HH 2.0 The Dark Brethren: XVIIth Legion Tactica

[Slips]

Discussion topic with regards to the Word Bearers in the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy system.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Slips

[WrathOfTheLion]

Taking a look through the rules so far. The advanced reaction looks pretty decent, but maybe not as flashy as some of the other ones? It'll certainly help keep one unit alive from being gunned down, and it is quite thematic for one zealot to take the hit for the others to complete the mission.

 

As far as other rules, not being able to go below LD 6 is quite nice, especially given some of the stacking debuffs that other Legions might try.

 

For Warlord traits, definitely eying Unswerving Devotion, having good resistance to pinning could be quite useful given its utility now.

[Lowpeace]

Any of my fellow missionaries of the truth have any thoughts in regards to WB specific plasma gun support squads vs Rotor support squads?

I'm probably leaning Rotor either way because of rule of cool but I'm interested if any of the option is vastly superior?

[Dhar'Neth]

Rotor cannons are quite cheap compared to warp-plasma, if you want them just to force a pinning test, but warp plasma actually kills marines very well. I’m on the fence about the whole squad (by upgrading the plasma you are sacrificing ability to kill dreads on a unit made for it) but they seem a great upgrade on units that take can one or two (terminators, veterans) - as you are giving that unit an ability it wouldn’t otherwise have access to (with great chance to force a pinning test).

[Chronotonic]

Have you guys seen the new squad from GW for our legion

Word Bearers Unit and Campaign game

Makes the Sergeant an apothecary like 4th edition could and gives everyone power swords...

[Slips]

6 minutes ago, Capitano said:

Have you guys seen the new squad from GW for our legion

Word Bearers Unit and Campaign game

Makes the Sergeant an apothecary like 4th edition could and gives everyone power swords...

Double check the wording: Only the Procurator may change their weapon out for a Heavy Chainsword or Power Sword. The Procurants cannot with only 1-in-5 being able to swap for a Power Fist.

So, at best, in a Max-sized Squad, you have 3 Sergeants in Artificer Armor with a Power Weapon or HCS, and 3 Power Fists.

[Chronotonic]

10 minutes ago, Slips said:

Double check the wording: Only the Procurator may change their weapon out for a Heavy Chainsword or Power Sword. The Procurants cannot with only 1-in-5 being able to swap for a Power Fist.

So, at best, in a Max-sized Squad, you have 3 Sergeants in Artificer Armor with a Power Weapon or HCS, and 3 Power Fists.

Darn diddly do dad...you are correct I misread that.

puts the squad at three and a half before weapon upgrades there very easy to make a 400 point squad of single wound models in power armor.  The trade off for the victory points might pay off if they slide in after another squad charges...

[Lowpeace]

12 hours ago, Dhar'Neth said:

Rotor cannons are quite cheap compared to warp-plasma, if you want them just to force a pinning test, but warp plasma actually kills marines very well. I’m on the fence about the whole squad (by upgrading the plasma you are sacrificing ability to kill dreads on a unit made for it) but they seem a great upgrade on units that take can one or two (terminators, veterans) - as you are giving that unit an ability it wouldn’t otherwise have access to (with great chance to force a pinning test).

Good input. I suppose part of the debate becomes which is more points efficient, a dedicated pinning unit or a killy unit that also causes pinning. 

You definetly might be on to something when it comes to plasma being more of a sprinkle it in thing rather than an all these dudes has it thing.

Considering a 3 man jetbike unit with warp cannons or a heavy support squad with warp cannons as well.

[Chronotonic]

So far I have only done 1k point games for the new people to learn the basics...but two tactical squads the chainswords has helped out in those fights...the extra attack has only helped compared to the chain bayonet for less the half the price...I understand its +1 strength ...but I like the +1 attack

Also something to thing about

Moritat with twin Plasma Pistols both upgraded to Warpfire Pistols

-gets rid of the Gets Hot rule and still pumps out the damage...and this unit can join the Ashen Circle unit...give them a jump pack and throw them into the squad of flamers and melta pistols

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Capitano

[Desolos]

Can centurions take dark channeling?

[Chronotonic]

4 hours ago, Desolos said:

Can centurions take dark channeling?

If it has the infantry or Dreadnought unit type it says yes...

[Desolos]

What are everyone's thoughts on gal vorbak

[Chronotonic]

1 hour ago, Desolos said:

What are everyone's thoughts on gal vorbak

Good for none elite fighting units

but against terminators you’re relying on those rending attacks to do damage

seems good against everything else though

[SkimaskMohawk]

54 minutes ago, Capitano said:

Good for none elite fighting units

but against terminators you’re relying on those rending attacks to do damage

seems good against everything else though

On the charge, you average 2.5 unsaved wounds from instant death sources and another 1 failed armour saves against cataphractii. Even with thunderhammers, they average a return of 2.5 unsaved wounds. 

They're pretty good into elite infantry units, but they benefit a lot from the charge and any combo stuff you can layer in. Also you need the power fists.

[Gongsun Zan]

Right now I'm leaning towards a 10-man squad to take full advantage of the Dark Brethren bonus. I  haven't done the math, but I feel like they need the jump to WS6 to do well against other elite infantry.

Boltspitters are also kind of useless imo, since it just invites reaction fire. I think we're better off with the extra attack. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Gongsun Zan

[Testamentum_Veritas]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:40 AM, Lowpeace said:

Good input. I suppose part of the debate becomes which is more points efficient, a dedicated pinning unit or a killy unit that also causes pinning. 

You definetly might be on to something when it comes to plasma being more of a sprinkle it in thing rather than an all these dudes has it thing.

Considering a 3 man jetbike unit with warp cannons or a heavy support squad with warp cannons as well.

I think it’s also worth mentioning, especially as I haven’t seen it in any other reviews or comments yet, that Warpfire Blasters are Assault 2, not Rapid Fire, which is quite a big upgrade.
So a Support Squad with these can fire two shots at their full 24” range on top of the previous benefits. I think this adds an extra edge that’s easy to miss at first, so definitely worth considering for a support squad in a Rhino or something. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I've had good experiences with warpfire blasters on tactical support squads so far, the assault 2 and lack of gets hot made them do pretty well.

Going to build up some more of them I think.

[Testamentum_Veritas]

11 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I've had good experiences with warpfire blasters on tactical support squads so far, the assault 2 and lack of gets hot made them do pretty well.

Going to build up some more of them I think.

That’s good to hear. Although, I’ve always loved plasma, and like to use the Legion specific equipment for lore reasons anyway. But it helps that they are useful if I was going to take them regardless. 
 

What size squad do you field? I’ve been looking at 5s and 10s, and with a Rhino that 10-man squad is almost the same price as Terminators. But 5 seems too few.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I've done a squad of 5 so far, as I already had a plasma tactical support squad painted up from 1E. I'm looking at adding a squad of 10 with some of the MK VI that came with the box set, have 5 built so far, so need to do 5 more.

I think 10 is probably better than 5, but I'd need to experiment a bit more.

[Torbenos]

Just to double check that I am correct. Veterans are not all able to take Tainted Weapons, since they lack the character subtype, yeah?

[WrathOfTheLion]

That sounds right to me. The sergeant would have the character subtype, but not the squad members themselves.

[BlessedXVII]

Hey guys, I started up a Word Bearers army for HH2.0. This is the list I am building towards, but I have an awkward 65 points left over. Any thoughts on what might be a good use for those extra points?

Gal Vorbak Where We Started - 2,000 Points

Word Bearers (Traitor; Rite of War: The Dark Brethren)

HQ - 240 points

Argel Tal  (warlord)

Warlord Trait: The Crimson Lord

Troops - 560 points

Legion Tactical Squad (9x Legionaries, 1x Tactical Sergeant)
+Power fist (Tactical Sergeant)
+Exchange 1x power armour for 1x artificer armour (Tactical Sergeant)
Total: 125 points

Legion Tactical Squad (9x Legionaries, 1x Tactical Sergeant)
+Power maul (Tactical Sergeant)
+Exchange 1x power armour for 1x artificer armour (Tactical Sergeant)
Total: 120 points

Legion Tactical Support Squad (9x Legionaries, 1x Tactical Support Sergeant)
+Exchange 10x flamers for 10x warpfire blasters
+Augury scanner
+Exchange 1x power armour for 1x artificer armour (Tactical Support Sergeant) 
Total: 315 points

Elites - 840 points

Gal Vorbak Squad (10x Dark Brethren)
+Exchange 2x boltspitters for 2x warpfire blasters
+Exchange 2x tainted talons for 2x power fists
Total: 600 points

Mhara Gal Dreadnought

Heavy Support - 295 points

Legion Heavy Support Squad (9x Legionaries, 1x Support Sergeant)
+Exchange 10x heavy bolters for 10x lascannons
+Augury scanner
+Exchange 1x power armour for 1x artificer armour (Support Sergeant)
Total: 295 points

List Total: 1,935 points

[Gongsun Zan]

I'd give the HSS a techmarine with cogmis signum/augury scanmer (+75), then drop the scanner on the squad. (-10). 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Gongsun Zan

[darkseren1ty]

I’m also fiddling around with a 2k WB list.. is lorgar worth taking in a 2k pt game? The +1 to charges and the  4+ FNP he can give a squad of termies (+1 one more unit) seems pretty useful. And is it worth it taking the lorgar upgrade too?

 

Currently I’m undecided whether to take lorgar and a bunch of termies with some gal vorbak support or just run argel tel with 3 6-man gal vorbak squads and some marine support with maybe a dreadnaught

[The Scorpion]

On 6/28/2022 at 3:55 AM, Chronotonic said:

Have you guys seen the new squad from GW for our legion

Word Bearers Unit and Campaign game

Makes the Sergeant an apothecary like 4th edition could and gives everyone power swords...

I don't like it. Their special rule, much like Bitter Duty, prevents them from being anyone's retinue.

Even for characters which would make perfect sense thematically, like Erebus.