think if it had been the 44x60 then the terrain would have been denser and more appropriate - I also wanted my opponent to have a fun game where he got to do stuff, and didn't just get Maulerfiended. That said, the manticore did much of the heavy lifting and that doesnt care for LOS. Warpflamer units are nasty. A flamer is weak, 4-5 is horrible, and they just cleaved through the flakk armour. I'll definitely be looking at using more than one. 

 

 

Indeed, terrain could have been better but when I saw the Guard list I knew how the game would likely go. The lure of the big guns is strong, and can do good work early game - but as soon as your opponent closes without the troops to hold the line you have a bad time quickly. It's just a matter of how intact your forces are when they arrive...

 

Yea, the powers were actuallypretty devastating to his troops - I think Baleful Devolution managed to drop 6MW on a guardsman unit - though through a lucky roll on 2D3. It could have just as easily been 2MW. 

 

I like that you chose Psychic Interrogation as a secondary. I think it's a strong option for us. My only concern is scoring it turn one if you go first as it does require line of sight. Also a problem if you kill all their characters. The fact that you can make the action undeniable and score 15 with it makes it very tempting.

 

Yea, it's a bit of a quandry. Killing stuff usually helps you win, but if you are efficient and kill characters, then this gets harder to do. Downsides are you have to give up a power unless you have the right upgrade, but it's an easy route to victory if you can get to the middle of the table - if there's a central objective it's a no brainer. I used the Infernal master as the psychic action monkey as he can only cast one, and the action doesnt interfere with his Pacts. In my game I only ended up getting this off once in T2, so was my worst performing secondary. Warp ritual might have been better, but we dont usually get to T5 in our games due to starting late.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Xenith

[Skerr]

I just got back from a 1000 point game vs Dark Angels at my local shop.

 

My opponent conceding on his second turn after my 2nd turn.

 

We played Shifting Fronts and he had no answer for the psychic power and shooting as I took control of the board and started closing him into a corner.

 

Risen Rubricae Flamersquad with spell boost and Twist of Fate support from the exalted made his bikes turn tail but the rest got erased turn 2 by the flamers after a 5 inch advance through terrain he attempted to go around.

 

My 2 rhinos with full loadouts were MVPs pumping shots and offering great screens. He used 2 units of termies to wipe out a 90 point rhino only to be left out in the open to be smited and shot off the board.

 

Wrath of Magnus and Mutated Landscape were easy secondaries. (It was just pointed out you can only take 1 of our secondaries so my mistake there.)

 

I ended up dropping the extra Exalted and going for 2 rhinos. I ran with 14 Cabal Points with the denial and extra mortals driving it home.

 

I used Cult of Time but the only model I lost was 1 rhino so it did not come up. Had we gone on to a longer game I am sure I would have used it.

 

I was also rolling hot on the damage. Another cool moment was when the SOT Sorcerer used the psychic dominion strat for denial support from a nearby Aspiring. Together, on a 3d6 denial, they rolled a 13 beating the 12 his psycher rolled. Cool moment!

 

My opponent said he had a good time playing against me and was really impressed with our new abilities.

 

I had fought this gentlemans Dark Angels before against my Custodes and found them a tough match up against them so I was a bit surprised how easily or unprepared he was. I knew winning against him would be in Psych and Shooting though he kept expressing how he wanted our termies to mix it up but they were cleared off before they could melee and honesty as great as SOTs are now I still see them, perhaps erringly, as a bully force or softening targets.

 

Really it was infantry weaponry along with smites that won the game. Also more than happy to see how the rhinos performed. I believe the extra points for full loadouts is worth it in most cases but milage varies.

 

Big shout out to the Cabal here for all the sharing of tips.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Skerr

[Umbros]

I just got back from a 1000 point game vs Dark Angels at my local shop.

 

My opponent conceding on his second turn after my 2nd turn.

 

We played Shifting Sands and he had no answer for the psychic power and shooting as I took control of the board and started closing him into a corner.

 

Risen Rubricae Flamersquad with spell boost and Twist of Fate support from the exalted made his bikes turn tail but the rest got erased turn 2 by the flamers.

 

My 2 rhinos with full loadouts were MVPs pumping shots and offering great screens. He used 2 units of termies to wipe out a 90 point rhino only to be left out in the open to be smited and shot off the board.

 

Wrath of Magnus and Mutated Landscape were easy secondaries.

 

I ended up dropping the extra Exalted and going for 2 rhinos. I ran with 14 Cabal Points with the denial and extra mortals driving it home.

 

My opponent said he had a good time playing against me and was really impressed with our new abilities.

 

Big shout out to the Cabal here for all the sharing of tips.

 

Don't forget you can only take one of the codex secondaries :)

[Skerr]

Ahh, blast and drat! Well at least this is a beginner league for folks with little to no xp and we expect mistakes. We have been doing that for a few months and this was the first time we used secondaries so good to know for next time. I am glad it would not have changed the outcome. Edited August 21, 2021 by Skerr

[Prot]

Well folks I wanted to do a much more in depth post, so this sucks, but I'm just so busy with work lately that I try to play in my spare time.

 

So with that said I just got two games in the past week. One against DG, one against Blood Angels!

 

The Blood Angels game was interesting. 

 

I went with 2 Cults: Main Battalion had Knowledge for the rerolls, which I only got off once. The other Patrol detachment was mostly Termies and goats with Cult of Time.

 

I tried a lot of extra Relics this time and one was on the Aspirng Rubric champ for the extra flamer.

 

My Rhino's actually as boring as they are did well. They hid a rubric squad, which inevitably got out of an exploding wreck, and set up a very nice play the next turn to burn some Bladeguard down after they lost their Invulns.

 

I also used my dual Soul Burner Decimator. He does actually kill a lot, but lacking the -1 damage AND not being Core and his cost is just really ugly. I played him very cagey but the second he was exposed, he was a super high priority target and got vaped in that turn.

 

The BA had turn 1 and used their cheezy secondary... that assault one. This one always gets me.... it's incredibly easy to get 4pts a turn out of this and it is so hard to defend. He actually uses a drop pod to try to get this on T1. I did block out T1 and he really tried to get in there with an ensuing assault from the pod, but I dropped our version of Auspex scan on him (which is very good) and I just annihilated that squad on the drop. (I try to plan for this against deep strike armies. We mayhave the best forewarning in the game now, especially with Termies).

 

I went back to my 10 may blob of Termies which proved very good. I think I got 2 back in the whole game. I just found that honestly I'm questioning Cult of Time. I note so often I get a "9" in a game on the termie squad which would allow me to get 1 back anyway. Some turns I used CoT, got a 9 and could have brought back 2! This is not something I expected when the codex came out, but it happens more than you'd think. 

 

The bad news is I was CP starved. I used so many relics, and detachments I started the game with 6 CP, and one turn of using the -1 damage on the Termies, and that's another 3 CP spent!

 

I didn't like that at all. We have so many good Strats.

 

Anyway my flamer squad finishes off the Blade guard, I ask my opponent if I charge Corbulo, is he any good at CC? He said no.... LOL! What a mistake! I charge him, bounce off, he has a relic and ends up with something like 7 attacks, hitting on 2's rerolling 1's (I think) and then they wound on 2+ at AP -3 (he's always in assault doctrine). Wow What a waste. I did this because I needed points so bad and thought this would be a way for me to climb into his zone and get an extra quarter to score 2 and be in his zone and force him to slow down his massed assaults.

 

In the following turns he deep striked (struck?) 3 Assault Bolt Inceptors, 3 Plasma Inceptors and a thunderhammer/shield smash captain. WOW did I take it hard here.... He made all 3 charges! One through a crater into my Rhino. I lost all Tzangors, a squad of Rubrics, the Rhino and now I was surrounded. Err, I mean I HAD HIM EXACTLY where I wanted him! (That's what I said at the time but I was filling my boots).

 

So here I am backed in... I had already spent an ungodly amount of time trying to shoot down his Redemptor Dread, and his Levaithan dread. All I managed to shoot down was the new Speeder with las/missiles with my now defunct Decimator, and Forgefiend.

 

How I want to love the Forgefiend. I don't understand it, but I've used 1 or 2 in every game and I completely feel underwhelmed by them every time. 

 

At this point I pull a long shot. I am getting hammered in points: BUT even so I have denied him center table for Oath of Moment every turn. Nevertheless by turn 3-4 he is up in score by 69 to 32.

 

I should back up here, my secodary was: that Mutate Landscape (psychic Action; 3 points per objective) We were on a 6 objective map). And I had quarters, and the last one which I never take with THousand Sons was "To the Last" which was my DP, Termies, and Ahriman. 

 

He had no Sorc so he chose Burn Witches, BA: Assault one (4 pts a turn), and Oath of Moment. (They can legally take this with a BA one.)

 

So back to my longshot: I port over the Daemon prince, remove the Levaithan's invuln, and kill the Redemptor in the psychic phase. I had to do this because I made a mistake: I had my 10 man termie unit stuck in with the Redemptor and no Crystal relic!!! This sucked hardcore. I couldn't touch the Redemptor in CC so I knew I had to waste a fantastic amount of psychic resources on bringing him down, and then I could shoot stuff and move on....

 

So the DP hops over the dead Redemptor (move twice) and charges a dual charge into the Leviathan AND his Primaris Techpriest who has been repairing the Levi making my lethargic shooting look even worse.... my DP kills both units, then consolidates near his BA Whirlwind with intent to take over that rear obective.

 

My Termies turn around at mid table, they shoot up one squad of Inceptors, my remaining Rubrics and Ahriman take out the other squad with shooting/psychic (barely). 

 

All I have left is my Exalted (buff bot) Sorc, Ahriman, the DP, and about 7 Termies. At end game the Termies kill his captain in shooting, ahriman claims an objective, the DP kills the Whirlwind and takes an Objective, and for the first time in round 5 I score 15 on the Primary (too little, too late).

 

The BA are left with 5 'classic' marines with a lascannon in a corner ruin who have been holding an objective, shooting me all game. But those are his last 5 models.

 

We add up the score and the BA win 72 to 69. That was a game that was super fun, but my experimentation costed me dearly. I still can't figure out some units. I could have played better too, but I was a little too loose with my movement in the early stages.

 

The BA are no joke though. They still hit like a truck. I forgot how annoying a Leviathan can be especially getting +1 to hit from a Techpriest, and 3 damage repaired a turn, especially against my shooting. The redemptor was also a pain since it was a pillbox with a fists.

 

Anyway sorry for the jumbled report, I just wanted to get this one out before I forgot. 

 

Work calls.... I gotta go, but have another game planned this week. No idea what to do. (as a side quest, does anyone know if Egleighern's Orrery works against Transhuman? This is something I've been wondering.)

[WarriorFish]

Lying about a unit's capabilities isn't on For such a close game it could have made the difference in the result too. As for Egleighan's Orrery the wording seems clear: "any and all ... wound roll modifiers". Does Transhuman Physiology count as a modifier? I'm not sure how detailed the semantics goes here, as it is a modifier but are there rules descriptions making "modifier" have a specific meaning?

 

I need to ensconce the welcoming committee Stratagem in my mind as they will no doubt be very useful. As you say SOT are the perfect platform for it as they can muster a lot of bolter shots plus the extras on top, a nasty surprise indeed.

[Umbros]

Inescapable forewarning on flamer rubricae is glorious. I burned 3.5 sanguinary guard with only 3 flamers today. Just need to get more warpflamers painted...

[BoomWolf]

For a moment there my brain shut down on that .5 until I remembered 2 wounds XD

[Prot]

Inescapable forewarning on flamer rubricae is glorious. I burned 3.5 sanguinary guard with only 3 flamers today. Just need to get more warpflamers painted...

My biggest score on this was a 10 man scarab squad just ripping into a squad of BA dropping on. It was glorious!

[Mushkilla]

I dropped our version of Auspex scan on him (which is very good) and I just annihilated that squad on the drop.

Yeah, Forewarning is really good. I'm so glad we have a stratagem like that.

 

I just found that honestly I'm questioning Cult of Time.

Yeah it's a less reliable and less effective apothecary. That can't even be used more than once on different units.

 

It's just not a game changing power like Sorcerous Facade or Warp Reality.

 

 

The bad news is I was CP starved. I used so many relics, and detachments I started the game with 6 CP, and one turn of using the -1 damage on the Termies, and that's another 3 CP spent!

We are a ridiculously CP hungry army, especially when you start using Forewarning, Overwatch and Unwavering Phalanx (even for 1CP). I'm starting to think extra relics, extra warlord traits, extra detachments and even Risen Rubricae/Webway Infiltration are a bit of a trap.

 

This is why I find Cult of Duplicity so strong it saves us a bunch of CP that we would spend on Dark Matter Crystal, Webway infiltration.

 

I'm actually considering only spending CP on a second patrol (no extra relics/traits). Means I start with 10CP which still probably won't be enough.

 

On an unrelated note I just realised none of the warpcraft secondaries in the core book can be performed by rubric/scarab occults. They are limited ti PSYCHIC CHARACTERS. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Can someone help me with something...how do our CP generating abilities and relics work...do they just dont?

[WarriorFish]

I've not read them in fine detail but they seemed to be normal enough when I did, so they should nab you the Command Point if successful as detailed - according to the main rules which limit how many you can gain that is. I'm not sure on the exact wording of that so hopefully someone can clarify for you :tu:

[Mushkilla]

You can only gain a maximum of one CP per battle round, this is in addition to the one CP per battle round you get for being battle forged. So if you've already gained a CP from The helm of daemon eye this battle-round you can't then gain a CP from the Cabbalistic ritual. 

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Ok so in total you can gain 2 CP max. One from the battle round and one from a relic/ritual

[Mushkilla]

Ok so in total you can gain 2 CP max. One from the battle round and one from a relic/ritual

 

Correct.

[WarriorFish]

That is correct to my knowledge yes, the options in the codex are just that - options for the same ability or a backup should you lose one

[Mushkilla]

I went back to my 10 may blob of Termies which proved very good. I think I got 2 back in the whole game. I just found that honestly I'm questioning Cult of Time. I note so often I get a "9" in a game on the termie squad which would allow me to get 1 back anyway. Some turns I used CoT, got a 9 and could have brought back 2! This is not something I expected when the codex came out, but it happens more than you'd think. 

 

 

Worth pointing out that the stratagem that allows you to bring back a model/heal only triggers on an unmodified 9+.

 

There is however a trick that allows us to guarantee an unmodified 9+ cast on a unit. 

 

1. Cast smite 4 times

2. Use Pact from Beyond to auto cast smite with your scarab terminators. As this is the fifth casting of smite its minimum casting value is 9.

3. You just cast a power on an unmodified 9+... Profit.

 

So with this trick you can reliably get back 2 scarabs a turn if you are cult of time..

Edited August 25, 2021 by Mushkilla

[WarriorFish]

Ok now we're sure, you're definitely channelling Tzeentch's divine blessings Mush :lol:

[Prot]

Great trick... I think. lol (I'm sure GW will hammer that one.) Side note: I was only res'ing on a natural 9+.

 

The reason I ask about that relic Ehgleigher's Orrery (sorry I butchered that I'm sure) is because while I believe it should work against Transhuman, it really is something that reminds me of a ruling for Death Guard. 

 

Kind of convoluted and I won't derail the thread with it, I just thought I'd ask. 

 

About Duplicity: that's another good point aside from the obvious utility; it basically amounts to saving you 1 or 2 CP AND getting you a better relic than a one use crystal.

 

I will say previous to the new codex I felt the Crystal was essential because getting my mob of SOT's stuck in with something like BA was a nightmare. Now it's not near as bad. Since the new codex, I only felt like I absolutely needed the Crystal, and that was when my SoT's got stuck in with dreadnoughts. That's a stand off SoT's will lose 9/10 times.

 

But with Duplicity your able to just about guarantee (a few times a game) multiple moves, and you get to enjoy one of those super cool relics. 

 

The only downside with Duplicity is it was the best competitive choice before, and it's looking like it will be that way again. Aside from what Duplicity does (and its warlord trait) you have all these amazing relics... soooo many good ones for Exalted's, and DP's expecially, heck even a flamer relic for Rubrics... How many of us want to use those precious relic slots on a one use crystal?

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

On to my next game. No idea the opponent, but I think talk and my incredibly stubborn love of 'fiend' models has me wanting to attempt 2 x Ecto Fiends with triple Ectoplasma each.

 

In order to do this, I'm also wanting extra HQ to help out, so this means I gotta (very reluctantly) drop my very fun (and new!) Daemon Prince with relic armour and Knowledge's Ardent Scholar. In his place will be an Exalted on disk, and a 'free slot' Sorc.

 

I'll also seriously consider going back to Duplicity.

[Ahzek451]

The ability to move in 9th is so important. Early on I was thinking between time and duplicity. But still, the ability for anyone in the cult to bounce around(granted one at a time) at will is the objective winner. Not to mention pulling out of bad situations. The trick is, reliably casting it when you need it most. Having enough cabal points on standby just in case.