HH 2.0 The Dark Brethren: XVIIth Legion Tactica

[suxdavide]

I was thinking about making a Dark brethren list, and here is something I should be able to list.

 

Praetor in Cataphractii with 9 command squad cataphractii (4 claws 4 chainfists, flag) on Spartan

Tartaros Harald with Gal Vorbak on Land Raider Proteus

 

Cataphractii Harald with 9 command squad cataphractii (4 claws 4 chainfists, flag) on Spartan

Tartaros Praetor with Gal Vorbak on Land Raider Proteus

Mhara gal (debatable if plasma + ccw or double ccw)

10 Tacticals with Apo on rhino
10 Sniper scouts
20 Despoiler with Apo and Dark channeling
10 Support warpfire plasma with Apo on Land Raider
 

The list focuses on having a few units but with high damage outputs.

Scouts should be able to grant at least one wound to the enemy unit (dodging the malus) while plasma should be wipe out close enemy squads (assault 2 at 24, without gets hot)

I still have 3 lines (herald + Tacticals + Despoiler) with acceptable mobility (hence the rhino on the 10 tacticals)

 

Obviously a lascannon HSS would be a better choice than the plasma TSS, however I don't feel like having a very static unit in a very dynamic list :)

Edited October 18, 2022 by suxdavide

[The Scorpion]

Keep in mind that the Apothecary requires warp juice to join Dark Channeling units. So the upgrade will be 50pts, not 25.

 

If your apothecaries are on the same slot, your second apothecary is Dark Channeled, and thus the rhino tacs need Dark Channeling too.

Edited October 29, 2022 by The Scorpion

[Lord Krungharr]

Many of the of corrupted units are super cool looking and seem pretty good in combat on paper.  Is it worth making an allied detachment to go with my Iron Warriors at all?  Or are the corrupted Word Bearers better as a primary force?  I have my eyes on a Zardu Layak w Blade Slaves, Argel Tal, and a Mara Gal plus regular contemptor of all Word Bearers.  Figure I'd need some Gal Vorbak too...can those be Troops at all?  Haven't delved too deeply yet and don't have my book at work.

 

Expensive army in dollars for sure though....

[suxdavide]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Many of the of corrupted units are super cool looking and seem pretty good in combat on paper.  Is it worth making an allied detachment to go with my Iron Warriors at all?  Or are the corrupted Word Bearers better as a primary force?  I have my eyes on a Zardu Layak w Blade Slaves, Argel Tal, and a Mara Gal plus regular contemptor of all Word Bearers.  Figure I'd need some Gal Vorbak too...can those be Troops at all?  Haven't delved too deeply yet and don't have my book at work.

 

Expensive army in dollars for sure though....

You get the possibility to field gal vorbak as troops either via row or argel tal itself

 

If I'm not mistaken only one of the two methods allows for compulsory han vorbak 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by suxdavide

[Lord Krungharr]

I just read through it and they made it difficult for me....with Argel Tal as the Warlord, the Gal Vorbak gain the Line subtype, but not Troops.  But then with the Last of the Serrated Sun ROW they become Troops, but NOT Line, but they can take Dreadclaws as dedicated Transports which is very cool because I have 2 that I kitbashed with Soul Grinder legs for appropriate taintedness.

[SkimaskMohawk]

10 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I just read through it and they made it difficult for me....with Argel Tal as the Warlord, the Gal Vorbak gain the Line subtype, but not Troops.  But then with the Last of the Serrated Sun ROW they become Troops, but NOT Line, but they can take Dreadclaws as dedicated Transports which is very cool because I have 2 that I kitbashed with Soul Grinder legs for appropriate taintedness.

 

The only problem with Last of the Serrated Sun is that its barred from being used as an Allied detachment.

 

You basically need to get another 100 points for despoilers/tacticals in that allied if you want corrupted units. 

[The Scorpion]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

The only problem with Last of the Serrated Sun is that its barred from being used as an Allied detachment.

 

You basically need to get another 100 points for despoilers/tacticals in that allied if you want corrupted units. 

Or being taken as allies.

It asks you to go all or nothing in this elite force.

That's going to be a lot of pods.

[The Scorpion]

12 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I just read through it and they made it difficult for me....with Argel Tal as the Warlord, the Gal Vorbak gain the Line subtype, but not Troops.  But then with the Last of the Serrated Sun ROW they become Troops, but NOT Line, but they can take Dreadclaws as dedicated Transports which is very cool because I have 2 that I kitbashed with Soul Grinder legs for appropriate taintedness.

So in order to have scoring Gal Vorbak as troops, you need to use Serrated Sun with Argel Tal.

 

Shame that he's Bulky(3) and has a hard time fitting into vehicles alongside his demonbros.

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh CHAOS!  You ask for so much in return......probably worth it though.

[SkimaskMohawk]

At least you're not forced into drop pods anymore with LotSS. You can do an all footslogging force with gal vorbak that can actually score now.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah I like Dreadclaws, but not as much now that they lost Assault Vehicle.  I have 1 Kharybdis too, though mine doesn't look too corrupted, but I haven't found much use for it in my IW or Raven Guard or IH aside from dropping in a Leviathan later in the game, or maybe some Terminators again later in the game.  

[The Scorpion]

Is it possible to deep strike the Mhara Gal in 2.0? Or do pods not allow it?

[Lord Krungharr]

Dreadclaws have Deepstrike, and per the FAQ the Kharybdis now also has it.   Angel' Wrath w 3 Kharybdis each with a Mhara Gal, plus 3 Dreadclaws each with Gal Vorbak, zooming or deepstriking in turn 1, that would be AWESOME!!!

[Zuvassin]

Has anyone tried running a WB armored spearhead?

 

I know tanks and tank squadrons aren't in a good place, so to speak, and Word Bearers aren't super well-known for being tank-heads anyways. Having said that, Word Bearers were my 2nd ed 40k army, so I have a nostalgia factor, and at the same time I'm not really interested in running the "intended" WB army of daemons and possessed (no offense, just don't really care for any of the models so far).

 

As such, I'm aware it'll be an underpowered list, but is there anything useful with the basic Word Bearers special rules that would impact a tank-heavy list? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:15 AM, Zuvassin said:

Has anyone tried running a WB armored spearhead?

 

I know tanks and tank squadrons aren't in a good place, so to speak, and Word Bearers aren't super well-known for being tank-heads anyways. Having said that, Word Bearers were my 2nd ed 40k army, so I have a nostalgia factor, and at the same time I'm not really interested in running the "intended" WB army of daemons and possessed (no offense, just don't really care for any of the models so far).

 

As such, I'm aware it'll be an underpowered list, but is there anything useful with the basic Word Bearers special rules that would impact a tank-heavy list? 

 

From what I can see, theres barely anything an armoured spearhead gets from the word bearers.

 

True believers affects leadership threshold and combat res, things vehicles don't use.

 

The advanced reaction can be used on tanks, so having a sacrificial squadron member is viable. Watch out for ordnance overriding though.

 

The warlord traits and rites are locked off due to spearhead.

 

You can't get burning lore on the tanks, or dark channeling, or tainted weapons, or warpfire plasma.

 

None of the characters have any synergy, save lorgar giving out precision shots with divination, and that's a bit of a stretch.

 

So yea, not a whole lot going for a vehicle heavy list, especially if you want to avoid daemons and corrupted units and stuff.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[HeinzD]

Hey you guys, 

on Battlescribe the Gal Vorbak and the Mhara Gal both have the special rule "blind", but they dont have it in the liber hereticus. 

Is that a mistake on Battlescribe, was that added in an FAQ or something, is my book wrong, or the usual, did i just miss something?

Thanks for the Help!

[Gorgoff]

20 minutes ago, HeinzD said:

Hey you guys, 

on Battlescribe the Gal Vorbak and the Mhara Gal both have the special rule "blind", but they dont have it in the liber hereticus. 

Is that a mistake on Battlescribe, was that added in an FAQ or something, is my book wrong, or the usual, did i just miss something?

Thanks for the Help!

BS is not a rulebook.

Always refer to the Liber books (and FAQ/errata to those books) and what is written there. 

None of the units have blind by the way. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Hello fraters, been thinking about Last of Serrated Sun. Is there scope for using it more as a utility RoW in that it opens up Drop Pods but doesn't force you like the generic Drop Pod Assault? So you can give some forward mobility to, say, Warpfire Tac Support squad, Veterans, Command squad etc. but still have a conventionally-deployed rest of army (big Tac blobs, Heavy Support squads/Dreads or whatever). 

[GarvielEisenhorn]

Has anyone used the new Inductii unit yet? I've been thinking of making a 10 man squad for Zone Mortalis with a couple of warpfire pistols (to hopefully trigger pinning for the SotL bonus) and power lances.

[HeinzD]

38 minutes ago, GarvielEisenhorn said:

Has anyone used the new Inductii unit yet? I've been thinking of making a 10 man squad for Zone Mortalis with a couple of warpfire pistols (to hopefully trigger pinning for the SotL bonus) and power lances.

Havent played them yet, but i think they really excel in bigger squads, like 15 or even 20 man, warpfire pistols are a great idea though, especially with the eventual corrupted, forgot they are a thing on despoilers, lol 

[NemoVonUtopia]

I am looking in to starting a Dark Bretheren list. Is it generally better to buff already good combat units like vets, gal vorbak, or command squads. Or to buff regular units like despoilers or assault marines? 

 

I've been evaluating using Zardu Layak to buff two 20 man corrupted despoilers with apothecaries but that is approaching 300 points and using the favor points just to match a more elite unit.

[HeinzD]

13 hours ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

I am looking in to starting a Dark Bretheren list. Is it generally better to buff already good combat units like vets, gal vorbak, or command squads. Or to buff regular units like despoilers or assault marines? 

 

I've been evaluating using Zardu Layak to buff two 20 man corrupted despoilers with apothecaries but that is approaching 300 points and using the favor points just to match a more elite unit.

Buffing a more elite unit is generally better with dark bretheren, a WS5 unit jumping to WS6 is a really big deal, not many units are able to achieve this. Only getting hit on a 5+ by other elite units and hitting them on 3+ are very good odds.

Buffing despoilers isnt bad though, only really helps them against other power amor targets though, like despoilers and such. Again, WS5 against WS4 is really good. More elite units usually got a 2+ SV though, which your despoilers will really struggle against, also, they will usually have some form of power weapon with ap3 or better, again, your despoiler will really hate those.

All this changes a bit when you put in multiple favor points in a single unit, but like you said, thats a bit too much, just to match more elite units, id say stick to your command squads and gal vorbak with the favor points.

Buffing a 20 man squad with Zardu Layak is nice though, the +1 movement really helps, since the get +1 to charge, since they hit movement 8".

About the price, playing multiple apothecaries helps a bit i guess, you can corrupt a whole apothecary detachment for 25, even though, that squads gonna be expensive, but will definitly put in work for you

[GarvielEisenhorn]

When buffing a unit with Favour of the Dark Gods, does the "unit" include attached Independent Characters or are they separate?

[Squints_minis]

3 hours ago, GarvielEisenhorn said:

When buffing a unit with Favour of the Dark Gods, does the "unit" include attached Independent Characters or are they separate?

 

It does include IC's although I think some of the surrounding interactions could definitely use an faq.

[suxdavide]

I'm looking towards a pretty simple list: many big things on the table.

 

What do you say about it? Points should be close to 3k, probably a bit more

 

Praetor, Boarding Shield, Mastercrafted Thunder Hammer, Burning Lore
+Command Squad
++9 Chosen, Boarding Shield
+++2 Power Fists

+++2 Power Mauls
+++7 Combi Meltas
on Land Raider
 

2 Aphotecaries. Dark Channeling (with blobs)
+2 Artificer Armours

 

10 Gal Vorbak
+2 Power Fists
+2 Tainted Talons

 

Mhara Gal
+2 Tainted Claws

 

5 Cataphractii Terminators
+2 Pair of Lightning Claw
+2 Chainfists
on Land Raider

 

20 Despoiler, Dark Channeling
+4 Power Axes
+Sergeant. Artificer Armour, Tainted Axe

 

20 Tactical Marines, Dark Channeling
+Sergeant. Artificer Armour, Power Fist

 

10 Support, Warpfire Plasma
+Sergeant. Artificer Armour
on Rhino, Multimelta, Dozer Blade