10th edition wishlisting/"How do we fix this mess?" thread

[Orange Knight]

37 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

A friend of mine said he plays games to have fun, not do an account and admin job.

The games needs an overhaul substantially for 10th.

QFT!

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Yep, as someone who has played like 6 games since 8th, i don’t even try to worry about anything except killing my opponent’s models. Maybe I’ll play for primary objectives, but beyond that I don’t care about secondaries, strats, etc.

I’ll do my best to keep up with points changes for my armies though.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

To be honest if that’s all you’ve played over that long a period of time it’s hard to take your opinions as all that valid. I’m not knocking you however those that are playing on a regular basis are aware of the issues with this edition.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

To be honest if that’s all you’ve played over that long a period of time it’s hard to take your opinions as all that valid. I’m not knocking you however those that are playing on a regular basis are aware of the issues with this edition.

Weird how my opinions and views about the issues seem to line up with what everyone else has experienced.

how many games exactly do you need to play to understand that there’s too many rules?

how many games do you need to play to  know that you’re overwhelmed by new rules?

id say the fact that I’ve played so infrequently just compounds most of these problems. Between one game and the next I play there’s been 3 updates some of which are overwriting each other…like this whole combat through ruins stuff.
 

so many people saying the game isn’t friendly to new players…means that people who don’t regularly play aren’t going to find the game friendly to them either.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Let me put it this way.

if I didn’t have an emotional and previous financial investment into this game, and if I was coming into it fresh in 9th, I’d be extremely put off from this game, being told there’s been major rules changes between my first and second game, and then again between my third and fourth, etc.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m wondering how much you actually experienced versus repeating what you heard and seen others say online. I think the core rules are fine tbh. People used to complain that geedub didn’t do anything so it just seems like they can’t win to me. If you have the app all the rules are updated.

[Slave to Darkness]

When a 'streamlined' game is more confusing than 1st edition then they are not making a game thats easier for new players. Or people dont have the smarts these days compared to people in the 90s. Either were all thick or GW is failing at producing a good game, and I know most of you can tie your shoelaces (Ork players still use flipflops though, bless them) so its on GW. TbhI dont even think 10th will all that good, some bits will be ok and other bits people will hate, I have actually given up on GW as rules writers. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

40 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I’m wondering how much you actually experienced versus repeating what you heard and seen others say online. I think the core rules are fine tbh. People used to complain that geedub didn’t do anything so it just seems like they can’t win to me. If you have the app all the rules are updated.

I’m not trying to analyze specific interactions between sets of rules.

just stating my experience based opinions.

I’ve been complaining about the way the rules don’t stop piling on and changing for a while starting with strats and being told it’s not that big of a deal.

you don’t need to even play the game to see that rules are getting out of hand.

also I have the app but it won’t let me log in…so it’s useless to me.

doesn’t really matter if it’s updated, if I have to constantly refer to the rules in app it makes the game less fun if I’m always hunched over my phone to make sure that the rules are the same as they were two weeks ago.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Fair enough. I find sometimes army list construction can be difficult but on the other hand it makes armies highly customizable.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

26 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

Fair enough. I find sometimes army list construction can be difficult but on the other hand it makes armies highly customizable.

An update and rebalance once a year might still be a mild annoyance but it’s not like you can say there’s too many new rules in an edition at that rate.

3 year cycle per edition? Only 3 updates. Broken OP armies can still be nerfed in a relatively short period of time this way, but we don’t need to have a dozen books or print outs, or constantly check an app by the end of an edition to be up to date.

[OldWherewolf]

I'm in the middle.  I think the core rules are fine, in fact I think the core rulebook rules are in the best state they've ever been in.  Perfect, no, but I don't think they'll ever be perfect.  (removal of templates & Initiative was a good thing!).  The rules aren't too hard to understand, and people can get a game set up and start blasting pretty quickly.

However, I'm of the mind that each of the army books is a little too much.  Specifically,

• Too many strategms, and many of them are game breaking
• the counters-to-counters-to-counters. 
  • e.g.  too much AP, so invulns, so more shots so AoC so more AP & higher damage, so -1D to more damage so phase caps to ignoring phase caps & auto-wounds.  And that doesn't include permanent transhuman & railguns.

I do like how each army plays differently, and is sooo fluffy.  It actually feels like there are different factions playing differently (except my space wolves, they feel like normal marines in fur coats), and my  Astra Militarum.

To a certain extent, I like how GW is balancing factions by tweaking the Secondaries.  I think it's a cool knob that can be tweaked so even the weaker factions at least have some play, rather than just 'if you're not playing the latest codex you lose'. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

21 minutes ago, OldWherewolf said:

I'm in the middle.  I think the core rules are fine, in fact I think the core rulebook rules are in the best state they've ever been in.  Perfect, no, but I don't think they'll ever be perfect.  (removal of templates & Initiative was a good thing!).  The rules aren't too hard to understand, and people can get a game set up and start blasting pretty quickly.

However, I'm of the mind that each of the army books is a little too much.  Specifically,

• Too many strategms, and many of them are game breaking
• the counters-to-counters-to-counters. 
  • e.g.  too much AP, so invulns, so more shots so AoC so more AP & higher damage, so -1D to more damage so phase caps to ignoring phase caps & auto-wounds.  And that doesn't include permanent transhuman & railguns.

I do like how each army plays differently, and is sooo fluffy.  It actually feels like there are different factions playing differently (except my space wolves, they feel like normal marines in fur coats), and my  Astra Militarum.

To a certain extent, I like how GW is balancing factions by tweaking the Secondaries.  I think it's a cool knob that can be tweaked so even the weaker factions at least have some play, rather than just 'if you're not playing the latest codex you lose'. 

I feel that most people don’t have too many complaints about the core rules, and most are about the codexes, and campaign books and all the FAQ.

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I’m wondering how much you actually experienced versus repeating what you heard and seen others say online. I think the core rules are fine tbh. People used to complain that geedub didn’t do anything so it just seems like they can’t win to me. If you have the app all the rules are updated.

I play on a semi regular basis and have come up against a lot of that 9th edition goodness or been at the store when someone else has been getting shellacked. It is pretty much in line with what people complain about. Tyranids were probably the worst but there is plenty else wrong right now.

The core rules are fine, with some exceptions that could be tweaked by a new edition. It is all the other stuff that gets layered on top that breaks the game. The writers have no respect for the framework of the game.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

So really it is certain codices that are the problem such as the upcoming LoV… 

[phandaal]

5 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

So really it is certain codices that are the problem such as the upcoming LoV… 

Codexes, and some other new rules that get included in random supplements. Crusher Stampede was a doozy too.

As a lifelong fan of Dwarves, however, I can say 100% objectively that Leagues of Votann are totally fine and will certainly not be nerfed shortly after release.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How are they fairing on TTS ? From what I’ve seen they can inflict lots of MW.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

A small change, but I’d like dual wielding melee weapons to give an inherent +1 attack. 
 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Black Blow Fly said:

How are they fairing on TTS ? From what I’ve seen they can inflict lots of MW.

Very strong. Lots of MW, lots of auto wounds. Melee is OK, shooting is bonkers.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They will get some hard nerfs for sure… care to make a wager ?

[phandaal]

58 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

They will get some hard nerfs for sure… care to make a wager ?

No, because we probably already agree on how hard that nerf bat is going to swing. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Honesty is the best policy — ;  )

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What really kills me in this thread is how mythical 10th edition will be… like suddenly geedub will fix everything for everybody. Yeah sure and I for one can’t wait.

[WrathOfTheLion]

It depends on if their design philosophy changes.

If the same folks do the same stuff, then any sweeping changes will be temporal at addressing things.

[Emperor Ming]

38 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

What really kills me in this thread is how mythical 10th edition will be… like suddenly geedub will fix everything for everybody. Yeah sure and I for one can’t wait.

Not sure how a new ed will fix the problem, as a new set of rules isn't the problem, codex bloat/ridiculousness is the problem

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

45 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

What really kills me in this thread is how mythical 10th edition will be… like suddenly geedub will fix everything for everybody. Yeah sure and I for one can’t wait.

Are we reading the same thread?

I see people stating what they think is wrong, and what they think should/could be done to fix those problems…but I haven’t seen anyone romanticizing 10th.

im sure a year in we’ll have plenty to complain about again