Taking Ultramarines to the London GT

[Captain Idaho]

I'm taking the plunge to my biggest tournament yet! I'm under no illusions as to the likely placing I land at, but regardless for the London GT I'm taking my Ultramarines!

I always like to theme but I have dropped a couple staples I would ordinarily go with in a slightly more effective outlook to roll with. Check it:

Quote

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines)

+ HQ +

Captain on Bike [125pts]: Paragon of War, Thunder hammer, Vengeance of Ultramar, Warlord

Terminator Chaplain [95pts]: Catechism of Fire, Litany of Hate, Storm bolter

Techmarine [90pts]: Astartes Chainsword, Servo-arm (old model, unlikely to receive a hack job to his melee but shouldn't be too big a deal), Master of the Forge

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [123pts]
• 4x Space Marine
• Space Marine Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Storm bolter
• Space Marine w/ Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [105pts]
• 5x Space Marine
• Space Marine Sergeant: Astartes Chainsword, Storm bolter
• Space Marine w/ Heavy bolter

Tactical Squad [164pts]
• 6x Space Marine
• Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-plasma
• Space Marine w/ Grav-cannon

+ Elites +

Ironclad Dreadnought [140pts]: Dreadnought chainfist, Hurricane bolter, Meltagun

Relic Terminator Squad [385pts]:

×10 w/
• ×1 Relic Terminator: Chainfist, Combi-bolter
• ×3 Relic Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power fist
• ×3 Relic Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
• Relic Terminator Sergeant: Lightning Claw, Master-Crafted Weapon, Plasma blaster
• ×2 Relic Terminator w/Heavy Weapon: Lightning Claw, Reaper autocannon and Grenade harness 

Venerable Dreadnought [155pts]:

•Twin lascannon
• Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter

+ Fast Attack +

Attack Bike Squad [120pts]
• Attack Bike: Multi-melta
• Attack Bike: Multi-melta

+ Heavy Support +

Kratos [22 PL, -1CP, 320pts]: 2x Lascannons, 2x Lascannons, Heavy bolter, Kratos Battlecannon

Vindicator Laser Destroyer [175pts]

++ Total: [3CP, 1,997pts] ++

What I've found in my tournament and competitive games is that am good on the ground making decisions to score points against lists that otherwise outclass me so I need to determine what those lists are doing that so outclasses my army.

I've came to the conclusion my weakest parts are:

• Lack of a Thunder Hammer on my Captain. If you're gonna fight, you don't want to rely on D2 weapons.

• Lack of Troops. Bare minimum just means I'm holding onto like 3 guys for an objective. More men in each of the Tacticals, with the obvious largest pushing forward, seems prudent.

• Lack of the hard edge to take out stuff that otherwise bothers Marines. To this end, I found it to be Mortarian, Leman Russ tanks, elite Heavy infantry, Knights, large Tyranids... adding the Vindicator Laser Destroyer, Attack Bikes and Kratos gives the army an offensive output in a much shorter time frame. 

Housekeeping wise... the Kratos might yet get a Multi-melta and might even get the Melta Cannon. I can drop a single Marine to make that happen.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I love this list and can’t wait to hear how the Kratos performs !!

[Tokugawa]

If you don't like Gman, then why ultramarine?  Replace the chapter name with "iron hands successor" and the list will just be stronger.

[phandaal]

Flexing with the OG Marines. Nice!

[phoenix01]

Good luck with the tournament. Do the boys in blue proud.

[Captain Idaho]

14 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

If you don't like Gman, then why ultramarine?  Replace the chapter name with "iron hands successor" and the list will just be stronger.

I'm an Ultramarines player.

Besides:

• Sons of Guilliman grants rerolls of ones to hit to any infantry unit regardless of having a Captain (Terminators operating away from Captain). It also means I can give reroll ones to my Captain where needed.

• Avenge the Fallen means any turn an enemy kills a unit I get to mark it for reroll ones to hit for the whole army for rest of the game. 

• Martial Precision can be used with the main Battlecannon but likely I'll be firing the multiple shot profile.

• Ultramarines Chapter Tactic means none of my big tanks will get stuck in melee or be unable to fire for a turn.

• Fallback and re-engage will be great on the Captain. He gets to move 14", shoot without penalty to generate Mortal Wounds then charge with his Thunder Hammer again.

Nothing game breaking but I have options at least.

[Paulinus]

Normally when I play my bike captain with paragon I give him a storm bolter and a lightning claw.  I just like that it gives him the fire power of a squad and a better chance of getting mortals with the Lightning claw.  D1 sucks though lol.

Any reason you didn't take a seal of oath? 
 

keep the kratos battle cannon.  Its versatility is just too good. 

[Captain Idaho]

In my army, the Terminators are often split from the characters after the drop. They're generally the only unit that will benefit from the Seal of Oath.

I still might go that way with it but I'll see. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Hey Captain I’ve decided to take my Smurfs to a GT here in Zona to support you !!

[Captain Idaho]

Cool. What list do you want to angle for? Post it here or in a topic so I can get a feel for where I'm going wrong 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Will post tomorrow.

[Paulinus]

I’m curious to see it as well.  I’m going to a large tourney in Aug and will be bringing my Ultramarines.  Glad to see we have people wanting to play on hard mode lol. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

**++ Supreme Command Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) ++**

****Chapter Selector**:** Ultramarines

**Detachment Command Cost [3CP]**

**+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +**

**Roboute Guilliman ** Nobility Made Manifest, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Warlord

**++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) ++**

****Chapter Selector**:** Ultramarines

**Battle Size [6CP]:** 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

**Gametype:** 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

**+ HQ +**

**Chief Librarian Tigurius ** 2) Might of Heroes, 4) Psychic Scourge, 6) Psychic Fortress (Aura)

**Librarian ** 2) Scryer's Gaze, 6) Empyric Channeling, Boltgun, Force stave, Seal of Oath, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter

**+ Troops +**

 

**Infiltrator Squad **
. **4x Infiltrator:** 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. **Infiltrator Sergeant**

**Intercessor Squad ** Bolt rifle
. **4x Intercessor:** 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. **Intercessor Sergeant:** Thunder hammer

**Intercessor Squad ** Bolt rifle
. **4x Intercessor:** 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. **Intercessor Sergeant:** Power fist

**+ Elites +**

**Ancient in Terminator Armour ** Chapter Command: Chapter Ancient
. **Powerfist and Storm Bolter**

**Apothecary ** Chapter Command:  Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter

**Relic Terminator Squad **
. **Relic Terminator:** Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. **Relic Terminator:** Chainfist, Combi-bolter

. **Relic Terminator:** Combi-bolter, Power fist

. **Relic Terminator:** Combi-bolter, Power fist

. **Relic Terminator Sergeant:** Chainfist, Combi-bolter

**Victrix Honour Guard ** Victrix Honour Guard, Victrix Honour Guard

**+ Fast Attack +**

**Inceptor Squad ** 3x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

**+ Heavy Support +**

**Centurion Devastator Squad **
. **Centurion:** Grav-cannon, Hurricane bolter

. **Centurion:** Grav-cannon, Hurricane bolter

. **Centurion Sergeant:** Hurricane bolter, Two Lascannons

**Eradicator Squad ** Melta rifle

. **2x Eradicator:** 2x Bolt pistol

. **Eradicator Sgt**

. **Eradicator with MM:** Multi-melta

 

**++ Total: [110 PL, 6CP, 2,005pts] ++**

[Captain Idaho]

I think it's good mate.  I think you'll do great holding objectives and the Gravis troops should be quite powerful from reserve.

Terminators for objective taking across the table?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I typically hold the terminators in reserve to see where they need to go… if they can grab an objective all the better.

Thanks !!

[Captain Idaho]

Gave a trial out of some units to see how it went vs my friend's Space Wolves. Most of the same but without the Kratos, a Leviathan and an Selfless Healer Apothecary.

I also trialled the Terminators marching up the table with the Apothecary in tow to save on Command Points for their use. Commanding Oratory is great but 2 Command Points is steep when the game now starts with 6 Command Points. 

I don't like that change. It hurts Strategum usage that is more flexible and fun but also means a 2CP coating Strategum is fairly terminal to your ability to react to any of your opponent's moves whilst having other optipns. Especially if you spend some at the beginning of the game.

• Anyway, the Paragon of War Captain did well for the threat though I rolled a single 6 out of 12 shots plus melee so didn't get the benefit of his potential really.

• The Vindicator Laser Destroyer soaks attention like no tomorrow and can put hurt on vehicles in 1 volley. I'm happy with his performance.

• Both the Ironclad and Venerable Dreadnought perform well despite being old choices. They're good in an army where other vehicles are the focus for opponents.

• Terminators marching worked well enough. I'd imagine against Tau I'd still want to drop in but people can screen easily enough. I might drop the Chaplain and swap him for an Apothecary to keep them running as a centrefield threat but I do like the flexibility to be able to drop as it forces opponents to deploy and move on certain ways.

Overall happy with initial test game.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why’d you drop the Kratos? I’m curious to know.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh I haven't dropped it from the tournament list, sorry I wasn't clear. It was a trial game for me and friend so it was more a concentration on what we could get out of the game whilst having fun.

The Kratos will definitely feature!

Edited July 27, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Xenith]

I'm not too big on Thunderhammers now with Armour of Contempt - it's mostly marines (and knights) you want the D3 for, and now they effectively make the hammer AP-1 until assault doctrine.

Are you trying to keep away from Primaris? Just thinking that the Pimaris Chaplain on bike with benediction and paragon of war might be funny - you lose vengeance, however you gain potential 4D from Mantra, and also get double mortals on 6's to wound in melee. 

I'm not a fan of too many characters - boots on the ground wins for me. Like you could swap chaplain and techmarine for a Lt to give the terms reroll 1's to wound to replace catechism. You also have a good amount of decent range lascannon, so I'd be tempted to swap the TLLC on the dread for a MM - 2 shots at BS2+ is crazy. Those should save you about 130pts.

Dropping each marine unit down to 5 again brings this up to 241pts for either more armour to take the heat off the Kratos/VLD, or take like 5 tacs with lascannon and have 150pts left over for other stuff - 2 more attack bikes, apoc etc. 

[Captain Idaho]

You know what, I never even thought about swapping the Twin Linked Lascannon on the Venerable! It's been a staple for so long I never even thought about it! I've been using him quite defensively and thus never needed his power fist as much, so if I took him with a MM it would change that dynamic.

Good suggestion. 

I have been considering the Chaplain's place completely in fact. Whilst nice to get the charge from Teleport, I have fluffed those rolls before and most people can screen it.

I'm actually tempted with an Apothecary to march alongside the Terminators. Gives them 6+ save against each wound whilst allowing him to resurrect one a turn which would help in their role as midfield objective holders and combatants.

I do think the Techmarine is critical for the Kratos though, as he grants a +1 to hit  and also can heal it 3 per turn (Master of the Forge).

I'll have a little think as you bring up some good points with the potential points from dropping stuff. 

Cheers.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Idaho]

Oh and yes I'm struggling with Armour of Contempt outside Assault Doctrine. Though against Marines, funnily enough my Firstborn don't enjoy the Tactical Doctrine anymore so I'm happy to move into the Assault Doctrine more readily as an Ultramarines player using Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

 

[Xenith]

I ran a full TDA list recently with priest in a 10 man shooty blob, the 6+++ combined with 3W terms really soaks up a lot of D3 firepower - say the unit fails 3 saves on 3D hits - you're statistically likely to roll a 6 on the first 2, leaving a termie allive on 1w to eat the 3rd D3 hit, effectively reducing incoming damage output by 1/3. Then you just stand the dude back up again next turn. 

Forgot about the +1 from the MotF - for some reason I thought it was only on Dreads - 15w/game back on the Kratos is nice. My general philosopy from Tyranids is that it's better to take a second of something rather than taking a second supporting unit to make it better - 2 more terms instead of a lt etc, unless neccessary. 

I'll admit I was trying to free up sufficient points in your list for a second Kratos  I think I shaved off 255 without cutting anything significant. You could get another VLD and almost get the techy back for that?

[Captain Idaho]

Cor a 2nd Kratos! You monster! I think that would be a powerful idea in its own right... I might make a topic about it!

It's why I post these topic - other Frater look at things from different angles I might have missed.

Also, gives me something to play with on Battlescribe later 

[Xenith]

If you drop the additional bolter tacs, the chaplain and switch las for multimelta on the dread, then add an apothecary, you're on 1854. From there you can scrounge 30pts to get another VLD, or find 30 and drop the ironclad to get another kratos. However the techy can only buff 1/turn. AT 1854 I'd be tempted to get another 5 man tac squad, or even something like a landspeeder to reach out and grab objectives. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You must be able to manipulate the phase into assault doctrine to make hammers do some work vs AoC. Templars have a vow to do this and it’s highly effective. Basically you want to force the opponent to take invulnerable saves. Seems like -1 damage isn’t as much of a thing so powerfists can do soem work now.