Aeldari Codex - First Impressions

[Karhedron]

I'm torn on the seer council, wont two warlocks without character protection just get gunned down? unless I missed something:huh:

 

I think I would prefer one warlock with the character keyword rather than two without:)

It depends on whether you can keep them out of LOS and what you plan to do with them. A 2-man squad standing in the open is bolter-fodder but hidden out of LOS and sneaking around doing Psychic Actions, they may be OK.

 

Yes a single Warlock with Character protection is more survivable in a straight up fight but you have to dedicate a squad to babysitting him. Now if the Warlock and the squad are heading in the same direction then all is well but squads may have some utility too. Imagine a couple of 2-man Warlock squads in a Falcon using Cloudstrike. The Falon lands near the centre and Warlocks leap out into different table quarters, out of LOS and start racking up psychic actions.

 

If you want a buff Psyker to support your infantry then a single Warlock is definitely the way to go. If you are thinking of pulling other shenanigans then small Warlock squads may become useful.

[m_r_parker]

As much as I was looking forward to this codex, I actually a little embarrassed as to how good it is. There's a lot of strong stuff that even I can see, and I don't consider myself a tournament player. There's a lot of special rules that I haven't seen in any other codex yet, and I can only see them becoming more prevalent in future codices. 

 

Example, as a Biel-Tan Swordwind player:

So as discussed previously, Falcons can now act as Drop Pods - but also operating as a vehicle afterwards, with some decent weaponry options. So after coming down (potentially in turn one, which you  can't do from the main rulebook), you can drop off a unit such as Fire Dragons at 9" away from your opponents units, with an Exarch with a Fire Pike and the Dragon's Bite Exarch Power (+2 Damage on Fire Pike). In the shooting phase you spend a CP on 'Wrath of the Shrines' (Biel-Tan Stratagem) on your Dragon unit giving them exploding 6's when shooting. Now spend a Strands of Fate dice on your Exarch's hit roll, guaranteeing a 6 to hit and therefore gaining a second hit with your Fire Pike. Your opponent now has 2x S9 AP-4 D6+4+2 shots to deal with - assuming both go through, that's 14-24 damage (average roll being 19 damage). That's before you have the other 4 Dragons (who also benefit from the Stratagem) opening fire too, or the weapons from the Falcon. Oh, and all the Fire Dragons have a baked in re-roll of 1's to wound. Even for me, that's a lot of damage output for 16 power.

 

2nd Example, a Harlequin Detachment:

Take a Shadowseer, 5-man Troupe, and put them in a Starweaver. Make them the Dark Saedath, and give the Seer the Ghoul Mask relic. You now have a late game rapid response unit for getting opponents scoring units off of objectives. The Troupe are Objective Secured per the Detachment, and when the Seer gets within 3" of your opponents unit they lose Objective Support - so you take control of the objective without even needing to go through combat or shooting. The only saving grace to this is that you can't do this as a supplemental Patrol Detachment to a main Craftworld list, as you'll need the Warlord to be a Harlequin model to get the Relic on the Seer.

 

There's a lot to this codex, and i think it'll take a week or two for everything to come out in the wash. I wouldn't mind betting a quick FAQ to tone down some of the abilities on some units.

[The Yncarne]

I think the counter argument is those fire dragons are going to die to a normal sneeze in their direction. I also tend to think much of these cool combos have a high cost and T3 W1 models are going to have issues maintaining that punch after turn 2-3. Until Tau are toned down I don’t see this codex replacing them or custodes. 

 

I’m glad in that GW’s trimming of harlequins options kept them playable and thematic enough. 

[Karhedron]

As much as I was looking forward to this codex, I actually a little embarrassed as to how good it is. There's a lot of strong stuff that even I can see, and I don't consider myself a tournament player. There's a lot of special rules that I haven't seen in any other codex yet, and I can only see them becoming more prevalent in future codices.

There is a lot of cool stuff for sure but most units have had a 10-20% price hike over their 8th edition incarnations so I don't think it is going to be absolutely meta-breaking. The glass hammers are a bit more hammery but still pretty glassy and the tough units (mostly Wraithhost stuff) is pretty pricey.

[TrawlingCleaner]

As much as I was looking forward to this codex, I actually a little embarrassed as to how good it is. There's a lot of strong stuff that even I can see, and I don't consider myself a tournament player. There's a lot of special rules that I haven't seen in any other codex yet, and I can only see them becoming more prevalent in future codices. 

There's a lot to this codex, and i think it'll take a week or two for everything to come out in the wash. I wouldn't mind betting a quick FAQ to tone down some of the abilities on some units.

We have a couple of things that other codexes don't have (Strands of Fate, Teleporting across the board after shooting and Deepstriking within Engagement range) and I would agree that the book would be embarrassingly good if units were cheaper. If units had been priced like Custodes, Tau and Dark Eldar are, this book would definitely blow most others out of the water. There are a couple of units that are undercosted (in my opinion) like: Webway Gates, Windrunners with Shuriken Cannons, Support Platforms and Warwalkers

 

In the example you gave, 5 Fire Dragons including an Exarch with Fire Pike and Dragon's bite Power are 120 points with a barebones Falcon, that's 265 points. With the 19dmg from the Exarch you can kill a Redemptor dread (unless it has an invuln), the other 4 Dragons should be able to kill another Vehicle. That's definitely a trade up (in points) for the Dragons but there's not a chance your opponent lets them survive after that and wouldn't need to devote much firepower to remove them. T4 1W bodies are super easy to remove even without AP. With a 5+ Invuln save, the Exarch's chances of killing the Redemptor outright reduces and the chance the unit trades up reduces.

 

Fire Dragons are fantastic when they're going into Vehicles/Monsters without invulns however I think they start to drop off in lethality when going into Invulns. They're a great toolbox unit for sure. This is pure theory at the moment as I haven't gotten in a game yet but Dragons definitely seem like a Gatekeeper/Boogieman unit!

[Plague _Lord]

While I think fire dragons are strong - I don't thik they are OP. A good oponent won't let a T1 drop into engagement range of lon range tanks and a T2 drop will be even easier to screen out due to the falcon's large footprint. It will be punishing for aggressive vechicle/monster lists, so for example fire dragons will be great against Crusher Stampede (allthough lucky 5++ rolls can ruin their day). Don't forget that there are a few armies that can still pull off infantry hordes like Imperial Guard, GSC or have high invul elite armies like Deathuard terminators forces, Custodes, Deathwing where the fire dragon's worth will be slightly smaller.

 

I think I will acutally put banshees into my falcon, where I can deploy the tank a bit further back, while still getting a near autocharge with fate dice.

 

I'm overall going for a mech list with dire avengers & banshees in wave serpents, supported by the avatar, shining spears and other jetbikes all from the biel tan craftworld.

[Xenith]

From a quick read through, codex looks strong as hell, some amazing synergies and combos, and unit that excel at what they're supposed to. Makes an embarassment out of my Thousand Sons book! 

 

I love the falcon chassis, so I'm looking at the attribute that lets you count as stationary when firing - My tank will be advancing 20-25" with star engines and shooting with no penalty. 

[The Yncarne]

@Xenith Too bad Mutate Landscape doesn't work against the warp gate. Also the 'Sons don't have a legacy of umpteen infantry units.

[Xenith]

@Xenith Too bad Mutate Landscape doesn't work against the warp gate. Also the 'Sons don't have a legacy of umpteen infantry units.

 

But of the 4 unique 'infantry' they do have, 3 were nerfed into oblivion and aren't really worth taking - just seems that everything in the Eldar codex has a use, and is reasonably strong. Like even Twin shuricannons on bikes now are decent, while they used to be there only to upgrade to scatter lasers. I haven't found a unit yet* that can't contribute to the game in less than 2 ways, which is great. 

 

In terms of production value also, the Eldar codex is gorgeous, full of background, lots of rules. There's a lot to remember, might have to drop to 1500 games to get them done in time.

 

*Fire Dragons, farseers and warlocks are maybe the most one dimensional? But they all have a unique specialist role that other units in the army dont cover as well. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Xenith

[Karhedron]

*Fire Dragons, farseers and warlocks are maybe the most one dimensional? But they all have a unique specialist role that other units in the army dont cover as well.

They may be one-dimensional but they do their jobs well and they are jobs you definitely want to take into consideration.

[Xenith]

 

*Fire Dragons, farseers and warlocks are maybe the most one dimensional? But they all have a unique specialist role that other units in the army dont cover as well.

They may be one-dimensional but they do their jobs well and they are jobs you definitely want to take into consideration.

 

 

Absolutely, hence my claim above - every unit seems to have the ability to perform at least 2 roles within the army, in terms of scoring/winning games, however those that just have one role, are still so critical to the army/do it so well that they're still as good choices as all the other units.

 

I'm comparing this to like, cultists in C:TS for example that lost obsec and have zero damage output, base tzaangor that had their teeth pulled out an the only role is objective sitting, enlightened who are fast for scoring, but have zero offensive output, then look at like, Swooping hawks who are super fast to score and do objectives/actions, and the ability to reposition after shooting, they have lower S guns (though higher than they used to be), with a mechanic to auto wound, or stop people from performing actions, or deal critical MW's in a pinch. 

[The Yncarne]

Xenith: I suspect there’s not a Sons player on the design team, while at least one plays eldar, aeldari, asuryani. 

[Karhedron]

Speaking of Swooping Hawks, I rather like the combo of Phoenix Plume and Winged Evasion. Between the -1 to Hit and a 5+++, it makes the unit pretty tanky for performing Actions.

[Plague _Lord]

Swooping hawks, like scorpions and warp spiders seem great... but they have resin models and are a no go for me. Only resin I have in my eldar army are footlocks and I'm keeping it that way.

 

Which is a shame cause all these units seem to have great utility in today's game.

[Karhedron]

I have metal versions of those aspects. In fact my Scorpions are the original 1st edition metal models which means they are probalby older than many people on this board.

[Iron Lord]

 

The other impressions are... well, I'm still salty about the silly Autarch thing!  Though am I right in reading that Matched Play it should be ok to mix and match the sets, but not PL based play?  Or does the Datasheet loadouts trump the points?

 

Unfortunately mixing and matching between kits is illegal using either points or power level as the restrictions are on the datasheet. It's a real shame to be honest, I wouldn't have minded if the winged version was more expensive than its worth just for legal rule of cool

 

The jumppack-like relic (Faolchú 's Wing?) if treated as looking like a regular jump pack) might make a half-decent substitute. You can't perfectly duplicate the cover guy (Mandiblasters seem to be Jump Pack Autarch Only) but you can come close.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Iron Lord

[Xenith]

Combos I'm looking at:

 

Banshee Exarch with mirrorswords and the +1D upgrade for 10 attacks at AP-3 2D wounding MEQ on 3+. She has the potential to wipe a unit of intercessors in one round of combat.

 

Scorp Exarch with biting blade and crushing blow. Obvious. 7A at AP-2 wounding automatically. You'll average 6 hits, then 6 wounds, enough to put 8 wounds on a rhino or drop 4 marines. 

 

Avengers with hail of doom, the 5+ shuriken power, then maybe guide. 33 shots, ~29 hits, ~6-7 6's, and 6-7 5's for like 9 wounds on an MEQ unit, all while performing an action. 

 

Tanks with the always stationary attribute, children of open skies, star engines for minimum 24" advance and fire without penalty. Open skies also makes banshees M9", and min 3" advance, so they're going 12-15" per turn. 

[Malakithe]

Is there any merit for an all bikers list? How would that work?

[Dr. Clock]

First impressions very positive after a single game into T'au (Stormsurge, but light on other suits).

 

Mission: Nachmund Conversion

 

Deploying aggressively with 2x rangers and 1x8 Scorpions, I used Phantasm to pull Scorpions and Rangers off the right flank to conserve them.

 

Opponent starts by moving Stormsurge off back line 6", then pushed strikes in devilfish out to flanks, one disembarking to nuke the 5 Rangers I left out (this was a trap). Shooting from hammerhead and stormsurge drop Voidscarred serpent down to 2 wounds (saved by Ulthwé 5++ vs mortals, and opponent neglecting to use ignore inv. save strat for Borkan. Also misplayed how anchors work... to my benefit mostly).

 

My turn 1: Falcon with 5 Voidscarred and Ghostwalk wayseer charge into Hammerhead, and they strip its last 2 wounds with power swords after Prism and falcon give it what for. It's touching the Stormsurge, and so they tap into it with consolidate. Limping serpent leaps ruin on right, but 7 dragons and 5 corsairs in another speed on to middle objective waiting for turn 2.

 

Windriders kill left strike team down to 6 and charge, killing 2 more, and re-capturing that point.

 

Turn 2 Primary points: 14:6

 

Opponent brings 2x 10 Kroot in for Aerospace, finally captures right objective with devilfish and commander, but fumbles about with stromsurge, and fails to kill the dragon serpent, though the limping one dies and 10 Voidscarred get out. 3 Suits show up vs. windriders, and pirahna goes for exposed warlock, but combo of Protect, strong rolls and Strands of Fate leaves me with 2/5 riders and a slightly dented warlock.

 

My turn 2, Scorpions buzzsaw action Kroot on my left, 5 Spiders completely nuke suits. Dragons take 6 wounds from Stormsurge, and then Prism snipes it for 6d3 more. Dragons charge Stormsurge for the single remaining wound, but fail to affix any melta charges. I get psychic interrogation on the right vs Commander, and the Voidscarred charge the devilfish but don't kill it, leaving me claiming point into Opponent turn 3.

 

Turn 3 Primary points: 28:12

 

My opponent unable to make substantial impact on center or left. Voidscarred nuked by strikes and commander, but I've held the line everywhere else. Stormsurge neutralized at 1W. Game called top of my turn 3 because I've still got 20 guardians coming in to replace the Voidscarred, and am running the table.

 

In sum: falcons. Yes. But also Ulthwé and Strands of Fate is just incredibly powerful for those clutch saves and charges. Be fast, be sneaky, and most of all be killy.

 

2 Serpents, falcon, prism is now my standard starting position, I believe... and a second falcon is on the table this week.

 

I was blown away by utility of Voidscarred though... 85 points for 6 bodies, 16 sword attacks,  and either ghostwalk or another flavour is just tonnes of fun for everyone lol. And the 50 point Obsec throwaway in a serpent with 7 Aspects is also very efficient. The only thing preventing this from being out of hand is really the restriction on mandatory Troop slots, and the price and competitiveness of all other Elites. 5-6 Troop Corsairs + 6-7 Aspects gets the most out of Serpents both on points and ObSec coverage, methinks.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Prot]

I had a game last night, and I think it validates my original opinion.... the codex has lots of good, solid units, but it's VERY easy to make a mistake with it, because most of it is very fragile. It reminds me of Sisters with a real psychic phase.

 

I'm not getting the Falcon being OP talk. I really don't get it. I was drop podding Ultra's with cherubs and MM's and doing a lot of work with them, and they weren't as fragile as eldar, and it still got wacked pretty fast. Good players also are very good at blocking out deep strike units, especially in 9th.

 

I actually found edge infiltration better with Eradicators, and not relying on a big footprint available on the table, and just a few models that everyone was afraid of, so they kept their forces back to block out, rather than pushing forward to block a pod (falcon) out.

 

I think this strategy still pertains to a Falcon.

 

I'm finding my stuff just dying in droves. I remember a local guy telling me he was fed up with SoB dying in droves.... but I find my stuff dies at least as fast due to 4+ saves. 

 

I also think the codex has a TON of inefficient units so don't be embarrassed it's so good, because it's incredibly easy to put together a very mid level list that keeps older codex players having fun (I have done this and it works.)

 

I started with Vibro cannons for fun. I think they're too situational and I believe I was going to use indirect fire, but I did learn how Custodes really don't give a darn about those when they ignore -1 AP! lol

 

Some things I think feel very over priced, some things I found subtle strategy in that I liked, but one thing I found was scoring was very hard. I feel like I need to ramp a lead in T1,2 and/or 3, and then hope I don't fade.

 

Custodes almost wiped me to a man, errr, Aledari, but I did come away realizing I don't think the Guardians/Rangers are going to be a thing, unless I'm totally missing something. Also although I'm limited by my collection to what I can field, the 3 man bike units are terrible. 

 

I came away from the game wondering where the points are. I have to figure this out.... I do play against Custodes regularly, but it was a bit of an eye opener for sure.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Prot

[Tyriks]

What do you mean that Guardians and Rangers won't be a thing? Just that troops heavy lists won't do well?

[Karhedron]

What do you mean that Guardians and Rangers won't be a thing? Just that troops heavy lists won't do well?

My impression is that they are not strong units. You will need them for Troop tax and ObjSec but don't expect them to contribute a great deal to the battle. Some races have Troops units that can really do good work but Eldar don't look like they fall into that category, at least that is my initial impression.

[Karhedron]

Is there any merit for an all bikers list? How would that work?

Hmm, an Outrider list based on bikes might work. Jetbikes with Shuricannons seem good value for the points and fairly killy. Add some Vypers for heavy weapons and you have a decent amount of firepower and mobility. Shroudrunners can offer a few tricks, some extra scatter lasers and a few sniper shots. You don't have a lot of durability though so I would look to add something that can take hits. Jetbike heavy can probably work but I think all Jetbike would melt in the face of decent firepower.

[Tyriks]

 

What do you mean that Guardians and Rangers won't be a thing? Just that troops heavy lists won't do well?

My impression is that they are not strong units. You will need them for Troop tax and ObjSec but don't expect them to contribute a great deal to the battle. Some races have Troops units that can really do good work but Eldar don't look like they fall into that category, at least that is my initial impression.

Gotcha. I wasn't sure if there was some overhyped combo of the two that didn't work out as well as people imagined, as is often the case. I haven't had a chance to play yet but I probably am going to bring too many Guardians to my games because I just love these models!

[Malakithe]

 

Is there any merit for an all bikers list? How would that work?

Hmm, an Outrider list based on bikes might work. Jetbikes with Shuricannons seem good value for the points and fairly killy. Add some Vypers for heavy weapons and you have a decent amount of firepower and mobility. Shroudrunners can offer a few tricks, some extra scatter lasers and a few sniper shots. You don't have a lot of durability though so I would look to add something that can take hits. Jetbike heavy can probably work but I think all Jetbike would melt in the face of decent firepower.

 

Shinning Spears look like they would fit in. Also those clown bikes look scary as heck