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10th edition wishlisting/"How do we fix this mess?" thread

Evil Eye

By Evil Eye
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Cpt_Reaper Venerable Brother

Cpt_Reaper

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7 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

i mean no one has said that it was broken beyond saving...
however again, when 1 person says theres no issues, while many people are saying there are issues, it doesn't make sense to disregard the issues the rest of the community is pointing out, just because you like the game as it is.

You'll never win with that argument Lensoven because that in and of itself is suspect. Remember those ads about some product growing up? "Can 10,000 satisfied customers be wrong?" Well yes, yes they can. That swings the opposite way too. Just because "the rest of the community" goes into the online hobby space and complains about the game ad nauseum doesn't mean anything because every single comment made is "in my experience 9th is bad". Every. Single. One. Yet for all it's apparent faults 9th is doing just fine. There are issues that need to be addressed, but as those issues don't ruin the game they don't worry me.

So here I am, for the last time, being that one voice telling you and "the rest of the community" that you are in fact wrong. 9th is perfectly fun and enjoyable not just for me, but for anyone that wants to stop looking for and focusing on the faults.

I am going to do my best not to come back to this thread. I know I won't be able to help myself to read it, but as was pointed out that as it is severely damaging my enjoyment of the entire hobby I should no longer take part.

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Slave to Darkness Venerable Brother

Slave to Darkness

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This is going round in circles, regardless of how many people like something or how many people dont like it, its all down to opinions and viewpoints. Political parties get voted in, yet there is always people who disagree, whos right and whos wrong??

 

Maybe GW should do a poll, does the customer base thing the game needs an update or not? Regardless of weather the community is for or against an update GW will sure as hell do one anyway, even if the game is perfect.

 

Maybe this thread should get the melta.

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Scribe Venerable Brother

Scribe

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I mean heres the thing.

This year, the World Eaters box set will release. Its going to be north of $200, likely over $250 Canadian. I have waited literal decades for such a thing.

Its extremely difficult to justify, when I believe the game is trash, spending that much money, but if it was 5th, I would have spent over 6 times that much, without blinking.

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Inquisitor_Lensoven Battle-Brother

Inquisitor_Lensoven

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9 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I mean heres the thing.

This year, the World Eaters box set will release. Its going to be north of $200, likely over $250 Canadian. I have waited literal decades for such a thing.

Its extremely difficult to justify, when I believe the game is trash, spending that much money, but if it was 5th, I would have spent over 6 times that much, without blinking.

There will eventually be an edition you like.

just get models you like 

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Evil Eye Venerable Brother

Evil Eye

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1 hour ago, Scribe said:

It's been a long time, and the direction is currently opposite. ;)

Myself I think the answer is to pick your favourite edition and just play that with your friends. The fact there's enough sentiment in this thread alone that things used to be better is an indicator that it's not an unreasonable solution.

If GW doesn't make a decent product, don't buy it. I still buy their models and paints because they're still worth buying but unless 10th changes things around heavily I'm not going to be buying their rules.

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Orange Knight Battle-Brother

Orange Knight

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38 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I wish the mods would lock this thread because in my opinion the discussion isn’t going anywhere. Sometimes it’s good to take a break and let the dust settle for awhile. :smile:

 

And why should they do so when this topic has been overwhelmingly polite, despite the differences of opinion?

It's a great example of a good discussion that is only really possible on this forum.

Anyways...

I think that with what is happening following the release of the Votann rules, and how the competitive scene itself is starting to disintegrate with the codex being banned from various tournaments, this discussion is becoming even more relevant. 

I think the cycle of super powerful rules being released, people buying armies, and then seeing those armies nerfed significantly has to be stopped.

I was bitten really hard by this myself a while back, and I never looked to build a strong tournament list to begin with:

When the 9th edition AdMech codex was released there we some rules that could be abused if units were spammed. I personally never looked to spam those units or abuse the powerful combinations in the army I was building. In the time between my purchase of the codex, and the completion of the army I had started to collect, GW released errata after errata, and completely ruined the army I had built. Sure, they put a hard stop on the spam lists that were causing trouble, but that impacted the more casual armies like mine even more. Now my AdMech list feels limp and unimpressive compared to the books that have been released since, and I have no interest in buying more models to change it up.

I've also noticed, over the past two years, that GW would take a unit that had a clear "best option" of wargear, then update the rules so that previous best option is now inferior to another. It's a pretty cynical way of driving repeat purchases. How about they simply make all the options compelling to begin with?

I feel that 9th has become tainted for a lot of people now. I was looking forward to the update of the Marine codex, but I don't want to see a repeat of this cycle again. A new book that shatters the Meta, then gets gradually nerfed before a new edition is released...

Edited by Orange Knight
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Inquisitor_Lensoven Battle-Brother

Inquisitor_Lensoven

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On 9/21/2022 at 10:40 PM, Scribe said:

Why stifle discussion and police other people?

because that seems to be the default in western societies now. book banning attempts in the US, royal protestors being arrested in the UK. just shut down the people that disagree with you and don't let them have a voice.

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Verbal Underbelly Veteran

Verbal Underbelly

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I think 9th edition 40k is very hard to keep track of, so many FAQ and errata. For people (like me) that don't get to play as much as they used to it's a tough ask. The layering of the rules and abilities in each codex is quite a lot now as well. I've enjoyed the basic mechanics of 8th and 9th but you have to really trust that your opponent know their own rules properly because there's no way I know now. I used to be able to help my opponents in older editions when they forgot or weren't sure about their rules (4th - 8th edition) but now I have to have a spread sheet for my own army. The GW release rate is both too fast to keep on top of and yet somehow you're waiting forever for "your" faction.

I have no answers to this - this is just my observation. 

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Redcomet Battle-Brother

Redcomet

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10th won’t be any more balanced than 9th. The first codex will be Space Marines, and that will be underbaked and conservative compared to codexes out later in the cycle, and some codexes will be utterly broken. It is just how they work.

But I hope 10th will be less than 9th. 40k tends to seesaw between overly complex and simple. 3rd was a reboot to make 40k run smoother and since then they have bolted ok more and more to it. 9th just feels like they threw every idea they had at it, and went “that will do”.

I hope they pare the game down to a more simple system again. 

I also wish for a better codex design. Too many pages are spent on datasheets that are almost identical, and crusade has gobbled up too many pages from fluff and hobby content. AoS battletomes are far superior.

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Karhedron Venerable Brother

Karhedron

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On 9/22/2022 at 4:40 AM, Scribe said:

Why stifle discussion and police other people?

As long as the discussion remains civil, I see no need to lock anything. Granted we are not likely to reach a consensus on anything but people are coming up with fresh ideas and thoughts. Not every thread needs to reach a cut-and-dried conclusion, there is room for people to just "chew the cud".

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Wulf Vengis Venerable Brother

Wulf Vengis

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So for 10th why not reset back to the core of 8th/9th and just release new codecies for each of the factions?

It seems pretty simple in that regard since most everyone is in agreement that the current core rules are pretty solid. Cut the codex fat, return to core and try again.

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Emperor Ming Battle-Brother

Emperor Ming

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25 minutes ago, Wulf Vengis said:
27 minutes ago, Wulf Vengis said:

So for 10th why not reset back to the core of 8th/9th and just release new codecies for each of the factions?

It seems pretty simple in that regard since most everyone is in agreement that the current core rules are pretty solid. Cut the codex fat, return to core and try again.

 

Because, without a full index reset, the crazy codexs will remain until they get a new one, which could be years and will be, in some cases:yes:

However, I can't see an index style reset happening now with guard/squats/WE being so close to 10th. If it's still rumoured to be around summer:unsure:

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