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Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?


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"It's over, Johnny!"

Or:

"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends..."

Except when it does.

As we've now passed the five-year mark since the Primaris introduction, I figured I would do a quick(?) update on my previous "Predicting Primaris" post as I think we've effectively hit the halfway mark now.

So I do think there's light at the end of the tunnel where the generic Primaris range is concerned. I am taking Alpharius (via Valrak) as genuine in his information that the only two new units in the immediate future are the Brutalis Dread and the Desolator Squad.

Quite a change from the 8.2 range expansion where we got the Shadowspear box followed up by the full Phobos MPK range. A total of four new squads (counting the box-only Suppressors), four new character models, and two vehicles, with the Executioner popping up in the middle of all that as a tie-in drop with Apocalypse.

So going from that to an apparent 9.2 range expansion with just two new units/kits and potentially some new models for already-existing datasheets (y'think MAYBE GW will get around to releasing a widely-available Lieutenant model with an actual Stalker Bolt Rifle? The 500th-store Lieutenant was the only model to include that option to date and its availability, even through exclusive channels, ended over three years ago. Yet the option still remains on the datasheet. The word "Chapterhouse" comes to mind for some reason...)

I don't think the downsizing from the 8.2 expansion to the 9.2 expansion is due to any scaling back in GW's sales forecasts for Primaris models. I think we're just simply nearing the end of the range and they want to save their one last big "hurrah" for the 10th-Ed launch wave.

After that, I still think we will see a 10.2 wave, but that again I think will be a very focused set of models.

And after THAT, I think we're done.

Don't get me wrong - there will still be plenty of one-off vehicle and character drops, along with a plethora of chapter-specific models, but as far as the rank-and-file, the squads that form the actual framework around which the range is built, I think those will all be out before the end of 10th.

So what's coming?

Well, first thing up is this almost-stealth 9.2 release (which could be one and done in a single week given the lack of chapter-specific models this time out). Again, it sounds like we're getting the Brutalis "melee" Dread and the rocket-wielding Desolators.

(You want a sign of the end times? If the Desolators are wearing Tacticus, they will mark the first time that we've had two squads sharing the same armor mark, battlefield role, AND force org slot - no, Outriders and the Invader don't count as the latter has no Sergeant option even though they can be taken as a three-vehicle unit).

I also think we'll see an upgrade kit similar to what the Black Templars got with plastic versions of the relics in the main codex and some new bits for the Intercessor Sergeant wargear options (not actual new weapons for the Sergeants, just availability of those options that don't require buying an Assault Intercessor kit). I also still think this kit will include new "fifth man" options, whether new stuff like the Pyreblaster or simply an upgunned version of whatever Bolt Rifle variant their squad is carrying (a la the Heavy Intercessors).

After that, it will be hang-on time once again as we wait for the launch of 10th next summer (and please don't take my apparent certainty on that as some kind of indication that I have or am posturing to have inside info. I've been wrong enough to make it obvious I don't have any kind of inside track and don't really care to. At least as-is, I can wait AND speculate. If I knew for sure what was coming, it'd just be down to "wait" which isn't nearly as fun).

What will come in Tenth Ed?

I think as far as squads, we're down to the following:

"Oppressors" - the real Primaris "Assault Marine" equivalent. Omnis fellows with a loadout somewhat close to the Assault Intercessors' Chainsword and Heavy Bolt Pistol mix. Very likely to first show up in the 10th-Ed launch box as a monopose squad and later share a multi-build MPK box with the long-awaited Suppressors. And could see some sort of tie-in shenanigans with Space Marine 2 (although let's be honest - said "tie-in" will more likely just be a Titus model).

"Breachers" - ye olde Primaris "Terminators." Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers. Personally, I wouldn't mind if GW insists on differentiating them from actual Terminators as long as they are in the same ballpark. If they want to release a REAL Primaris (or Primaris-sized but lacking the keyword) Terminators kit down the road, I'm fine with that.

"Also Breachers" - given that the first rule of Warhammer is still "GW loves money," I would not be at all surprised if GW spread the "Terminator" and "Assault Terminator" love between a couple of different squads. These guys might get a different breaching shield, but they'd also come with a ranged main weapon. If GW ever intends to release an "Assault Bolt Rifle" this would be the place. Imagine Cawl looking at the recently-announced Navy Breachers for Kill Team and thinking "yeah, I can do that better."

"Shriekers" - Vanguard Veteran EQs in Shrike-pattern armor with the same weapons, albeit in standard rather than relic form.

And that will pretty much take care of the 10th-Ed launch wave, alongside of course a few new character and vehicle models. Look for a Jump Captain, SOMETHING on bike, and a Primaris Champion who didn't leave home without his Combat Shield or Bolt Pistol. Also likely we'll get an MPK Outrider squad, a Whirlwind/Hunter/Stalker multi-build kit, a Flyer, and as likely as not a Primaris Drop Pod. Plus there's plenty of opportunity for Gravis characters.

So then what's left for the inevitable 10.2 wave?

Scouts, baby!

I don't think there's much doubt that Primaris Scouts will eventually be a thing. The Black Templars Neophytes pretty much gave the game away on that. And as the range would essentially be circling the drain at this point, I could see GW basically doing a "Vanguard 2.0" wave here and release multiple kits to replace the existing Squad boxes.

I do NOT see a Primaris version of the Land Speeder Storm happening. I think the Impulsor pretty much fills that role (among others).

But a Scout Bike Squad? With the Outriders confirming that Primaris aren't zipping around on grav-bikes, a bike squad for the Primaris Scouts would be a natural thing.

The "default" Primaris Scout box would probably offer Bolt Carbine, Combat Knife, and Shotgun options, but unlike the Firstborn version, Primaris Scouts would be held to the same "everyone carries the same weapon" rule. And any Black Templar players salty about the generic Scouts getting a Shotgun in their kit without having to buy an upgrade frame can console themselves with the fact that they got THEIR Scout equivalent and Shotgun options about four years ahead of the rest of us. Sometimes exclusivity has a price.

And lastly, I think a Primaris Sniper Squad will be its own thing and (again, unlike Firstborn) will be a separate datasheet. They won't be as punchy as Eliminators but they'll have their own niche. And no, I don't see GW rolling them into the regular squad kit as I expect these models to have camo cloaks and - as with the Eliminators - the models will pretty much be defined by those cloaks.

...and THAT, I think, will be that.

Going forward, there will be the odd occasional generic kit (Overlord, anyone?) but I do think 10th-Ed will essentially seal the deal for the *generic* Primaris range. After that, it will be time to shift over to chapter-specific model waves for the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves, along with some Deathwatch goodies and more likely than not something special for the Blue Boys. I could also see the 10.2 chapter supplements being accompanied by chapter-specific upgrade kits like the Templar frame with relics from the individual chapter supplements and some more heads for the standard Battle Brothers and Scouts.

Don't ask me WHAT they're going to do for the Eleventh-edition launch. I do think that will come in 2027, which means a four-year lifecycle for Tenth, but I don't really have an opinion on which Marines - if any - will be included in the 11th-Ed launch box. Obviously I expect the generic options well will have run dry by then, so either they do something chapter-specific or maybe they even try launching the game with a different Imperial faction.

Thoughts?

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I don't think they'll wait until the Marine line is done to toss in BA/SW/DA/etc. They didn't wait for Black Templars, so I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sprinkle those in as we go along.

Agree a lot of these seem relatively thought out. I'd expect there'll be a few more units though that are more out of left field. Some things you didn't expect to have until it's right in front of you.

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5 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Still think it’s more likely the assault type squad will follow the design seen in space marine 2 than a full omnis style like the suppressor squad. Also don’t think we will be waiting 2 years for 10th. Otherwise I think you’re probably about spot on.

Where did I suggest we'd be waiting two years for 10th?

I said 10th will have a four-year product cycle and 11th will launch in 2027 (to line up with the fortieth anniversary of 40K).

2027 - 4 = 2023.

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I suspect the obvious is being missed - new variants of existing units. Squeezing more out of the line.

It'll drag on with the releases. Instead or the (hypothetically) planned releases of Jump Packs, Terminators, Missle Troops, vehicle, a flyer Dreadnought variant and then we're done... it'll be Jump Packs, vehicle, and new variant Hellblasters with some sort of missile Launcher, then next time new Gravis Missile Troops, a different Eradicators with Flamers...

It won't be quick.

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11 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I don't think they'll wait until the Marine line is done to toss in BA/SW/DA/etc. They didn't wait for Black Templars, so I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sprinkle those in as we go along.

Agree a lot of these seem relatively thought out. I'd expect there'll be a few more units though that are more out of left field. Some things you didn't expect to have until it's right in front of you.

I agree about the codex-divergent chapters and should have made that more clear. I was at one point thinking that all three of them would receive a range expansion in 10th, coming in successive years. I am much less convinced of that now - to the point of believing it will NOT happen - but I still expect at least one of them won't have to wait for 11th to get the Black Templars treatment. The other two may at least get a character model or something better than a bespoke datasheet and a box consisting of existing plastic like the Hounds of Morkai or the Death Company Intercessors. But then they'll get a proper release wave in 11th.

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I'd be up for any of these to be honest.

33 minutes ago, lansalt said:

IMO the primaris range will not be "complete" until we get "primaris tacticals" with special/heavy weapons, and being able to use old transports. With a good mix old armour bits in the sprues for more flavor, too.

 

-image snipped-

That's just an Intercessor squad there though :tongue:

Edited by Gederas
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57 minutes ago, lansalt said:

IMO the primaris range will not be "complete" until we get "primaris tacticals" with special/heavy weapons, and being able to use old transports. With a good mix old armour bits in the sprues for more flavor, too.

That would be nice. Cookie cutter units are probably easier to learn and certainly cheaper to make, so it is hard to say if we will ever see it.

Vehicles though, yeah. Just call the drop pod an "Interdictor Domination Pod" or some other Primaritized name and we are good to go.

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1 hour ago, Black Blow Fly said:

It would be awesome if Primaris could ride in rhinos but it’ll never happen.

At the very least it feels like Stormravens, drop pods, Land Raiders, and the Corvus Blackstar should be able to carry them if they do start to loosen the transport restrictions, even if they never go all the way to the Rhino.

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Hmmm, it's hard to say when the range will be complete. There are still a bunch of units that I think would need to be added, and I wonder how many waves of releases it would take.

I don't think they should make the old vehicles more accommodating to Primaris. There is a visual distinction with the new, hover Tanks. I think the idea is to have Primaris as a distinctive future range of Astartes when put next to the Legions of 30k.

I think they could probably release most units that wold complete the capabilities of the range by the mid point in 10th, and then they could focus on chapter specific units...

 

Generic units they should add (some are already confirmed):

-Brutalis Dreadnought

-Primaris Jump Infantry

-Primaris Long Range Heavy Support unit (the missile unit is already confirmed)

-Gravis Chaplain & Librarian 

-Elite Gravis Infantry, similar in prestige to Terminators 

-Primaris Scout unit 

-Drop Pod (update rules for current one or a new, larger kit)

-Primaris Flyer

 

Chapter Specific units that would add lots of flavour to armies:

-Blood Angel Primaris Sanguinary Guard and Death Company 

-Primaris Dante 

-Dark Angel Primaris Bike Veterans & Chapter Specific Gravis Veterans

-Primaris Azrael

-Space Wolf themed Gravis Veterans and Infantry units with Claws

-Primaris Lysander

-Primaris Vulkan He'Stan

-Primaris Pedro Cantor

-Primaris Sicarius

-Primaris Khan on Bike

-Raven Guard Sniper Character 

 

I think those generic units could be done in one or two waves. The Chapter Specific units will also fill the capabilities that the more unique chapters currently have. They could be added as each supplement is updated.

 

Edit:

Some bonus Chapter Specific units GW could make in the future that would add lots of flavour to all chapters:

-Imperial Fist Primaris Breachers with Shields and Grav Guns

-Salamander Gravis unit with Shields and Thunder Hammers

-Ultramarine Gravis unit with Cyclone Missile Launchers

-White Scar Bikers with CC weapons

 

It's funny to think this way, but the Primaris releases have been slow for a while now. Obviously 30k is getting a lot of Marine love, and Chaos Marines just got a new codex, but we've not seen any real growth of the main Primaris range outside of Chapter Specific units since the Heavy Intercessors were added. 

Edited by Orange Knight
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Why? Stick a Crux Terminatus on it, add teleportation, and a sword and shield with some visual flares and you have a new Deathwing Knight.

Look at Calgar and Tor Garaddon. It's clearly a replacement. 

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3 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Why? Stick a Crux Terminatus on it, add teleportation, and a sword and shield with some visual flares and you have a new Deathwing Knight.

Look at Calgar and Tor Garaddon. It's clearly a replacement. 

Please do not pretend like this discussion has not already been had, and that you were not included.

Actually, maybe I will see if I can just find it and link it here, so we can not and say we did.

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I know we've had it. And I assumed it was widely agreed that thematically Gravis armour is not far removed from Terminator.

The biggest difference is that one is revered, and the other is mass produced. Of course that isn't to say that a chapter can't commission Artificer Gravis suits which make use of force fields, teleportation and improved protection.

In terms of visuals, it wouldn't take much to make Gravis suits that combine the new design with the most recognisable elements from the classic Terminator armor. Hence I mentioned Calgar as an example.

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2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Generic units they should add (some are already confirmed):

-Brutalis Dreadnought

-Primaris Jump Infantry

-Primaris Long Range Heavy Support unit (the missile unit is already confirmed)

-Gravis Chaplain & Librarian 

-Elite Gravis Infantry, similar in prestige to Terminators 

-Primaris Scout unit 

-Drop Pod (update rules for current one or a new, larger kit)

-Primaris Flyer

Snip

Edit:

Some bonus Chapter Specific units GW could make in the future that would add lots of flavour to all chapters:

-Imperial Fist Primaris Breachers with Shields and Grav Guns

The characters alone add endless potential for quite some time. It's not just Gravis Chaplain and Librarian as you mentioned, but:

1. Gravis Lieutenant, Techmarine, Ancient, and potentially even Apothecary and Champion. (currently we can't field a legal Gravis battalion, as our only HQs are 3 different Gravis Captains). 

2. Outrider Captain, Lt, Librarian, and potentially Ancient, Apothecary, Champion, and Techmarine. (precedent is set by Chaplain on Bike now) 

3. If jump packs are gonna happen, I suspect the classic character lineup is gonna need those variations as well. 

4. This isn't even bringing up the potential for doubling and tripling down with endless variations of wargear. Just look at how many Captains and Lieutenants we have based on the whim of what pistol or trinket they chose to grab on their way out the door that day! 

... 

I would find it a shame if Primaris Breachers were limited to Imperial Fists. Even tho it's on point for their theme, it's a generic enough concept pulled from the legion. I mean Eliminators aren't just Raven Guard, and Bladeguard aren't just Black Templars. 

That being said, using the Legion as influence, could easily pluck some more ideas riding in  30k's relaunch wake:

1. Primaris Breachers (as mentioned above) 

2. Primaris Destroyers (so many things you could do here)

3. Primaris Seekers (bolter experts/Sternguard replacements) 

4. Primaris Command Squads/Bodyguard Retinues (Loaded down with Artificer Armor and Pre-Primaris Chapter Relics. 

Just to name a few. 

GW will keep going as long as we keep buying. Minor alterations on an old classic like marines will always be a cash cow for them. 

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4 minutes ago, UnkyHamHam said:

I would find it a shame if Primaris Breachers were limited to Imperial Fists. Even tho it's on point for their theme, it's a generic enough concept pulled from the legion. I mean Eliminators aren't just Raven Guard, and Bladeguard aren't just Black Templars. 

And a Gravis squad wielding Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields similarly has no business being Salamanders-only.

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Came back to also remind everyone about Omnis patten armor. 

It's easy to forget and write off Suppressors as a one off. However, I think they are just in a state similar to Reivers when Primaris launched. We had no context for Phobos armor really until Shadowspear. 

Similarly, Heavy Intercessors and Eradicators being added to Aggressors and Inceptors has shown that Cawl/Primaris can be really flexible and innovative in how they push the Primaris paradigms. 

I would bet that GW is just sitting on similar concepts for Omnis Pattern armor. Since Suppressors are Fire Support (FA), they will at minimum need a Battleline (Troop) and a Close Support (probably another FA but could be Elite) variants. Not too mention character support. Probably, at minimum, a Captain and Lieutenant. 

Edited by UnkyHamHam
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12 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I know we've had it. And I assumed it was widely agreed that thematically Gravis armour is not far removed from Terminator.

The biggest difference is that one is revered, and the other is mass produced. Of course that isn't to say that a chapter can't commission Artificer Gravis suits which make use of force fields, teleportation and improved protection.

In terms of visuals, it wouldn't take much to make Gravis suits that combine the new design with the most recognisable elements from the classic Terminator armor. Hence I mentioned Calgar as an example.

Pulled out some comments rather than say "read the whole thread again," but you can of course read the whole thread again if you like.

Here: https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/374800-10th-ed-rumours-take-salt-as-needed/page/4/#comment-5841672

 

Here: https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/373442-size-increases-and-terminators/page/2/#comment-5805416

And here is one that sums up my feelings pretty well:

As stated before, I probably own more Gravis than most because I like all of the sets. More Gravis would be great. It just is not Terminator armor, and it would be nice if people would stop casually suggesting that Dark Angels players should lose iconic units with decades of enduring appeal.

There are a ton of other places GW can go with new Space Marines models.

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