HH 2.0 The Ravenspire: XIXth Legion Tactica

[MichaelCarmine]

10 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

I've been on the fence the last couple weeks on what I want to fill out my Heavy slot with. Currently I main a Kratos as for AV with flare shields. I havent decided if I should add a second Kratos, or a Leviathan Talon. The Kratos puts out so many shots, but the Leviathans are tough as nails and fantastic back line/mid field counter weights. Both options feel right. 

I'm not a big fan of Vehicles in this new edition, atleast with my Raven Guard. I allways run a Leviathan, he is 90% of the time the benefactor of our special reaction, which transforms him into a beast of a tank.

From time to time, i run him with dual Stormcannons. This thing, pretty reliably, takes aut a spartan with one volley. Do you plan to drop him? Melta/Fist kombo is the way to go.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

7 minutes ago, MichaelCarmine said:

I'm not a big fan of Vehicles in this new edition, atleast with my Raven Guard. I allways run a Leviathan, he is 90% of the time the benefactor of our special reaction, which transforms him into a beast of a tank.

From time to time, i run him with dual Stormcannons. This thing, pretty reliably, takes aut a spartan with one volley. Do you plan to drop him? Melta/Fist kombo is the way to go.

Man...the Kratos with flare shields puts out SO many shots, is difficult to blow up...2 of them... it's really hard to give that up for a Leviathan talon.  You really need to run 2-3 Levis with double guns to equal the amount of shots a single Kratos can put out.

My plan if I were to switch out a kratos for Levis, is 2 which sit mid field and hold break points on the table/objectives, I'd rather run Deredeos for full gun support...but I don't have any yet.

[MichaelCarmine]

11 hours ago, Dont-Be-Haten said:

Man...the Kratos with flare shields puts out SO many shots, is difficult to blow up...2 of them... it's really hard to give that up for a Leviathan talon.  You really need to run 2-3 Levis with double guns to equal the amount of shots a single Kratos can put out.

My plan if I were to switch out a kratos for Levis, is 2 which sit mid field and hold break points on the table/objectives, I'd rather run Deredeos for full gun support...but I don't have any yet.

Yeah, thats SO many shots... volkite... thats really good against infantry, not donna lie, but what can those many shots do about dreadnoughts or other vehicles other than rhinos?

The anti tank loadout is easily and better matched with a duo of boxnaughts, who have BS5 and can react with their ap2 weapons, which a kratos cannot. 

And a Leviathan with stormcannon or melta lance is good against pretty much everything. Also you don't have to blow up a tank, you just need to reduce its hullpoints to zero. And without armored ceramite, or with the introduction of sunderin lascannons, or high volume rending weapons like Autocannons, thats not a difficult task to do. And from the experience of alot of games in the new edition - that flare shield is not so difficult to outmanouvre.

 

Atleast a dreadnought has a 5+ invul. AND can react with all its weapons, with no Arc limitation. Also Melee-Goodness and they get a LA-Buff from RG, other than tanks.

Not gonna say, dreads are invincible, or vehicles are useless, 'cause they're clearly not, just that dreads are, point for point a better investment, especially when you only have one HSS slot to spare.

Edit: also - put a levi with meltalance in a droppod, 5 BS5 Meltas teach every vehicle what fear is.

Edited October 5, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Dont-Be-Haten]

2 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Yeah, thats SO many shots... volkite... thats really good against infantry, not donna lie, but what can those many shots do about dreadnoughts or other vehicles other than rhinos?

The anti tank loadout is easily and better matched with a duo of boxnaughts, who have BS5 and can react with their ap2 weapons, which a kratos cannot. 

And a Leviathan with stormcannon or melta lance is good against pretty much everything. Also you don't have to blow up a tank, you just need to reduce its hullpoints to zero. And without armored ceramite, or with the introduction of sunderin lascannons, or high volume rending weapons like Autocannons, thats not a difficult task to do. And from the experience of alot of games in the new edition - that flare shield is not so difficult to outmanouvre.

 

Atleast a dreadnought has a 5+ invul. AND can react with all its weapons, with no Arc limitation. Also Melee-Goodness and they get a LA-Buff from RG, other than tanks.

Not gonna say, dreads are invincible, or vehicles are useless, 'cause they're clearly not, just that dreads are, point for point a better investment, especially when you only have one HSS slot to spare.

Edit: also - put a levi with meltalance in a droppod, 5 BS5 Meltas teach every vehicle what fear is.

I agree with Deredos. Lascannons and pie plates are good though. AV 15 is better than T8 also. As most guns can't do anything to it outside of melta or melee. The Kratos has been a solid backfield anvil.

I'm open to trying leviathans though 100%

Edited October 6, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So I've been pondering good allies for us to attach to our RoW and I think the two natural choices are actually either Emperor's Children or Iron Warriors. EC for a sunkiller squad combined with a strong I5 melee component, or Iron Warriors with a strong defensive fire HSS base alongside some iron circle maniples with siege shields. Both options still allow for scoring units. Where death guard while amazingly good in several aspects with heavy weapon choices wouldn't offer scoring from troops. I don't feel like Slamanders nor Space Wolves offer anything of opportunity to the army that the other options do. I'm leaning EC but could also see about 750 - 1k points worth an allied detachment.

[MichaelCarmine]

Theoretically, i'd preffer IFs, for BS5 Nemesis Bolter Recon Squad scoring goodness! :D 

...maybe alongside a castellan for scoring Assaultcannon HSS 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

5 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Theoretically, i'd preffer IFs, for BS5 Nemesis Bolter Recon Squad scoring goodness! :D 

...maybe alongside a castellan for scoring Assaultcannon HSS 

That wouldn't be bad actually. Although I'd probably stick with Autocannons just for the range.

I like iron warriors for the extra strength bonus against dreads and vehichles.

EC offer a strong shooting unit but also a powerful melee presence with I5 on the charge/counter charge.

All three options are viable. 

Oh also! @MichaelCarmine I tried a dread talon out instead of the Kratos over the weekend, so two dreads. I kept a strong midfield pressence.. one held Horus at bay for a single turn, the other netted a positive against 2 contemptors and a rampager squad.

They did force a strong choke point in the middle, but I missed having my Kratos on the board. I'm going to have to play test a couple more games before I wager a final verdict.

[SlickSamos]

Not to confuse the allies discussion further but I think it's between Dark Angels and Emperor's Children. My vote for DA is that you can get BS5 squads (via Stormwing), improved melee squads (via Death, Fire or Ravenwings), improved tank hunter squads (via Ironwing) and/or tougher squads (via Dreadwing). I think they certainly beat out IF and IW with a Stormwing Tactical and Recon squad backed up with a Ironwing tank hunter squad (either HSS or Predator Squadron). Give the Centurion Firewing for when you need it to aid with Decapitation Strike. Firewing Seekers look amazing for Decapitation Strike too. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

2 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

Not to confuse the allies discussion further but I think it's between Dark Angels and Emperor's Children. My vote for DA is that you can get BS5 squads (via Stormwing), improved melee squads (via Death, Fire or Ravenwings), improved tank hunter squads (via Ironwing) and/or tougher squads (via Dreadwing). I think they certainly beat out IF and IW with a Stormwing Tactical and Recon squad backed up with a Ironwing tank hunter squad (either HSS or Predator Squadron). Give the Centurion Firewing for when you need it to aid with Decapitation Strike. Firewing Seekers look amazing for Decapitation Strike too. 

Very good observation!

The Dark Angels are sound in their own right, but I'm not sure how good they are as allies. Firewing Seekers with scorpius rounds, if kept cheap are focusing on breaching (4) but extra dice rolls are always a plus with the additional +1 to wound from any weapon source.

Storm wing tacticals are kind of a wash against Iron warriors tacs since they get shrapnel bolters which cause pinning checks which is very strong in its own right, and can pepper AV 11 with bolters since they count as Strength 5.

The Recon squad for compulsory option does sound better, but that's an additional +/-100 point investment of a second troop choice which I don't think is needed, especially with how Raven Guard work. 

I think all 4 options are interchangeable upon further inspection. Would just need to proxy them before building and painting a squad!

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Not quite the same, but I am looking to ally a Raven Guard Decapitation Strike to my AL Headhunter rite. I don't know that either force fills any gaps the other is missing, but they play together really nicely with all the Shrouded and infiltrating threats, not to mention the terrifying amount of "I'm absolutely going to kill your warlord, I promise you" between the two of them. Plus, extra VPs for doing it.

 

[Mandragola]

I've also been wondering what to put in that one HS slot. I find myself coming round to a HWS with 10 lascannons and maybe an apothecary. I think this particularly makes sense for armies without vehicles because you need some ways to kill vehicles, dreads and 2+ saves - particularly because Custodes will be back soon.

 

It's nothing special or unique to RG but it's just good. An infra visor is useful for the unit so the enemy can't evade your shots. Something potentially useful is the option to deploy out of sight and scout into a firing position if you're bringing Corax.

 

*It's kind of unique to have a HWS that rerolls 1s to wound in melee, but not in a good way.

[WAR]

With one of the guys in my Group playing Daemons, I'm leaning towards Custodes/ Sisters of Silence as allies. 

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

1 hour ago, WAR said:

With one of the guys in my Group playing Daemons, I'm leaning towards Custodes/ Sisters of Silence as allies. 

 

I've learned that the more dice you roll the higher statistical average you have of forcing wounds. 

I think custodes are going to be too expensive as allies, but maybe not. We'll see what botj offer in 2.0 soon enough. Weight of Fire has always been Daemons Achille's hill. 

 

Pretty much all non marine armies, outside of Custodes and knights are going to have a lot of trouble with volkite.

 

2 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

Not quite the same, but I am looking to ally a Raven Guard Decapitation Strike to my AL Headhunter rite. I don't know that either force fills any gaps the other is missing, but they play together really nicely with all the Shrouded and infiltrating threats, not to mention the terrifying amount of "I'm absolutely going to kill your warlord, I promise you" between the two of them. Plus, extra VPs for doing it.

 

In my games I've found that Raven Guard are a Swiss army knife and a very Finesse army. They offer very good opportunistic options against characters throughout the game. But if your opponent puts IC in deepstrike reserves or only bring 2 HQs/have 1 HQ on the board they fundamentally become mediocre, so a lot of your games are won by movement and setting up to get the most out of your army's RoW. 

 

Personally I don't think the Raven Guard's RoW make great allies from that regard. A lot of their abilities are redundant. Like Dark Furies for example naturally re-roll wounds. They only gain from re-rolling 1s to hit...but you put a chaplain in that squad and they don't even need the RoW to be absolute beasts in combat.

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

I've also been wondering what to put in that one HS slot. I find myself coming round to a HWS with 10 lascannons and maybe an apothecary. I think this particularly makes sense for armies without vehicles because you need some ways to kill vehicles, dreads and 2+ saves - particularly because Custodes will be back soon.

 

It's nothing special or unique to RG but it's just good. An infra visor is useful for the unit so the enemy can't evade your shots. Something potentially useful is the option to deploy out of sight and scout into a firing position if you're bringing Corax.

 

*It's kind of unique to have a HWS that rerolls 1s to wound in melee, but not in a good way.

I feel this!

 

I think if you just field some plasma gun support squads you're better than the 10 man Lascannon squad to take care of custodes and other options, but it's not out of the question to want to bring a Lascannon Squad. Though I think Volkite may be better with a cheap 50 shots that can hit on 2s with a MoS. I've really thought about trying it out!

 

To be fair, I rely on land speeder squadrons with MM + HB & deepstrike deliverers with MMs to kill most tanks and dreads with my own dreads rocking either plasma or melta. Leviathan's on the other hand are so good but take up that single Heavy Slot. It's such a tough call with so many good choices.

[Lord Krungharr]

I am assembling my 10 Deliverers, all magnetized arms (waiting for more magnets).  Sounds like MM are used with them....are Raven's Talons the standard favorite other than MM and maybe power lances or fists?  Also I saw they're painted red in the GW PDF for the exemplar battle.....what's up with that?  Red isn't sneaky.

 

Wondering if I should try out some Mortalis Destroyers w a couple Toxiferran Flamers in there.  Or should I just stick with my combivolkite Mor Deythans?  

[Dont-Be-Haten]

57 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I am assembling my 10 Deliverers, all magnetized arms (waiting for more magnets).  Sounds like MM are used with them....are Raven's Talons the standard favorite other than MM and maybe power lances or fists?  Also I saw they're painted red in the GW PDF for the exemplar battle.....what's up with that?  Red isn't sneaky.

 

Wondering if I should try out some Mortalis Destroyers w a couple Toxiferran Flamers in there.  Or should I just stick with my combivolkite Mor Deythans?  

I run 5 base. Sergeant with chain fist 4 with power axes and 1 MM. When I fluff it up to 10 I add 4 Raven's Talons and a second MM to increase to 15 I will add 2 power axes and 2 Raven's Talons with a final MM.

 

They are Terran born and remnants of the marines who fought alongside Horus prior to corax taking over. They are brash hard hitting hammers who dive straight into combat. Rather than practice the art of stealth.

[Lord Krungharr]

Hmmm, yes, I see why they have that paint job.  Still, a little more black couldn't hurt.  

 

Power axes being unwieldly... guess that would even out vs other terminators since most of their AP2 comes in at Init 1 anyways, and MEQs rarely have AP2 at all in combat.  Interesting, and no extra points!  Makes sense perhaps lore-wise, as being Terran, they might favor old-fashioned power weapons rather than the Raven Guard delicacy that is Raven's Talons.

 

Need to find some MM bits now.  Think a Primus Medicae should run with them?  Or are they tough enough on their own?

[MichaelCarmine]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Hmmm, yes, I see why they have that paint job.  Still, a little more black couldn't hurt.  

 

Power axes being unwieldly... guess that would even out vs other terminators since most of their AP2 comes in at Init 1 anyways, and MEQs rarely have AP2 at all in combat.  Interesting, and no extra points!  Makes sense perhaps lore-wise, as being Terran, they might favor old-fashioned power weapons rather than the Raven Guard delicacy that is Raven's Talons.

 

Need to find some MM bits now.  Think a Primus Medicae should run with them?  Or are they tough enough on their own?

I don't like 'em in that red, that's why i'm painting them in the "Carcharodons-Scheme". The grey/black/dark gold is much more in line with the rest of the army in my eyes.

Also Headcanon - Deliverers/Terran born Raven Guard are the predecessors/Founders of the space sharks chapter! =]

 

I personally run them "Heavy", so squad of 5 - 5 Chainfists, MM; squad of 10 - 6 Chainfists, 4 RTs, 2MM; Squad of 15 - 7 Chainfists, 4 RTs, 4 Poweraxes, 3MM). All Combi Bolters into CombiMeltas. 

 

Usually, wheyou go against other Terminators, you want to minimise their I1 Output, so Ravens Talons do very good work with that. But Since Deliverers don't care about S8 Instand Death, you can invest in more powerfull I1 AP2 weaponry. 

 

One of the big things, the Deliverers can do is Deep Strike, so i'd recommend using it! =] Allthough that means, no Primus Medicae, they are more than Tough enough (Battlehardened(1), 2W, Heavy, 4+ invul, 5+ Shroud with Decap) to wither the storm until they drop into melee.

 

IF you run them afoot/in a Raider, then definately add a Primus Medicae - huge buff!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

To be fair they also represent the Ashen Claws who have red armor, work alongside the Charcharadons, and are a self sustaing renegade force.

 

The power axes are just because they are cheap AP 2. The Raven's Talons are going to eat through pretty much everything with rending 5+ I may change the two axes to fists since 15 is almost 700 points and it doesn't matter at that point. But is still a huge blob of greatness.

[MichaelCarmine]

Shame that they are limited to 1 per army...

I mean, they ARE dead-ass broken, but still a shame...

[WAR]

12 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Need to find some MM bits now. 

I used the heavy flamer arm and with mm from the weapon sprue. cut off area in front of hand on hvy flamer and match mm

[Claws and Effect]

I have a 10 man squad kitted out 7 Talons, 1 MM/chainfist, 2 combibolter/chainfist. 

 

If points are an issue I lean towards taking the Talons guys first. I only bother with the other 3 when I can afford to take all 10. 

 

Talons on 7 guys puts out 36 WS5 attacks with Shred and Rending 5+. I haven't run across much that they don't rip right through with that many attacks. 

[MichaelCarmine]

9 hours ago, Claws and Effect said:

I have a 10 man squad kitted out 7 Talons, 1 MM/chainfist, 2 combibolter/chainfist. 

 

If points are an issue I lean towards taking the Talons guys first. I only bother with the other 3 when I can afford to take all 10. 

 

Talons on 7 guys puts out 36 WS5 attacks with Shred and Rending 5+. I haven't run across much that they don't rip right through with that many attacks. 

I would never go Talons only - atleast 1 chainfist per 5 if you run into a AV14 vehicle.

Also i'd recommend atleast 1 Multimelter per 5 - so they have to ability to open up their own cans to get to the goodies! :D

 

I like Claws, but i think the Deliverers are wasted that way with their Battlehardened(1). All it takes is another Elite Terminator Squad with a Primus Medicae attached and the claws have to go through 2W - 2+/4++/5+++ - i've done that several times with my Dark Furies, full squad of 10 and even they had problems going through that with "just" claws. That's why i've updated my Chaplain with a Hammer to have some form of Instand Death potential.

...everything else is dead though! xD

Edited October 19, 2022 by MichaelCarmine

[Dont-Be-Haten]

5 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

I would never go Talons only - atleast 1 chainfist per 5 if you run into a AV14 vehicle.

Also i'd recommend atleast 1 Multimelter per 5 - so they have to ability to open up their own cans to get to the goodies! :D

 

I like Claws, but i think the Deliverers are wasted that way with their Battlehardened(1). All it takes is another Elite Terminator Squad with a Primus Medicae attached and the claws have to go through 2W - 2+/4++/5+++ - i've done that several times with my Dark Furies, full squad of 10 and even they had problems going through that with "just" claws. That's why i've updated my Chaplain with a Hammer to have some form of Instand Death potential.

...everything else is dead though! xD

For Dark Furies I throw all of the precision strikes on the things I need dead, I've normally sniped out the Medicae by the time I get into close combat.

 

I do agree with 1 in 5 having a MM. The chieftain is a prime candidate for the powerfist since he has 3 base attacks, meaning he gives more melee swings.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Lord Krungharr]

I built 10 all magnetic armed Deliverers, w 2 Chainfists.....but looking at the data sheet now it doesn't say we can take power or chain fists on them.  Or do those fall under the power weapon category?  Don't have my rulebook with the weapon pages with me.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

It's not in the rulebook. It is in the Exemplary .pdf put out by War-Com. They may exchange their power weapon for a power fist for +10 and a chain fist for +15.