Predicting Primaris (Again): Will the generic range be "complete" in 10th Edition?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

How much of a stepdown are the fists? Feel more drawn to them lookwise since there's no claw history

 

Its more I think do you value 4 shots of the Fists over the dual attack profile of the claws.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The claws are way better tactically speaking.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Valrak the Leak Whisperer is now saying there is some kind of "command box set" coming down the line in addition to the new Dread.

 

No details, he speculated about it today - pretty much the same speculation we'd all make: some kind of facsimile of the existing Firstborn box, maybe with the first generally-available Primaris Champion model and new/old versions of the Captain, Apothecary, Ancient, etc.

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

The claws are way better tactically speaking.

Not really.  They could be better for a given theme/chapter.  For other chapters/builds it could be the Fists.  Much like the MM vs the HB. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I said tactically.

[Tacitus]

And as an Ultramarine with Scions of Guilliman and Codex Discipline I might be able to get more use out of the gun/fist builds than the claw builds.   White Scars could go either way - Fall back Shoot, Charge (Fists), or Move, Advance, Charge (Talons).   It depends on the shenanigans available to you. 

[DesuVult]

The bolters on the fists provide almost nothing.  The claws are mechanically superior.

[Orange Knight]

15 minutes ago, DesuVult said:

The bolters on the fists provide almost nothing.  The claws are mechanically superior.

 

But aesthetically inferior.

 

What the Fists do provide is enough dakka to clear out a light infantry unit before you engage them in combat.

 

I do agree that the Claws are overall the better choice. And I'm certain they'll be the inferior option in the next edition lol.

[Marshal Reinhard]

10 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

But aesthetically inferior.

 

It's not a categorical statement. To some chapters (Blood angels!) the claws are more appealing because they're claws. I happen to fall on the side where fists feel more right, though that's seemingly taking a hit for my aesthetic preference.

[Sir Clausel]

I feel like converting a leviathan dread with claws to use as a brutalis :p pretty much same size but the base. Their claws look better in my opinion :)

[Marshal Reinhard]

With both dreads in plastic and similiar size, I wonder how well the kits mix, if at all?

[Sir Clausel]

I will just use the leviathan as base and convert the meltas from the flamers or volcite in the chest and replace the missil launcher on top with something that could work as a twin heavy stubber :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

But aesthetically inferior.

 

What the Fists do provide is enough dakka to clear out a light infantry unit before you engage them in combat.

 

I do agree that the Claws are overall the better choice. And I'm certain they'll be the inferior option in the next edition lol.

competitively there’s no reason not to take the fist.

[Blindhamster]

9 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

competitively there’s no reason not to take the fist.

If you’re a blood angel, the sword is very viable

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Brutalis has a sword option ?

[WrathOfTheLion]

@Chapter Master Valrakalso mentioned recently rumors about a possible chapter/company command box, which I know we discussed many pages ago (or maybe even in the previous thread) as a really likely thing for them to address. So I tend to think that one likely, for the reasons we mentioned at the time.

Edited February 26, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Makes me wish I'd mentioned it on this very page...

[redmapa]

I hope that rumor pans out because the only thing missing from a command squad are company veterans and primaris do need that kind of unit, one with access to different load outs and to represent the elite of the chapter and it'd be one step closer for the return of company veterans on bikes! Thats a unit entry I miss so very much, specially now that Outriders look really cool.

Edited February 26, 2023 by redmapa

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Lord Nord said:

Makes me wish I'd mentioned it on this very page...

Sorry, I skipped past all the dreadnought fist/claws part and that was right in the middle of it 

 

We'd mentioned it a while ago I know, it comes up on page 2(ish) of this thread, but I think we discussed it even prior to that, as this thread starts after the event Champion was shown off.

Edited February 27, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Tacitus]

8 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

competitively there’s no reason not to take the fist.

Yes there is - As already mentioned there's a few chapters that will lean into the fist with fall back and shoot or some other mechanic, there's some chapters that will lean into the claws with advance and charge or some other mechanic.   Neither option is universally superior. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Though I don't really play, I feel like BT have some of the best current rules to lean into claws and multimelta. 5++ means it'll take more incoming fire to stop it from getting close to things, which frees up your other stuff from getting shot at. Or they do shoot your other stuff and it gets close and can unleash its fury. Distraction carnifex supreme.

 

It's not like the claws couldn't work aesthetically with my chapter, just prefer the fist look.

[Guest Triszin]

I think 10th initial wave of "generics" will round out most basic choices for Marines.

 

But I also expect a lot, lot, of chapter specifics in 10th.

And wouldn't be surprised if we get multiple super upgrade kits ala bt box

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Triszin

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Triszin said:

I think 10th initial wave of "generics" will round out most basic choices for Marines.

 

Desolators provide our long-ranged fire support so that is our Devastator-equivalents. We just need and Assault Squad equivalent and a Terminator equivalent (unless you feel Aggressors and BGVs fill that niche). If we get those in the 10th edition drop wave, I hope that the next wave will feature some Chapter-specific units for Wolves and Blood/Dark Angels.

[Mike8404]

4 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Desolators provide our long-ranged fire support so that is our Devastator-equivalents. We just need and Assault Squad equivalent and a Terminator equivalent (unless you feel Aggressors and BGVs fill that niche). If we get those in the 10th edition drop wave, I hope that the next wave will feature some Chapter-specific units for Wolves and Blood/Dark Angels.

That's why I think the rumors about the new Primaris Terminators are true.  They're name is based on an actual word in the same vein as GW names some of their units, and they're in Gravis armor.  I think Aggressors are a good Terminator equivalent, but they aren't an exact fit.  BGV seem to be more of a Company Veterans/Honor Guard equivalent which Primaris are still in need of too

[Kallas]

27 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

I think Aggressors are a good Terminator equivalent, but they aren't an exact fit.

I do find it kind of ridiculous how people don't consider Aggressors to be Terminator equivalents, they do exactly the same job.

• Anti-infantry guns? Yup. Boltstorm/Fragstorm vs Storm Bolter.
• Big punch? Yup. Boltstorm Gauntlets vs Power Fists...which are functionally identical.
• Heavy armour? Yup. T5 vs Sv2+, which against a lot of stuff is roughly equivalent, the main difference is the lack of 5++.
• Relatively slow compared to the baseline? Yup. Both are Mv5", though Aggressors have Assault weapons so are more mobile overall.

Basically no Primaris unit is an exact fit for a Firstborn unit bar the Outriders, who are just Chainsword Bikers with a bonus rule to make them more Chainsword-y.