Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It could be spelled wrong .

[Malakithe]

We need that translator guy to pronounce it for us 

[Captain Idaho]

To he honest, it is a little bit wishlisty in how comprehensive to "completing the lije" it is and the mention of the Overlord strikes me as a red flag.

[Orange Knight]

The rumours mention an "Overlord Dropship" but I'm pretty sure the vehicle mentioned in the novels is an "Overlord Gunship."

 

Maybe this is a smaller variant designed to deliver troops to tighter, hot zones?

 

But who knows? The whole thing could be fake. GW would be capable of creating a large plastic flyer now at least.

 

Edit:

 

Truth be told I really don't want this to be the Space Marine Lord of War. I would much rather have a giant Tank or Dreadnought. I generally don't like flyers in the game - how they look on the table, the stands, etc.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Captain Idaho]

It's possible of course that the rumours are confused and the drop ship is a FW release as a specialty item, like the Manta was.

 

But then, how many people bought the Manta really?

 

It would be just like GW though - "People have asked for a plastic Thunderhawk for years and we've been listening and hear you. So here's a Drop Ship with no real description or historical relevance to the community  that no one asked for. Aren't we great."

Edited February 11, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

If BS were a box...

 

It reads like a sometimes-clever, sometimes-lazy bit of fan fiction.

 

One of the red flags I haven't seen mentioned is the very inclusion of the "Chapter Master" figure in the launch box.

 

These boxes are always themed to include a specific chapter. And even though the rumors have disagreed on what chapter the Marines in the box will be painted up to represent, those rumors all still refer to specific First Founding chapters - Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels.

 

There is only ONE Chapter Master in any of those chapters. Ultramarines and Dark Angels will both already have their specific Chapter Masters represented in plastic by the time 10th Edition comes out. And Dante is on the way. Even if they go Blood Angels, why would they include a generic "Chapter Master" model to represent a well-known character who is going to be replaced by a specific model in a few months?

 

This isn't like the Indomitus situation where they danced around the ambiguity of what's going on with Acheran by just not mentioning the name of the "Captain" model in the Indomitus set. There are a lot of captains in a chapter and even a specific company might have one "assumed lost" for a short period and replaced by someone else (as Acheran himself did with Sicarius).

 

But Calgar, Azrael, and Dante have all been the Chapter Masters of their chapters for a long time and even with Calgar's wounding at Vigilus there didn't seem to be even a hint of anyone replacing him.

 

So while a generic "Chapter Master" model could appear one day, I just won't believe (until I see it) that they're putting one in a launch box that will inevitably be at the center of whatever narrative the new edition kicks off with. Even if you figure they're going to somehow leverage the generic nature of the models while still having them painted up as a specific chapter, I don't see them putting in a character model for whom there can only be one version in most chapters (the White Consuls tried something different and look what happened to them). They know people will buy multiples of these boxes if they keep the models generic in both chapter appearance AND in function within the chapter - every company needed a Captain, Ancient, and Lieutenants a la Dark Imperium. Every chapter could still use multiples of the character models from Indomitus (the codex blurb made it clear there were multiple Bladeguard Ancients per chapter, any Captain or Lieutenant could be duded up in the Sword-and-Board loadout, and even multipe Chaplain-wannabes could be acting as Judiciars at the same time.

 

Not to mention, I still think "Arduanters" was thrown in as a self-dare ("Come on, they're going to IMMEDIATELY know this is fake if I actually write "Arduanters"... or WILL they?")

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Lord Nord

[Marshal Reinhard]

Don't buy the rumor for a second, but I'd be more than happy with it if true, because of the "Primaris Noviates" alone.

 

EDIT: What really kills it I feel is the 3 man primaris, gravis terminators with hammers... it just doesn't square with the rumors of new standard Indomitus terminators with classic loadouts. Also the gravgun backpack marines sounds too specific. Like needed something to fill up the list, so a squad version of Tor Garadon. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Don't buy the rumor for a second, but I'd be more than happy with it if true, because of the "Primaris Noviates" alone. 

 

Yeah, that is the problem - the person who put this together is clearly very aware of what Space Marine players are hoping to see in the next year or two. The "want it to be true" impulse is going to overwhelm the "know it to be ridiculous" judgment in a lot of people.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The rumor regarding Indomnitus Terminators is for Horus Heresy -> so somebody got confused and thought it was "classic" 40K. 
 

At one time there was discussion involving the Overlord early 8th edition and it is mentioned in some novels.

 

"Arduanters" could be mispelt.

 

In regards to Chapter Master any Chapter can field a generic version, including Blood Angels, etc.

Edited February 11, 2023 by BLACK BLΠFLY

[Marshal Reinhard]

3 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

The rumor regarding Indomnitus Terminators is for Horus Heresy -> so somebody got confused and thought it was "classic" 40K. 

Still colour me skeptical that we're getting 2 generic terminators, while completely different from each other, this close to each other. 

 

I would love for it to be true. but just not buying it till i see it. Honestly goes for most generic rumors (ie not that DA then BA are coming, azzy proved that beyond doubt for me)

[Djangomatic82]

Ooph, regarding those names and supposed primarisification of classic units and everything, I'm having a reall emotional backlash against the whole thing.

BUT......

If we consider the whole driving force behind the original primaris switch being GW's need to create new, copyrightable names for their products due to the chapter house decision, and names like Terminators being in all likelihood not at all copy writable, then i think "Arduanter's"  MIGHT be possible.

But I Still Hate It.

[Captain Idaho]

The rumours said they're in new gravis armour, so is that even Terminators. 

 

Seems so off as can't be both Terminators and Gravis!

[jaxom]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:32 PM, Tacitus said:

10th Edition

>New Starter Box Contents: Leonitus Crusade

 

SPACE MARINES

-1 Primaris Chapter Master (Think Gravis but not haunched over, armed with Power Sword and bolt pistol)

There pretty much has to be some sort of Captain.  If its a new one, but not a totally new one, I'm not sure of why.

 

-1 Primaris Prosecutor (armed with a two-handed axe) 

Company Champion? Lieutenant #452?  Something totally new like a Judiciar?

 

-1 Primaris Noviate Master (Scout Master, armed with Sniper Rifle) 

Primaris don't have scouts as far as I know- they have Phobos armor though.

 

-10 Primaris Space Marine Intervectors (Jump Pack Primaris, have bolter gauntlets) 

Tacticus Jump Aggressors?  The name sounds a little too punchline to buy though. 

 

-5 Primaris Noviates (New Primaris Scouts, armed with Hellblast Shotguns) 

They already used Hellblast for the Melta.  And again - scouts.

 

-3 Primaris Arduanters (New Primaris Terminators, equipped with Graviton Hammers and Shields, in new type of Gravis Armor)

This I sort of buy - but the Captain would have been loaded out similarly.

 

-3 Primaris Instigators (Pimaris with shoulder mounted Grav Cannons)

Already have an Instigator Carbine on the Eliminators, and ML Desolators are on the pre-preorder suggesting Missiles not Grav are the FOTM for 10th. 

 

I don't think the two Strike Forces on Pre-Preorder are going to be the Indomitus release, but I think they're going to hint at what will be. 

One of the major problems with this rumor, and honestly any rumor concerning new Scouts, is well... Scouts. The design interviews which touched upon designing the  Adeptus Mechanicus and Primaris ranges really stressed cohesive visual identity within codex ranges. Every Primaris model shares very specific identifiers, whether it be Tacticus, Omnis, Phobos, or Gravis. Vanguard neatly removed a need for Scouts from a lore, design, and rules perspective; particularly at a time when the rules team was looking to remove a cheap troop choice from what was (in their minds) an elite army. I'm pretty sure the only reason there are anything resembling Primaris Scouts is because of the shear mind-boggling survey response quantity for a Black Templar update.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"Vanguard neatly removed a need for Scouts from a lore, design, and rules perspective…"

 

Yet there now exists the Black Templar Primaris Neophyte for all intensive purpose is the equivalent of a Scout.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Overlords are huge, the Emperors Spear's book has one dropping off two Repulsors at once. I have a hard time believing any rumor that mentions them cause that model would have to be huge. The rest of the rumor sounds plausible, but they describe Gravis as hunched over which is in my mind the second strike against these rumors (bad posture is more of a firstborn thing ). 

 

I also wouldn't really understand the point of primaris scouts other than customer demand. Granted that's a pretty good reason to make them, but I would prefer if it the Neophytes remain the only primaris models in carapace. Black Templars gain a lot of their identity from that kit, and they really should get to have their own unique things.

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Its because I need a lot of neophytes i pine for a primaris scout kit. The big templar refresh was a dream come true in nearly every facet, save we were left with only two body poses for em. 

 

If there is not gonna be primaris scouts, I feel like they couldve just made the neophytes wear phobos. Would have no shortage of poses then.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

Vanguard neatly removed a need for Scouts from a lore, design, and rules perspective; 

 

It didn't, though. The second version of the Space Marines codex - the one that came out the same year as the Vanguard wave - made it explicitly clear that even a newb Primaris Marine in the codex-rigid Ultramarines still spends time as an active Neophyte in 10th company while waiting for their organs to fully develop so that they can join one of the fully Phobos-armored squads.

 

Maybe they'll steal the Black Templars' terminology and make them all "Neophytes" or "Newborators" rather than "Scouts", but they very much still exist in the lore and thus there's no reason to think they'll never exist in-game, particularly given that the Templars' version already does.

[jaxom]

An attempt at framing my response humorously:

 

Sometime during mid M33:

"Chapter Master, we think an adept fell asleep while overseeing the servitors."

"Why's that, Master of the Watch?"

"Well, all the new copies of the Codex Astartes skip from page 13,543 to page 13,730."

"Must be a typo... surely we'd realize if some vital aspect of Astartes warfare were not in our all encompassing Codex."

 

Circa 999M41:

"We need to more information about the enemy's disposition. Nothing is more vital."

"Of course, Primarch. I'll send for Telion and his Scout Squad."

"You mean Telion and his Recon Squad, surely."

"What is a Recon Squad, my Primarch? And I told you, my name is Calgar."

"Recon Squads are fully trained Marines with decades of experience specializing in stealth operations. And I'm the logistics Primarch, surely you can't believe I don't know your name?"

"Oh, we just send novices who are still undergoing organ implantation to scout for us."

"Right, right, send out novices in relatively controlled battle conditions to get experience, or in the most dire of emergencies. But surely it's not part of the normal strategic doctrine?"

"Well, we all make too much noise in our power armour... and stop calling me Shirley!"

[phandaal]

8 hours ago, jaxom said:

One of the major problems with this rumor, and honestly any rumor concerning new Scouts, is well... Scouts. The design interviews which touched upon designing the  Adeptus Mechanicus and Primaris ranges really stressed cohesive visual identity within codex ranges. Every Primaris model shares very specific identifiers, whether it be Tacticus, Omnis, Phobos, or Gravis. Vanguard neatly removed a need for Scouts from a lore, design, and rules perspective; particularly at a time when the rules team was looking to remove a cheap troop choice from what was (in their minds) an elite army. I'm pretty sure the only reason there are anything resembling Primaris Scouts is because of the shear mind-boggling survey response quantity for a Black Templar update.

 

The most major problem with this rumor is how embarrassingly bad the names are, even for Primaris.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The one name is prolly misspelt but bring it up over and over again.

[WrathOfTheLion]

For that thing in particular, there's not much to say until we see it. Whatever GW makes is what they make.

 

It will, however, be very quick to either verify or be proven false, we really only need to see one unit in the set of units proposed, or one unit outside that set (more notably if it's outside the set and in the launch box) and we know its validity.

Edited February 12, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They didn’t show anything for Indomnitus until a major event.

[Nephaston]

I kind of disregarded the most recent leak until anything mor comes out, and used my prodigious skills in wishlisting to make a spreadsheet to contextualize the sheer insane potential for further primaris units.

 

Put in a spoiler, because I don't know such a long image behaves. Seems to have been compressed?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Nephaston
file size

[Tacitus]

17 hours ago, Lord Nord said:

 

 

One of the red flags I haven't seen mentioned is the very inclusion of the "Chapter Master" figure in the launch box.

 

These boxes are always themed to include a specific chapter. And even though the rumors have disagreed on what chapter the Marines in the box will be painted up to represent, those rumors all still refer to specific First Founding chapters - Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels.

 

There is only ONE Chapter Master in any of those chapters. Ultramarines and Dark Angels will both already have their specific Chapter Masters represented in plastic by the time 10th Edition comes out. And Dante is on the way.

 

That's not so much of a red flag.  There have been a couple Terminator Captain models called Severus Agemman on the package or in the fluff but they weren't actually a model for Severus Agemman.  They were a generic Terminator Captain.  For that matter Severus Agemman is a generic Terminator Captain and has no specific datasheet.   With the addition of Chapter Command upgrades, even the generic Space Marine Captain can be upgraded into a Generic Space Marine Chapter Master - and he's going to have the same wargear as a generic Space Marine Captain - unless Chapter Command is going away in 10th, and being replaced by Generic Space Marine Chapter Master Datasheets - which is less likely.  IF it is real, my guess is it's a bit of fluff not anything hard and fast rules related. 

[phandaal]

10 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

The one name is prolly misspelt but bring it up over and over again.

 

Not misspelled - fake. And there is more than one bad fake name on that list.

 

We have Arduanters - gibberish.

 

Intervectors - sounds like medicine.

 

Instigator - named after a bolt carbine.