HH 2.0 Serpents Lair: XXth Legion Tactica

[HokusPokus]

Thoughts on Effrit Disruptor squad sizes?

 

It seems like a really fun squad with good rules to support other units in the form of Hydra's Wail and Concussive and I'm basically determined to run them alongside "stolen" Nemesis Destroyers. My thinking is reduced enemy Ld and WS helps Destroyers kill more while rad grenades buff the power daggers if I could pull off both charges, plus the Ld debuff helps the Nemesis' Mortifier bolters at range if I don't want to get into CQC.

 

The problem is for a 1k point Zone Mortalis list a full squad of Effrit and a base squad of Nemesis combined are 440 points (275 for 10 Effrit with power daggers and 165 for the Nemesis, more if you want more weapons). That's a lot of points for not a lot of reliable AP2 which strikes me as important for Zone Mortalis games. Could I skip the extra Effrit to buy a TSS with meltas or a Dreadnought? Am I being strange for doubting mass Breaching?

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I have only used the Effrit a couple times but I have LOVED them. That said, the new ZM rules are totally different with what you want to prioritize and when things will be on the table. It may be hard to guarantee the synergies between different units in this way. I do definitely think that the effrit are badass and I would way rather have them than a TSS or a contemptor, but that could just be my preference.

[Xenith]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:57 PM, HokusPokus said:

Am I being strange for doubting mass Breaching?

 

Mass breaching with Shred! My 10 Effrit regularly get 5-6 breaches through in a round of shooting, however you're really looking at 3 breaching+9 wounds against T4, if you fire one wail. Might not do much v termies but it'll hurt anything else, dreads included! In fact, as dreads are only wounded on a 6+, the shred becomes even more powerful. 

[HokusPokus]

15 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Mass breaching with Shred!

Somehow I have missed key information hiding in plain sight! That really changes the calculus on this unit, and especially makes me feel less bad about committing to it. If only RAW didn't prevent me from attaching a Saboteur... nonetheless, a nice tool to have. Good catch!

[Xenith]

The only weakness to the effrit is not causing pinning, however you can attach a vigilator to them to snipe out sergeants, which then combines with the -1Ld from the wail, -1 from shell shock, and potential -1 from night fight for a -4 swing, taking a unit of tacticals down to Ld4. 

 

With 2W and 2A each, the effrit are ok in a fight and marginally tanky, prime location for an apothecary. 

[Dagoth Ur]

Considering how tight Elite slots can get, I've been toying with the idea of grabbing some Indomitus terminators. Granted, they're not as durable as Cataphracti nor as fast as Tartaros but being a relatively cheap, non-comp Troops platform for power fists/Thunder Hammers doesn't seem too bad. Maybe even Infiltrate 1-2 units via Dynat.

 

Speaking of Dynat - anyone got any experiences with the Storm Eagle? I recently picked up a Stormwolf transporter in a bargain bin and it has the exact size as a storm eagle so I've been slowly de-wolfing it. Might not be the best option in the game, but I was thinking of deploying Dynat + 5 Varagyr via it.

[Gorgoff]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:15 AM, Dagoth Ur said:

Considering how tight Elite slots can get, I've been toying with the idea of grabbing some Indomitus terminators. Granted, they're not as durable as Cataphracti nor as fast as Tartaros but being a relatively cheap, non-comp Troops platform for power fists/Thunder Hammers doesn't seem too bad. Maybe even Infiltrate 1-2 units via Dynat.

 

I thought so as well and tried to make Pride of the Legion lists in which Indomitus Terminators get line. Slots become a problem in no time I experienced. 

All of the sudden 6 troops were full, fast and heavy of course also because you only get one of each and the rest was full as well and I still had like 200 points to spare. It ain't easy to build those lists but indomitus terminators come in handy. 5 men with an augury scanner and assault cannon cost 190 points which is quite cheap for a scoring unit of terminators.

[Gorgoff]

I think a nice addition to a Pride of the Legion list would be to put those two 5 men Indomitus terminator squads in Land Raiders. Should be nice workhorses, no? Anyone has experience with this kind of things or just want to add their 5 cents to this idea?

Edited November 25, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Dagoth Ur]

21 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I think a nice addition to a Pride of the Legion list would be to put those two 5 men Indomitus terminator squads in Land Raiders. Should be nice workhorses, no? Anyone has experience with this kind of things or just want to add their 5 cents to this idea?

I have a couple of games lined up over the next few weeks - I'll try it out!

[Gorgoff]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:33 PM, Dagoth Ur said:

I have a couple of games lined up over the next few weeks - I'll try it out!

And I have two Land Raiders now so next year Indomitus time it is!

[LameBeard]

I know it is now practically a meme that Alpha Legion players take Fulmentarius as their Rewards of Treason (although I’d like to see more people post pictures of their models). After the nerf, I got thinking has anyone used any other Legacy unit?

 

I have some nice jump packs but only 4. Would Enigmatus Firewing Cabal be a waste of time? I am likely to be playing only smallish games so putting them in 1500pt list, say.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

17 hours ago, LameBeard said:

I have some nice jump packs but only 4. Would Enigmatus Firewing Cabal be a waste of time? I am likely to be playing only smallish games so putting them in 1500pt list, say.

 

Those are my next project for sure. 100 points for what is essentially a unit of 3 centurions? That can drop in Shrouded? And can get a charge off with 3+ Rending? 

Sign me up!

I have already wanted to build some, and now they seem like a complete no brainer. I also play ZM almost exclusively right now (time constraints), and they seem like they'll give you QUITE the bang for your buck at smaller game sizes.

I imagine anyone running Fulmentarus will just use them as Siege Tyrants now. Other units I may try using at some point: some Rampagers with the choppy 4+ Rend blades, some Mor Deythan or Dark Furies, or maybe even Ashen Circle.
Anything that is good on their page without their Legion trait is fun to try.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Too bad Firewing Enigmatus are useless in CotH since all the Rewards of Treachery units have to start on the table, thus negating their 4++ shrouded upon DS'ing.

Which was the one thing making them interesting.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I honestly forget that Coils even exists. If I wanted to play three units of another legion, I’d just play that legion.

[Xenith]

On 12/12/2023 at 7:16 PM, LameBeard said:

has anyone used any other Legacy unit?

 

Quite a few are easy direct swaps for models - I've used Sunkillers and the WE Red hand destroyer squad - like regular destroyers but you can give them the insane WE melee weapons. The meteor hammer (?) is +2S, breaching 5+ or something, which combo's well with rad grenades to ID T4 stuff at ap2 on a 5+.

I also want to try out nemesis destroyers and mortus poisoners. 

[LameBeard]

54 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Quite a few are easy direct swaps for models - I've used Sunkillers and the WE Red hand destroyer squad - like regular destroyers but you can give them the insane WE melee weapons. The meteor hammer (?) is +2S, breaching 5+ or something, which combo's well with rad grenades to ID T4 stuff at ap2 on a 5+.

I also want to try out nemesis destroyers and mortus poisoners. 

I really want to try out nemesis destroyers and Mortus poisoners - I love the fluff. The poisoners look like too many points for what you get. Why is the heavy flamer so expensive? Seem to be be outclassed by Dreadwing Interemptors.

 

but I was asking about anything hiding in the other document. Iron Havocs with Shrapnel Cannons?

[Tanner]

I’m surprised RG Deliverers haven’t been mentioned more - they’ve always done great work for me. WS5, Battle Hardened, Deep strike, really handy I’ve found. 

[dollar452435]

There will be a tournament on the heresy of Horus in my city. 3000 points. I don't like our legion units at all. Please help improve the roster with your tips:

Rite of War: Recon Company

 

+ HQ: +

Huscarl Squad [625Pts]
. 9x Solarite Power Gauntlet, 9x Vigil Storm Shield
. Huscarl-master: Solarite Power Gauntlet

 

+ Elites: +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Melta Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Plasma Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Kheres Assault Cannon

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [410Pts]
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Volkite Dual-Culverin
. 2x Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

 

+ Troops: +

Reconnaissance Squad [240Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [238Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [211Pts]

 

Alpharius [465Pts]

 

++ Total: [2,999Pts] ++

 

Alpharius gives 3 deep strikes to dreads. Therefore, it may be with terms in deepstrike. Scouts can hold the enemy from afar or occupy objectives.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:26 PM, dollar452435 said:

There will be a tournament on the heresy of Horus in my city. 3000 points. I don't like our legion units at all. Please help improve the roster with your tips:

Rite of War: Recon Company

 

+ HQ: +

Huscarl Squad [625Pts]
. 9x Solarite Power Gauntlet, 9x Vigil Storm Shield
. Huscarl-master: Solarite Power Gauntlet

 

+ Elites: +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Melta Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Plasma Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Kheres Assault Cannon

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [410Pts]
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Volkite Dual-Culverin
. 2x Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

 

+ Troops: +

Reconnaissance Squad [240Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [238Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [211Pts]

 

Alpharius [465Pts]

 

++ Total: [2,999Pts] ++

 

Alpharius gives 3 deep strikes to dreads. Therefore, it may be with terms in deepstrike. Scouts can hold the enemy from afar or occupy objectives.

 

 

I just sat there, in front of the Omnissiahs holy flatscreen ... for a strokey 30 minutes and didn't know if I should weep or laugh. Honestly.

Either, this is just seriously stupid bait  ~ OR ~ you're playing in the outright worst 'community' or 'meta' ever to appear on this planet.

What is this abomination of an army list ?

[Dagoth Ur]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:26 PM, dollar452435 said:

There will be a tournament on the heresy of Horus in my city. 3000 points. I don't like our legion units at all. Please help improve the roster with your tips:

Rite of War: Recon Company

 

+ HQ: +

Huscarl Squad [625Pts]
. 9x Solarite Power Gauntlet, 9x Vigil Storm Shield
. Huscarl-master: Solarite Power Gauntlet

 

+ Elites: +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Melta Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [405Pts]
. Gravis Plasma Cannon, Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Kheres Assault Cannon

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon [410Pts]
. Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun, Volkite Dual-Culverin
. 2x Gravis Power Fist with Meltagun

 

+ Troops: +

Reconnaissance Squad [240Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [238Pts]
Reconnaissance Squad [211Pts]

 

Alpharius [465Pts]

 

++ Total: [2,999Pts] ++

 

Alpharius gives 3 deep strikes to dreads. Therefore, it may be with terms in deepstrike. Scouts can hold the enemy from afar or occupy objectives.

Is....is that 6 contemptors? What sort of hypercompetitive WAAC environment are you playing in, Jesus Christ?

[dollar452435]

Sal, NL, DA, IW, AL, Custo, SoH, Ultra.

Our “meta” is this - primarchs, at least 10 terms, Spartans, dreadnoughts. I'll describe the last game. Dark angels set on the table

- Lion, 10 cenobit, spartan

- Farid, 10 cenobits bc, spartan

- 10 inerempers, land raider.

 

I would like to note that we determine the mission after creating the rosters

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by dollar452435

[Dagoth Ur]

That sounds... horrendous. I'm sorry I can't be of more help but I'm afraid I can't really advise a list for a meta in which I would rather just not play at all.

[Gorgoff]

15 hours ago, dollar452435 said:

Sal, NL, DA, IW, AL, Custo, SoH, Ultra.

Our “meta” is this - primarchs, at least 10 terms, Spartans, dreadnoughts. I'll describe the last game. Dark angels set on the table

- Lion, 10 cenobit, spartan

- Farid, 10 cenobits bc, spartan

- 10 inerempers, land raider.

 

I would like to note that we determine the mission after creating the rosters

 

Horrible.

You guys destroy the experience for yourself. 

[eastern barbarian]

damn... yeah, defo not kind of stuff I would want to play with or against.

[Brother Sutek]

While I can't say I'd ever and I mean ever want to play with your group... if you are having fun go for it. Please stay over there as my group is way more casual and even Primarch are for special occasions only. I don't darn anyone for using them in a tournament etc but they, IMO, don't feel as special if used every game.