GW Balance Dataslate: Russ and Orders buff

[WarriorFish]

Good news comrades, GW's new Balance Dataslate has arrived! Aside from the obvious in some extra tweaks to the game to help with balance it is all the more welcome for a notable boost to His Hammer:

• Leman Russ tanks have a 2+ Save
• Tank Orders can be issued to any Vehicle within 6", no longer only Russes (but not Titanic units)
• Infantry Orders given to a unit can also be applied to another one or more unit within 6" of that unit (only standard/universal Orders)

Russes with a 2+ save is going to help a lot, Guard now have true heavy armour so they should be much better off against standard AT (melta is another matter). Being able to order non-Russ tanks is nice but I'm not sure how much practical use it'd get outside of artillery?

 

For infantry this can double orders which is again nice, but feels somewhat situational as you don't always want to "group" orders. It is useful for giving your officer an range boost to reach squads the order wouldn't normally too (does anyone take Voxes?).

 

Hopefully the start of things to come as next year we can look to receiving a new Guard codex at some point, what does everyone think of these changes?

 

edit: correction on infantry orders

Edited November 10, 2021 by WarriorFish

[Lord Marshal]

Baneblades having worse armour than a Russ is pretty funny.

 

Be interesting to see what changes Cult Leman Russ' have the GSC 'dex lands. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Lord Marshal

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, those were my thoughts also but I'm presuming other armies will get some attention later. That or these as direct balance tweaks are more interested in specific codex issues? It's the first dataslate so we'll need to see how it pans out over future releases but so far a good start

 

I don't think this will be catapulting Guard up the rankings, but it's a much needed shot in the arm. In particular I'm thinking of the orders boost for my Stormies when they arrive from reserve to save the day... For tank orders? Maybe the Manticore needs dusting off

[Closet Skeleton]

It says vehicile units, so sentinel squadrons will be able to hit on 2s with rerolls.

 

Shame they didn't make the change I wanted to let every Russ in a squadron benefit so it will still only be tank commanders that see play.

[The Pounder]

My artillery have the vehicle key word!! Exciting.

 

Might have to add a TC! Are Demolishers still doing some work?

[SteveAntilles]

I'm gonna have to rework my Stormtrooper list a lot. Have to drop three flyers! Should I go all Valks, or 2 Vultures and a Vendetta? What do I add?!

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

I am suddenly feeling a lot better about the pending acquisition of a secondhand Parking Lot :D Russes with a 2+ armor save is going to be very tasty.

[sairence]

The save on Russes is a great change. They should finally feel at least somewhat durable. Also increases the value of Psychic Barrier even more against high ap weapons.

 

The ordering other vehicles seems cute and there's some interesting stuff, but I'm not sure how it's going to be better than the Russ ordering itself. Though the ide of ordering Full Throttle on a full Chimera and yeeting it 24+2D6" across the board is amusing to me.

 

The order change opens up a ton of options. Want your while line to fire all the Lasguns? Your deepstriking Tempestor Prime order his entire detachment from the drop? Your outflanking Platoon Commander directing all your outflanking Vets, Command Squads and SWS in one go? Hell, the Platoon Commander can now actually order his entire platoon. When was that ever possible before?

 

There's a ton of possibilities with this. And the range is pretty insane. A full infantry squad, not to mention a blob of conscripts can cover a lot of ground, so that order bounce can reach pretty far if you do it right. It's probably a good thing it doesn't work on Move, Move, Move or the regiment specific to a orders.

[Captain Caine 24th]

I'll have to sit down and think about this. I'll need to re-read it before I get really excited.

 

It's worth going through all the vehicles, even the unusual stuff, and it should probably have its own thread. The heavy mortar and thudd gun weren't terrible. With a good regiment and orders, they could actually be playable. The medusa needs a lot of help... cadian regiment with the pound them to dust order? Medusa siege isn't a turret weapon... unfortunate. Maybe go catachan with 'gunners kill on sight'? These updates could be the key to unlocking the holy artillery trifecta: longer range, re-roll 1's to hit, and re-roll shots.

 

I mean there's still mobility problems, screening problems, and bleeding secondary issues... But, this update might breathe a lot of life into guard--especially in conjunction with that new octarius warzone coming out. Tank commanders needed durability and we might now have it not only with the 2+ (saving a tank ace selection) but also in conjunction with the warlord trait 'gifted commander' for a redeploy to keep a tank commander alive. 

 

It's worth play-testing this 'aura' business with orders. Again in conjuction with Octarius white shields there could be real benefits. 

 

If this allows me to get what I want out of regiments without multiple detachments there's a shadow buff here of +2 or 3 CP to my existing army.  I mean I'll probably still take a separate scion detachment though. 

 

I'm waiting for it to be fake or to be educated I've read it all wrong. For now, this is very, very exciting.

[Tokugawa]

It says vehicile units, so sentinel squadrons will be able to hit on 2s with rerolls.

 

Shame they didn't make the change I wanted to let every Russ in a squadron benefit so it will still only be tank commanders that see play.

In 9th +hit is capped at +1 total.

[jaxom]

The order change lets us run two infantry squads as if they were a single 20 man blob for the purposes of orders; not quite 8th edition conscript silliness, but nice. It also means we can run less characters with some careful planning and thus reduce secondary objectives like Assassinate. The TC change has me eying Hellhound chasses and thinking about Strike and Shroud. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Maybe this is just me but can these infantry orders be daisy chained infinitely?

A unit that receives an order can pass that order on another 6”

 

I’m sure that’s not how they intended it but that’s how it reads to ms

[sairence]

Maybe this is just me but can these infantry orders be daisy chained infinitely?

A unit that receives an order can pass that order on another 6”

 

I’m sure that’s not how they intended it but that’s how it reads to ms

It only bounces off the original ordered unit, not every other. But that's still a potentially huge range and basically makes the order an aura spreading from the unit you gave the order to.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

Maybe this is just me but can these infantry orders be daisy chained infinitely?

A unit that receives an order can pass that order on another 6”

 

I’m sure that’s not how they intended it but that’s how it reads to ms

It only bounces off the original ordered unit, not every other. But that's still a potentially huge range and basically makes the order an aura spreading from the unit you gave the order to.

im sure that’s RAI, but RAW, it doesn’t seem to specify a limit on how it works.

[sairence]

Actually, that is literally the wording as written. ;-)

 

Each time a <Regiment> unit with the Voice of

Command ability issues one of the following orders

to a <Regiment> Infantry unit, that same order can

be issued to one or more other friendly <Regiment>

Infantry units (excluding Officer units) that are

within 6" of the unit that order was originally issued

to

 

So the sequence is:

Officer issues order to unit A

Unit A now has a 6" aura of that effect that you can choose to apply to any other eligible infantry unit in range.

[Diagramdude]

The order buff says an issued order can be copied to “one or more” infantry units within 6 of the target unit. So you could have 10 other infantry units within 6” of the original unit (not wholly within!) get FRSRF from a single order! I think this gives a ton of viability to sprinkling in a few voxcasters, especially because the units benefitting from the bonus orders don’t need any voxcasters, just being within 6” of the unit with the radioman.

 

Consider an outflanking force of 3 command squads, two of them with 4 specials and one with 3 specials and a vox. Now they all get take aim or bring it down with one order from an officer 18” away, that officer could be using mobile command vehicle in a chimera or just be near another vox unit. Or it could be the cadian commander with the 72” vox trait. And you could layer special weapons squads around that command vox command squad, etc. Now a single vox caster and a chimera, or a small network of voxcasters can make outflanking so much more efficient! You used to be really limited on bringing in infantry from the side board based on where your officers are or also outflanking officers just to come in with those units. This is a massive game changer in list building and reserve tactics.

 

Also, this really lends new weight to the Laurels of Command relic, as you would only need one successful roll out of potentially three or four orders (with master of command and/or inspired tactics) to potentially buff a huge chunk of your infantry with double orders. It’s not immediately clear how the rules update is intended to work with the Laurels of Command, but RAW it would seem that if the laurels go off and you give one unit double orders, now all units within 6” of that unit also have double orders.

 

Also, 2+ save russes are going to be so much better especially tucked into some dense cover, a lot of the common high AP weaponry is relatively low volume and wounding russes on 3s or 4s, so adding a -1 to hit from dense and a 2+ save from the buff is going to really tilt the math on our tanks being able to trade effectively at range from woods.

 

I haven’t even really gotten to wrap my mind around tank orders on all regiment vehicles… full throttle is going to be amazing on chimeras obviously, cadian pound them to dust won’t work on non russes except for vehicles with demolisher cannons, and maybe get around behind them could be useful on something? Most likely this is most suited for Pask as he gets an extra order, so the full payload manticore would be free to move around for good line of sight for +1 to hit and still get a reroll ones or strike and shroud from Pask, or he can full throttle a nearby chimera.

 

What a welcome content drop!

Edited November 10, 2021 by Diagramdude

[sairence]

I'm not a 100% on this atm, but I don't think the Laurels will work on this because you still have the limit of one order per unit and the relic only overrides that for the unit you specifically order. The rest would still have that limit.

 

Really good thinking on utilising Voxcasters with this though. It means you could add an addittional unit with extra guns to your strategic reserves because you won't need to send the officer with them.

 

It would also work great with the Scion regiment, where the WL can issue orders from inside a transport. He can now affect your deepstriking squad if you bring a Vox.

 

It opens up a lot of potential little things. I think much of it we could do already in some form, but it's become a lot more efficient now and will need less CP/characters to pull off.

[WarriorFish]

I missed that bit, corrected the OP this really helps infantry out :tu: You need a good number of squads in a list and before it was hard to get good coverage of orders. Now that's no longer the case as you can reasonably expect to issue orders to most squads and as noted this actually makes Voxes better. Loading every squad with one got expensive quick, but now you can make do with one or two per "platoon" :)

[Warhead01]

The infantry orders bit I find a little confusing. One order would work on more than one unit and only has to be given once? 
That sounds too good to be true.  
I hope that's how it works now. 
 

[Inso]

The limit on fliers is certainly going to affect Tempestus Scion drop armies...

[sairence]

Well, drop armies are fine. Their Valks are too high in the sky to be affected by GW rules. :P

 

Air Cav lists are an unfortunate victim, but honestly...I'll gladly trade that for not being shot off the board turn 1.

[Galron]

Lets hope the new dex makes an exception for guard air craft.

Elysians already got screwed over by being forced to be standard guard and losing everything unique to them. Now they took away all their transports and fire support.

 

My Tempestus which was already maxed out on every slot it can take, modeled after a special forces unit had three valks and two vultures. I dislike ground vehicles despite them in this case being superior.

 

Thats the biggest :cuss I have taken from GW in years. My elysians were in the process of being repainted so I just wrote down the paint recipe last night and stuck it in their box. Maybe they will have a day in the light again some year.

Edited November 10, 2021 by duz_
Don't dodge the swear filter

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Actually, that is literally the wording as written. ;-)

 

Each time a <Regiment> unit with the Voice of

Command ability issues one of the following orders

to a <Regiment> Infantry unit, that same order can

be issued to one or more other friendly <Regiment>

Infantry units (excluding Officer units) that are

within 6" of the unit that order was originally issued

to

 

So the sequence is:

Officer issues order to unit A

Unit A now has a 6" aura of that effect that you can choose to apply to any other eligible infantry unit in range.

so daisy chain it in a massive 6” circle around the first unit.

[Galron]

 

Actually, that is literally the wording as written. ;-)

 

Each time a <Regiment> unit with the Voice of

Command ability issues one of the following orders

to a <Regiment> Infantry unit, that same order can

be issued to one or more other friendly <Regiment>

Infantry units (excluding Officer units) that are

within 6" of the unit that order was originally issued

to

 

So the sequence is:

Officer issues order to unit A

Unit A now has a 6" aura of that effect that you can choose to apply to any other eligible infantry unit in range.

so daisy chain it in a massive 6” circle around the first unit.

 

Wow, I didnt even notice the "or more" part when I read it the first time. Wow, my all infantry Praetorians just got a really nice boost in efficiency. Whether it makes a big difference is still up in the air. With the outright murder of my scions and airborne armies maybe I will look back at these guys a little closer.

[Plague _Lord]

Vox casters are going to be heavily modified come the new codex.

 

2+ leman russes are nice but psychic barrier is a must to acutally try to keep one alive.