Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Blindhamster]

habit

[Captain Idaho]

Nah, it's because people enjoy a baseline, a standard to provide the anchor to their gaming experiences. Everyone draws their own ideas of what that baseline might be, but the evidence of most people adopting the points changes and balance dataslate for their games (and I'd imagine you'd find those who don't as a minority, even if you looked on the forum for as many people as you could) indicated the baseline is mostly considered to be with those changes by GW.

 

It goes back to what I've said before elsewhere - the game needs a simpler "standard" because GW have created their methods of play but calculated the Match Play is for the competitive when many people just use it as "standard" 40K. Be interesting to see how GW might change that in 10th edition.

[Dracos]

Indianapolis has about 5 game stores that regularly run Crusades and Escalation Leagues along with tournaments. The data balance sheets are all assumed to be in place once they drop. In the stores where one can get pickup games it's just seen as the easiest way to get a "fair and balanced" game against a stranger. Most of us have suffered the pitfalls of a poor codex that sometimes lasted years. Its nice to see this is a thing of the past.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

20 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Indianapolis has about 5 game stores that regularly run Crusades and Escalation Leagues along with tournaments. The data balance sheets are all assumed to be in place once they drop. In the stores where one can get pickup games it's just seen as the easiest way to get a "fair and balanced" game against a stranger. Most of us have suffered the pitfalls of a poor codex that sometimes lasted years. Its nice to see this is a thing of the past.

Only problem with that is everyone has to be up to date on the newest rules change

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That should not be an issue.

[Blindhamster]

If you have a life, it is.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m going to disagree. So are you saying at a tournament they should follow whatever the most slack contestant can play? Lots of other games like Magic TG are just the same. Of course if you’re a filthy casual it doesn’t matter  but organized play should not cater to them.

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

organized play should not cater to them.

I think that may be the point? Like, there should be a form of the game which is well-balanced and can just exist for long spans of time without needed the sort of shake ups we've seen in the Balance Dataslates. That form of the game would be targeted to the casual players who may only get to play a few times year, or who expect the rules in the books they buy to be the rules they need to play.

 

Meanwhile organized play continues along the path its been on for the past few years, where one must keep an ear to the ground all the time.

[Dracos]

How hard is it to read a free PDF? 

[Karhedron]

7 hours ago, jaxom said:

I think that may be the point? Like, there should be a form of the game which is well-balanced and can just exist for long spans of time without needed the sort of shake ups we've seen in the Balance Dataslates.

 

The problem is that those two goals tend to be mutually exclusive. GW is constantly releasing new units and even armies throughout the life of the edition. You could argue they should do more playtesting but that is a moot point. If you want balance, constant tweaks and updates are part and parcel as old armies need to be adapted to new handle new opponents. If you want to stick with one ruleset, it is inevitable that some units will become increasingly out of whack as new stuff is released.

[Orange Knight]

9 hours ago, Dracos said:

How hard is it to read a free PDF? 

 

Why even have a rulebook and codex at this point?

 

What GW have printed on paper is mostly irrelevant currently. 

[Blindhamster]

Not talking about tournaments, talking about ease of pick up games. Couldn’t give a monkeys about tournaments honestly, I don’t really think hyper competitive has been good for the game. 
 

everything gets errata’s, every ttrpg, every card game, that’s fine. But the pace at which rules for the game and factions can fundamentally change now in 40k is absurd, the game isn’t in a good place at all imo (pure opinion)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Why even have a rulebook and codex at this point?

 

What GW have printed on paper is mostly irrelevant currently. 

If you don’t use matched play scenarios the dataslate doesn’t apply. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Orange Knight]

27 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

If you don’t use matched play scenarios the dataslate doesn’t apply. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

You're making a lot of assumptions about what does and doesn't apply to hobbyists.

 

I find the current rules situation extremely tedious and tiresome, but it's important to respect the opinions of others on the forum, even if it differs from your own.

 

The main mode of play for me is matched play. Matched play is advertised as the most mathematically balanced experience by GW. It is not, however, advertised as a strictly tournament play style. It's supposed to have a granular and detailed army building system, but at the moment it's just narrative play with points instead of power levels. There is nothing granular about it!

 

I'm not happy about this, and I'm even more unhappy about the silly volumes of erratas and faqs that make the printed books completely redundant. I'd rather take a new codex at this point. Better yet - a whole new edition. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

What GW have printed on paper is mostly irrelevant currently. 

Which is why i think the printed book system has to go. Why even have them if most of their contents aren't even valid (obvious answer that they're sold for money, aside) for most of their existance?

Edited January 16, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Orange Knight]

1 minute ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Which is why i think the printed book system has to go. Why even have them if most of their contents aren't even valid (obvious answer that they're sold for money) for most of their existance

 

Yeah as it stands currently the printed codex model is completely unfit for purpose.

 

The truth is that I prefer a printed book far more than digital rules. I chose war-gaming precisely because I enjoy the social experience, and because I don't want to look at any screens in my free time when I chose to be away from them.

 

The solution is that GW better plan the codex books and tone down the massive rule bloat that is currently drowning the game. They've made it very hard on themselves to actually balance the experience. A digital option should exist for those that want it, but it's not for me if I can help it.

[Lemondish]

Is this thread still about predicting primaris or...?

[Captain Idaho]

=][= Yes, back to the topic at hand with you! I've also removed some posts to make that clearer, including my own rather well thought out and brilliant contributions. We're all guilty of getting carried away here so no harm, no foul going forward. =][=

Edited January 17, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Cleon]

At this point it's a race between Primaris and Horus Heresy marines as to who gets plastic jump melee troops first... 

 

Although to diverge from that glaring omission, it's possible that with Dark Angels on the imminent horizon we might get a less easy build bike kit if they get a dedicated Primaris Ravenwing unit (in my ideal world that'd be an upgrade sprue to a wider bike kit that isn't repeating the same 3 dudes or converting, but current GW would be a Dark Angels unit only kit.

[Lemondish]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

=][= Yes, back to the topic at hand with you! I've also removed some posts to make that clearer, including my own rather well thought out and brilliant contributions. We're all guilty of getting carried away here so no harm, no foul going forward. =][=

Oh no, it would (I think) have been better to just spin it off in the future. Always preferred (in my humble opinion) over removal, because there actually was some pretty passionate takes there, and that's always good to see. Oh well, moving on :)

 

3 hours ago, Cleon said:

At this point it's a race between Primaris and Horus Heresy marines as to who gets plastic jump melee troops first... 

That's exactly what it feels like, doesn't it. I want flying primaris rocket hammers (thunder hammers POWERED by rocket thrusters, a la Rein from OW) because it's been a hot minute since we got both an unnecessary new nearly redundant weapon profile alongside a truly absurd (but awesome) new model concept. I think we all know to expect that new dread and missile squad, but jump packs and terminators would be so great to see next. I don't think we've heard of any unique primaris twists on either, have we?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Lemondish

[Orange Knight]

5 hours ago, Cleon said:

At this point it's a race between Primaris and Horus Heresy marines as to who gets plastic jump melee troops first... 

 

Although to diverge from that glaring omission, it's possible that with Dark Angels on the imminent horizon we might get a less easy build bike kit if they get a dedicated Primaris Ravenwing unit (in my ideal world that'd be an upgrade sprue to a wider bike kit that isn't repeating the same 3 dudes or converting, but current GW would be a Dark Angels unit only kit.

 

I think Games Workshop do need to take some of the ideas from the Horus Heresy in terms of upgrade sprues once the jump-pack Primaris are released.

 

Ravenwing Outriders

Death Wing Aggressors 

Primaris Death Company 

Primaris Sternguard

 

All of these kits could be achieved with upgrade sprues, and they could do even more down the line for more chapter specific units. If they release extensive upgrade sprues for each chapter they could update a lot of them simultaneously. Some more "special" units could still receive individual releases, like the Sanguinary Guard.

[WrathOfTheLion]

They'll do the outriders, but almost certainly not aggressors, as they're already well established as greenwing and not deathwing.

 

I was going to post a thread about predicting/wishlisting Dark Angels kits in particular, given the rumors of a range refresh and Lion El'Jonson, as that sounds a bit fun.

 

For an actual prediction, I expect the command squad will actually get filled out. There was the event exclusive Bladeguard Champion, which makes me wonder if we'll get a Bladeguard Champion/Apothecary, then maybe a standard (non-bladeguard) champion to go with the normal ancient and the apothecary. Although they may just say all champions are bladeguard champions.

Edited January 17, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I hope y’all get some cool new Primaris units you’ll enjoy playing.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

I hope y’all get some cool new Primaris units you’ll enjoy playing.

I do think if Lion El'Jonson comes out, almost certainly a major Dark Angels release will follow due to simple marketing.

 

I have some ideas on what we'll see due to model kit trends for GW, but I need to spend some time compiling it before I start the discussion.

[Blindhamster]

For sure, there’s going to be a lot of new dark angels, excited to see them despite being very jealous as a blood angel player