HH 2.0 The Aett: Vith Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Space Wolves in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[Gorgoff]

So I finally decided that it makes no sense, because it drove me mad, and is no fun trying to decipher what the perfect load out for Grey Slayers is I threw all concerns over board and just started building.

Man they rurned out great and the look of the whole unit really hits my sweet spot.

Those are 15 men with three heavy Chainblade, because they are only 6 points total (and look badass), two Power Mauls, because I only had two, 10 men barebone and a Huscarl with tiffy armour and a Thunderhammer.

I'll add a Vexilla as well when the glue hardened and maybe a Vox. Not sure if they need it.

[Commander_Moustache]

At the moment I am trying to see what is better, Grey Stalkers or Grey Slayers.

I feel that Combat Shields are not worth it (even on footslogging units), but bolters certainly are for both units. But is it worth the extra points to have a chainsword over the fenrisian axe? Not that the Axe is bad, but I just feel that the sword is just so much better for a single point more.

[Hfran Morkai]

I feel Stalkers will do well using the Drop Pod RoW.

 

You can take two Special Weapons giving you some punch as well as Plasma Pistols if you really want. Bolters as you can't charge out of Drop Pods barring the Kharbydis (I do want a nice big unit out of one, one day), Power Weapons for hopefully surviving until the next turn with some guys and charging.

[Bung]

Rotor Cannons in Grey Stalker Squads dont sound bad.

2 could be sufficent to pin one Unit to setup a charge.

[MichaelCarmine]

I think with Heart of the legion on both the slayers and the stalkers, the stalkers can do better on an objective, just because of the special weapons. 

 

[Gorgoff]

On 6/26/2022 at 3:47 PM, Commander_Moustache said:

At the moment I am trying to see what is better, Grey Stalkers or Grey Slayers

Both.

Slayers for charging, Stalker for objective sitting with two Culverines. 

 

[MichaelCarmine]

55 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Both.

Slayers for charging, Stalker for objective sitting with two Culverines. 

 

Actually, Stalkers do both, just a bit more expensive ^^

[Gorgoff]

56 minutes ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Actually, Stalkers do both, just a bit more expensive ^^

And with less CC options. I wouldn't give Slayers Boltguns. They should move run charge. That's their purpose. Shooting just allows the opponent to trigger reactions.

[MichaelCarmine]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

And with less CC options. I wouldn't give Slayers Boltguns. They should move run charge. That's their purpose. Shooting just allows the opponent to trigger reactions.

Actually, Stalkers have MORE CC Options, since the come with a chainsword base and can get all the options, the Slayers have, plus Special Weapons.

Whereas Slayers get no chance at a Chainsword...

So Stalkers can do EXACTLY the same, for a bit more points, PLUS defend gained ground on the enemies turn, thanks to Bolter/Volkite/plasma/melter...=]

...and they can open their own "cans"! ^^

EDIT: The only Benefit ghe Slayers get, is, that they are cheaper:

3pts, if you'd want to run stalkers like slayers

1pt, if you'd want to run them with chainsword/Combatshield

All Upgrades cost exactly the same.

Given that i prefer the chainsword/combatshield variant, id be happy to pay up to 20pts more (depending on unit size), to be able to put special weapons in the squad.

But that's just my preference =]

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Commander_Moustache]

I am going for Stalkers with boltguns and Plasma guns. Just the way the game is at the moment (all marines) that I think that chainswords are just all around better than the axes

[Gorgoff]

19 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Actually, Stalkers have MORE CC Options, since the come with a chainsword base and can get all the options, the Slayers have, plus Special Weapons.

Whereas Slayers get no chance at a Chainsword...

So Stalkers can do EXACTLY the same, for a bit more points, PLUS defend gained ground on the enemies turn, thanks to Bolter/Volkite/plasma/melter...=]

...and they can open their own "cans"! ^^

EDIT: The only Benefit ghe Slayers get, is, that they are cheaper:

3pts, if you'd want to run stalkers like slayers

1pt, if you'd want to run them with chainsword/Combatshield

All Upgrades cost exactly the same.

Given that i prefer the chainsword/combatshield variant, id be happy to pay up to 20pts more (depending on unit size), to be able to put special weapons in the squad.

But that's just my preference =]

 

Thank you for the clarification. You are absolutely right. They have the same cc weapon list. In addition to that I was under the impression that it is now possible to charge from scouting. Which is not. 

DAMNIT

I guess it comes down to this:

Slayers are the cheap-ish (Despoilers are cheaper) spam of S4 attacks and Stalker are the more versatile option more akin to Veterans. 

Gonna build a squad stalker next.

 

[MichaelCarmine]

Yeah, at first i too was under the impression, that the Slayers would have more melee options than the Stalkers...

It's cool to have a "budget" squad, but i don't get how they justify giving them a whole seperate unit entry!

I would build a Squad, just to have 'em, but i really don't like the axes. Can't even tell you why xD

Maybe a nice little Squad (all with PowerWeapons) to accompany a Pack Thegn...

[Gorgoff]

5 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Yeah, at first i too was under the impression, that the Slayers would have more melee options than the Stalkers...

It's cool to have a "budget" squad, but i don't get how they justify giving them a whole seperate unit entry!

I would build a Squad, just to have 'em, but i really don't like the axes. Can't even tell you why xD

Because re-rolls are sexier than +1S. Which could be missleading if we think about it. For me it always where the models of the Fenris Axe. 

It looks so whimpy and not at all like a weapon with the reaping rule, bit they where in the upgrade kit and with those shields they make the Slayers look very vikingy which I like. 

But still... I already think of replacing those with chainswords and play them as Stalkers tbh. 

If I could get rotor cannons the way I want them to look, I'd do that. 

My warlord is Hvarl and so they could scout-move and let them have it. 

But I never saw models for this gun:

If anyone knows where I get some of those...

Edited June 28, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Gorgoff]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:12 PM, Gorgoff said:

So I finally decided that it makes no sense, because it drove me mad, and is no fun trying to decipher what the perfect load out for Grey Slayers is I threw all concerns over board and just started building.

So I did the math and this unit will cost me 280-ish points. 

20 Despoilers with one more power weapon and heavy chainsword each cost around 270 points. So it is a trade of.

What I can't say now is if wether the additional special rules like reaping on the fenris axes or Skirmish is worth it or not. Time will tell. 

I guess I'll make one Despoiler squad for a Spartan. Advance, disembark and charge. 

[SirPug]

What do you guys think Varagyr vs melee cataprachti. I was thinking of having Varagyrs with 2 frost weapon (sword and axe, not taking claws since fost claw does not have rend for some reason) and Thegn with giant frost blade, but would regular cataprachties with some dual claws and some with fists and bolters do the same for cheaper?

10 man squad in spartan or 5 man squad in land raider phobos depending on the game size.

[MichaelCarmine]

No, because regular cataphractii can only get WS5 on the charge, whereas the Varagyr can get to WS6 and so hit most other Elite-Units on 3s!

Regular Cataphractii have the problem of WS4, hittting most Elite-Infantry on 5s, wich is considerably worse.

Also, Varagyr have Stubborn, Counter Attack (1), Fear (1), and Hammer of Wrath (2)

I Myself run them with Sword/Axe and the Thegn with Great Frostblade/Chainfist, but the better loadout would be Claw/Fist...

[Commander_Moustache]

Cheaper yes, but you certainly get what you pay for.
And personaly I am running claws and Axes, and Claw and Thunder hammer on the leader.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'm aching to make a Grey Stalker squad out of some MK VI using some of the upgrade kit and space wolf bits I have.

Any opinions on Grey Stalkers squads so far? I've only played Word Bearers so far this edition and looking to expand the Space Wolves I already have a bit more.

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I'm aching to make a Grey Stalker squad out of some MK VI using some of the upgrade kit and space wolf bits I have.

Any opinions on Grey Stalkers squads so far? I've only played Word Bearers so far this edition and looking to expand the Space Wolves I already have a bit more.

I'll give mine fifteen men squad three rotor cannon,  two heavy chainswords, ten boltguns, three or four Power Mauls, a Vox, a Vexilla, Artificer Armour and a Thunderhammer on the Huscarl.

[MichaelCarmine]

They work pretty well, I run them either in squads of 11 with an apothecary, AA and Fist on the Thegn, all bolter, 2 Powerswords, 2 Melta and a rhino - or in a squad of 20 with a priest and lots of Fists/Powerweapons. =]

"Mostly" (3 Games with them so far in HH 2.0 xD) i play Pale Hunters RoW, just because of the Outflanking and the minimum of 17" Charge range (Move/Run/Charge with a 2" Run/Charge bonus and Rage 2) and Hit&run

 

Edit: WS4 hurts though...

Edited July 18, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Gorgoff]

18 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

They work pretty well, I run them either in squads of 11 with an apothecary, AA and Fist on the Thegn, all bolter, 2 Powerswords, 2 Melta and a rhino -

Unfortunately that is not possible. Only squads of ten may buy a Rhino. It's the same with tactical squads and such. Maddening if you ask me.

[MichaelCarmine]

Oh damn, you're right... that's unfortunate ^^

I hate free space!

[SirPug]

What do you guys think about Deathsworn? I can't see myself taking them instead of a command squad. They are expensive and for some reason only ws4.

Its a cool squad but really expensive it has cool weapon options and i like the idea.

[MichaelCarmine]

They are WS5 on the charge, i always run them with a Speaker of the Dead, so they get Hatred(everything) and FnP.

Actually a really good unit and since they gained 1 additional wound, its also easyer to get the axes to work. Special Rule got a bit nerfed, so you get "only" 1 Attack, if a model gets killed, but it now also triggers, if the Unit gets wiped.

Ymira Grenades are a potent Weapon against Dreads, as your Axes all get Fleshbane and you can minimalise the gets hot with the rerolls of your priest.

Used to run them with rad grenades and Hammers, but since now Meltabombs are really scarce... I might still keep the Rad Grenades, since Great Frost Blades now have S6 and thus would mean Instand Death against T4 =]