HH 2.0 The Forges of Mars: Mechanicum Tactia

[Slips]

Tactica thread for the Armies of the Omnissiah.

[Dagoth Ur]

So how do we feel about Myrmidons? I'm really happy that we can now finally build a proper myrmidon cult list but I have to confess that I am slightly struggling with how to equip them. The Destructors seem pretty decent in general, what with their culverins dishing out good amounts of shots. Two irradiation engines and one darklight lance seem like a decent, if expensive build too. Same goes for the Secutors. The Maxim bolters strike me as very meh; I am very tempted to either go full Volkite or full Plasma. The latter in particular seems pretty killy but also expensive as hell.

What do my fellow Archimandrites think?

[The Scorpion]

While the concept of a Myrmidon army sounds amazing, I'm put off by two things: Posability and kit options.

 

Every 3 Myrmidons you will be forced to repeat the same poses, which is much more noticeable on highly individualized models than on uniformed units like space marines.

 

Second, every kit comes with only one of every option. If you don't want to convert said options, you will have to purchase multiple kits.

[Brofist]

Secutors are one of your few decent melee options, so volkite or maxim are your best options there. Plasma is good for hunting MEQ and TEQ in a pinch. I would skip the volkite on destructors as you need volume of fire to make them work well and 40ppm for 5 shots is a lot. Instead you'll want imploders for hunting armor, or darkfire cannons and irradiation engines for fire support. You don't need many irradiation engines either. 1 or 2 is usually all you need. Keep 1 around in a unit for area denial or take a pair and go hunt MEQ.

[N1SB]

I regularly used Myrmidon Destructors in HH 1.0, was catching up on reading the changes in HH 2.0 Liber Mechanicum.  I agree with the above and share my notes.

On 8/25/2022 at 7:56 PM, The Observer said:

So how do we feel about Myrmidons? I'm really happy that we can now finally build a proper myrmidon cult list but I have to confess that I am slightly struggling with how to equip them. The Destructors seem pretty decent in general, what with their culverins dishing out good amounts of shots. Two irradiation engines and one darklight lance seem like a decent, if expensive build too. Same goes for the Secutors. The Maxim bolters strike me as very meh; I am very tempted to either go full Volkite or full Plasma. The latter in particular seems pretty killy but also expensive as hell.

What do my fellow Archimandrites think?

 

 IMHO, you want Myrmidons sheerly for their guns 

 

I think you noticed the Myrmidon unit profiles, for their points cost, aren't the draw...you'd take them for the guns they bring.  Like when we were kids, he's the one from school you may not be closest friends with, but he owns that awesome game you really want to play, that's why you invite him to your house.  This obvious point matters when you judge their points cost, you want to look at the total picture.  Of those:

 

Irradiation Engines - the Marine-killer in the Marine meta of HH.  You know what it is: an AP3 Fleshbane Template weapon, but please be reminded it's a Torrent weapon, which means there's all sorts of positioning tricks that make it even better (my friend Timperial Guard, who uses Hellhound Tanks in 40k, showed me the full range of motions).  This is relevant because opponents will use a Sergeant with 2+ Artificer Armour to try to "tank" the hits, so you just have to know to move your unit to avoid him, finish him off in melee most likely IMHO, this is what you take Myrmidons for, and as Brother Brofist said, precisely because they're so good, you only take 2.

 

Conversion Beamers - you'll forget these even exist until you face an AV 15 Fortification in a 3,000+ point game.  Then you'll remember.

 

CAUTION: Graviton Imploders changed - these used to be AP 2 in HH 1.0, the Terminator-killer.  In HH 2.0, they've been nerfed to AP 3 (unless it's a typo).  With I guess they got Haywire on them now, they're more there to kill Vehicles than Terminators.

 

Brother Observer, you mused 2 Irradiation Engines + 1 Darklight Lance for a unit of Myrmidon Destructors, and I agree.  This might be the de facto loadout.  You've noticed I've talked mostly about Destructors with their guns and not Secutors, and it is because I didn't try Secutors in HH 1.0 as I associated Myrmidons' value with the guns they bring (my logic may be my bias and I may be wrong).  Again, I'd look at the total package, the Total Cost of Ownership of the Myrmidons + the guns you want as the real price.

The problem is the other hidden costs...

 

 Mechanicum Transports are like a hidden cost 

 

You know how Transports are, aside from a people mover, like a temporary shield for your guys?  It is especially true for Myrmidons.  Although they dish out damage with Tank-like weapons, they're Infantry and don't "tank" damage back like a Tank.  The biggest problem is Mechanicum doesn't have access to cheap Transports.  There were shenanigans we used like an Ultramarine Rhino taxi service (because they're Battle Brothers with everyone)...it was ridiculous, but a very effective way to move Irradiation Engines around.  Again, this figures into the Total Cost of Ownership issue, the expensive Mechanicum Transports are like a hidden additional cost.

Edit - to share what I did normally, I put a unit of Irradiation Engine Myrmidon Destructors in a "Macrocarid Explorator", the do-it-yourself Land Raider, no upgrades, for which I used a spare Land Raider as a count-as.  It'd carry the Myrmidons then act as a line-of-sight blocking brick for them, to do their Torrent shenanigans.  The total package was a bit pricey, and was worth it every game due to the sheer Marine-melting power of Irradiation Engines, but you see why I warn of this hidden cost.

 

 Despite saying I wanted to...I'm no longer sure I'll run a full Myrmidon army 

 

Now let's put this together.  In the past, probably here on B&C, I mentioned I'd look forward to a Rite of War or equivalent that let me run on Myrmidons.  Like a cat, as soon as I get what I want, I find that I no longer want it.  So here's the rules for the Myrmidax Rite of War:

If only the Myrmidons could get Line Unit Sub-type natively.  Having a Thanatar as a critical dependency is a limitation, to the point that I'd run a standard Force Org Chart army, no Rites of War, just buy maybe 1 or 2 units of Myrmidons with 2 Irradiation Engines in some Transport somehow, play them as high kill-count units.

I'm still pondering about Mechanicum.  Currently, I see them as a good Allied Detachment I can bring for either a Loyalist or Traitor army for Irradiation Engines coupled with cheap Troops to sit on the home objective, i.e. Myrmidons are still a major draw for that purpose.  I want to see what the remaining Liberi bring 1st.

Edited September 2, 2022 by N1SB

[xxxjtmxxx]

how do you make it with bypassing the sarge with is 2+?  

[N1SB]

On 8/30/2022 at 9:40 PM, xxxjtmxxx said:

how do you make it with bypassing the sarge with is 2+?  

Edit - upon further discussion below, this post is incorrect as I misunderstood the change in HH 2.0, they didn't fix the issue at all.

In researching to answer this question for Irradiation Engines in HH 2.0, I just realised this shouldn't be a problem like it was in HH 1.0!

In HH 1.0, the problem was in Wounds Allocation being unit-based (as opposed to model-based), with the closest enemy model to the firing unit being removed 1st.  If the 2+ Sarge was the closest model in the enemy unit, after you apply the Torrent Template, no roll To Hit obvious, but then you roll To Wound, and cause a whole bunch of Wounds.  With the 2+ Sarge the closest, he has to be removed before the rest of the models in his unit, so he gets to use 2+ save for each Wound until he fails one, then the remaining Wounds can eat up the rest of his squad.  In essence, it's like the 2+ Sarge is blocking the Irradiation Engine with his Artificer Armour, like a mother hen.

In HH 2.0, it's not a problem with a fix in the rules under "Multiple Armour Saves".  The opponent "uses the Save of the model to which the Wound has been allocated".  The Wounds are model-based, not unit-based.  The 2+ Sarge can obviously still save on the Wound that he took being under the Irradiation Engine Torrent Template, but he can't "tank" the Wounds for the rest of his unit, each of his squadmates have to Save their own Wounds.

So that's no longer an issue, I'm really glad!  Whoever made changes to this rule knew what he was doing, I'm so amazed actually.

However, the lessons of Torrent placement still apply.  In short, what I used to think was it just gave extra range to a Template.  Like a Flamer, you plop the point end next to your guy, the fat end on the enemy squad, and I thought with Torrent you can just move it forward up to 12", but basically going straight, so I thought the Irradiation Engine had 20" reach (12" Torrent + the 8" long Template).  Instead, you can move the Template 12" and bend it basically 90 degrees, so if you're facing a gunline parallel to you 12" away, you can basically bend the Torrent to hit every single one of them.  Was just my misunderstanding when I started out with Myrmidons, never used a Torrent weapon before.  2 Irradiation Engines is enough for a squad probably.

Edited September 1, 2022 by N1SB

[xxxjtmxxx]

1 hour ago, N1SB said:

In researching to answer this question for Irradiation Engines in HH 2.0, I just realised this shouldn't be a problem like it was in HH 1.0!

In HH 1.0, the problem was in Wounds Allocation being unit-based (as opposed to model-based), with the closest enemy model to the firing unit being removed 1st.  If the 2+ Sarge was the closest model in the enemy unit, after you apply the Torrent Template, no roll To Hit obvious, but then you roll To Wound, and cause a whole bunch of Wounds.  With the 2+ Sarge the closest, he has to be removed before the rest of the models in his unit, so he gets to use 2+ save for each Wound until he fails one, then the remaining Wounds can eat up the rest of his squad.  In essence, it's like the 2+ Sarge is blocking the Irradiation Engine with his Artificer Armour, like a mother hen.

In HH 2.0, it's not a problem with a fix in the rules under "Multiple Armour Saves".  The opponent "uses the Save of the model to which the Wound has been allocated".  The Wounds are model-based, not unit-based.  The 2+ Sarge can obviously still save on the Wound that he took being under the Irradiation Engine Torrent Template, but he can't "tank" the Wounds for the rest of his unit, each of his squadmates have to Save their own Wounds.

So that's no longer an issue, I'm really glad!  Whoever made changes to this rule knew what he was doing, I'm so amazed actually.

However, the lessons of Torrent placement still apply.  In short, what I used to think was it just gave extra range to a Template.  Like a Flamer, you plop the point end next to your guy, the fat end on the enemy squad, and I thought with Torrent you can just move it forward up to 12", but basically going straight, so I thought the Irradiation Engine had 20" reach (12" Torrent + the 8" long Template).  Instead, you can move the Template 12" and bend it basically 90 degrees, so if you're facing a gunline parallel to you 12" away, you can basically bend the Torrent to hit every single one of them.  Was just my misunderstanding when I started out with Myrmidons, never used a Torrent weapon before.  2 Irradiation Engines is enough for a squad probably.

 

ok, but your opponent could also tank the wounds with the 2+ sarge until he Fell. 

[oldhat]

2 hours ago, N1SB said:

In researching to answer this question for Irradiation Engines in HH 2.0, I just realised this shouldn't be a problem like it was in HH 1.0!

In HH 1.0, the problem was in Wounds Allocation being unit-based (as opposed to model-based), with the closest enemy model to the firing unit being removed 1st.  If the 2+ Sarge was the closest model in the enemy unit, after you apply the Torrent Template, no roll To Hit obvious, but then you roll To Wound, and cause a whole bunch of Wounds.  With the 2+ Sarge the closest, he has to be removed before the rest of the models in his unit, so he gets to use 2+ save for each Wound until he fails one, then the remaining Wounds can eat up the rest of his squad.  In essence, it's like the 2+ Sarge is blocking the Irradiation Engine with his Artificer Armour, like a mother hen.

In HH 2.0, it's not a problem with a fix in the rules under "Multiple Armour Saves".  The opponent "uses the Save of the model to which the Wound has been allocated".  The Wounds are model-based, not unit-based.  The 2+ Sarge can obviously still save on the Wound that he took being under the Irradiation Engine Torrent Template, but he can't "tank" the Wounds for the rest of his unit, each of his squadmates have to Save their own Wounds.

So that's no longer an issue, I'm really glad!  Whoever made changes to this rule knew what he was doing, I'm so amazed actually.

However, the lessons of Torrent placement still apply.  In short, what I used to think was it just gave extra range to a Template.  Like a Flamer, you plop the point end next to your guy, the fat end on the enemy squad, and I thought with Torrent you can just move it forward up to 12", but basically going straight, so I thought the Irradiation Engine had 20" reach (12" Torrent + the 8" long Template).  Instead, you can move the Template 12" and bend it basically 90 degrees, so if you're facing a gunline parallel to you 12" away, you can basically bend the Torrent to hit every single one of them.  Was just my misunderstanding when I started out with Myrmidons, never used a Torrent weapon before.  2 Irradiation Engines is enough for a squad probably.

 

I am reading on page 170-172 and it works like your HH 1.0 example. It says under "Allocate Wounds" that you "select any one model in the unit that is within line of sight and range of the attacking unit". So as long as the 2+ save model meets that criteria it can Mother Hen the wounds.

Specifically it says your unit has to make saves against the wound pool generated by the opponent's unit. You allocate a wound to a model and take a save and repeat until the wound pool is empty or the model dies and you allocate to another model. Under the header "Multiple Armour Saves" it says you can use "the Save of the model to which the Wound has been allocated".

You don't allocate the pool all at once, you roll each save until there is a failure meaning the Sarge can still tank the hits. The template doesn't change that, only how you score the hits in the first place.

[N1SB]

Thanks for the clarification, that's disappointing.  I'll share my literal workaround in HH 1.0 in case it still applies.  It's a bit gamey and likely requires a Vehicle.  There were 3 ways to avoid the 2+ Sarge.

1st, as I understood it, my opponent's 2+ Sarge tanked the hits because he was the closest model, so he took Wounds for his unit because you remove the closest models 1st.  So once I got a Vehicle, I just maneuvered into a position where he wasn't the closest model when possible.  Usually wasn't an issue, just a bit pedantic.

2nd...and this is even more pedantic, really quite gamey...is "Rhino Scoping".  The term comes from 40k Marine armies when you want to single-out just a specific enemy model in an unit, like say, the Heavy Weapons guy in a 40k Tactical Squad.  What you do is you position something...like your Rhinos...that can block your own unit's Line of Sight so you can see only that Heavy Weapons guy.  When you fire, you're technically firing upon the whole enemy squad, but only the Heavy Weapons guy is the valid target, and he eats all the Wounds.  Now we kinda invert that scenario.

Using Rhino Scoping, you position a Vehicle (probably the one that transported the Myrmidons) so that you block your own Line of Sight to that 2+ Sarge (and you will probably block LoS to the other Marines closest to him unfortunately) to hit everyone EXCEPT him, thus he's not allowed to use his Save.  Torrent Weapons let you place the tear drop Template with more freedom, but it still follows the normal Template rules, like it only hurts people in the firer's LoS.  By blocking your own LoS to that 2+ Sarge, he is no longer a valid target, even if the Template passes over him.

(What is technically not allowed under Rules As Written was positioning your Template under Torrent rules to avoid hitting a specific model.  You're still supposed to cover the maximum number of models possible in an enemy unit, so you can't "stop short" of the 2+ Sarge at the expense of not flaming everyone.  However, Rhino Scoping simply removes him from the equation, you protect that 2+ Sarge from yourself in order to nuke everyone else.)

This was a literal workaround because I was moving around the 2+ Sarge or shooting around him with Rhino Scoping.  Not proud of it, not sure if the solution applies in HH 2.0, and this didn't always come up, but it was how I got around the issue.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Rhino sniping was a thing in 4th, the last time wound allocation had player choice but was limited by visibility. It's super gamey, but so are the character wound allocation rules so they basically cancel each other out. 

[The Scorpion]

What do y'all think of Ursarax?

[Brofist]

In a world with the new WS chart, and only 6+ FNP, they really suffer. Especially when combined with their loss of power fists and the prism rule on their chest lasers. Claw spam is viable, but you need volume to get through elites or TEQ, so you need a big unit. Against MEQ you have better options. You don't even have any good way to attach ICs to to them.

Mech have been railroaded to no longer be very good at melee, so if you're looking at a dedicated mech melee unit, you're bound to be disappointed.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Brofist

[N1SB]

Just a note with the new Legacies of the Age of Darkness: Mechanicum PDF file from Warhammer Community, the most noteworthy thing imho is the Termite Assault Drill being available to Mechanicum.  At 80 points, I think it's the cheapest transport they can get, great to get your Myrmidon Destructors into range.  Edit - thanks to Brother Anvilarium for correcting me!  I can't believe it, they made it so the Termite canNOT transport Myrmidons.

Edited September 23, 2022 by N1SB

[TheNineteenth]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:37 AM, N1SB said:

Just a note with the new Legacies of the Age of Darkness: Mechanicum PDF file from Warhammer Community, the most noteworthy thing imho is the Termite Assault Drill being available to Mechanicum.  At 80 points, I think it's the cheapest transport they can get, great to get your Myrmidon Destructors into range.

Such good news!

Now, if they would fix the various Knight issues (missing Dominus, Household missing Mechanicum mini-Knights, Armiger rule not well thought out...)

Edited September 23, 2022 by TheNineteenth

[Anvilarium]

12 hours ago, N1SB said:

Great to get your Myrmidon Destructors into range.

Unfortunately Myrmidon Destructors are Bulky(3), and Termites cannot transport units with the Bulky rule.

[N1SB]

7 hours ago, Anvilarium said:

Unfortunately Myrmidon Destructors are Bulky(3), and Termites cannot transport units with the Bulky rule.

Thank you for correcting my mistake, Brother.  I can't believe they have a special rule just for this (actually shows forethought on their part).

Cogsdammit.  On the other hand, they did make Land Raiders available to us now.  That wasn't in the HH 1.0 Taghmata Book.

[oldhat]

I am currently tinkering with lists so I can have an excuse to start a new project - since as I move further away from 40k, I need something to scratch my itch. I figure a non-Marine army would be nice and the Mechanicum automata models look sick. Sooooooooo, here we are - the list!

Spoiler

HQ:
Archmagos Prime on Abeyant [Archimandrite]
MC Paragon Blade, Chainfist
Rad Grenades, Cyber-Familiar, Machinator Array, Augury Scanner
Artificia Cybernetica & Artificia Machina
Ever-Vigilant
[270]

Troops:
(6) Thallax Cohort
2x Multimeltas, Meltabombs
[316]

(6) Thallax Cohort
2x Multimeltas, Meltabombs
[316]

Heavy:
(2) Thanatar Maniple
Cavas x2
[470]

Karacnos
[225]

Karacnos
[225]

[1822]

HQ:
Archmagos Prime on Abeyant [Cybernetica]
MC Paragon Blade, Chainfist
Rad Grenades, Cyber-Familiar, Machinator Array
Artificia Cybernetica
[265]

Troops:
(3) Castellax Maniple [Line]
3x Siege Wreckers & Maxima Bolters
Mauler Bolt Cannons
[310]

(3) Castellax Maniple [Line]
3x Siege Wreckers & Maxima Bolters
Mauler Bolt Cannons
[310]

Heavy:
Thanatar Maniple
Calix, Paragon of Metal
[290]

[1175]

[2997]

The theory:

Spoiler

The idea behind the list is two melee Archmagos - one in each Castellax maniple - slog it up into the enemy lines and start pummeling stuff. The Maulers can in theory pin units, which would help get these bots into combat. The Siege Wreckers give them S10 AP2 Brutal 2 attacks and while only WS3, I think that is still decent. They might not hit with every attack, but each one is gonna kill something pretty thoroughly. Sunder and Wrecker are just gravy. With the Archmagos boosting their combat ability, they should be able to mop up pretty good.

The Karacnos will move up with the Archmagos because both can Battlesmith it enabling PotMS, so it can toss the mortar at one unit and the Locks at others. AV14 w/ Flare Shield and 5HP means I think those should be pretty safe to roll up the table, provided I am smart about it and make sure flankers don't cause me too many issues. The Paragon Thanatar goes up field tossing the Sollex at elite infantry (which would get Precision Shots lol) and more ideally, enemy armor. Shock Pulse is gross. The ranged component of the Rams is interesting - not sure how much that will factor in, but its good to have. They are pretty scary in combat being S10 AP1 though, which will instakill T5 models, which is real nice. IWND4+ is just extra gravy.

The Cavas ones are less impressive in combat - S8 AP3 will mulch MEQ, but not really get through 2+. The real benefit there is the double-firing Plasma Mortars - those should cut through a lot of units with a total of four S8 Breaching 4+ Large Blasts a turn that ignore cover. Rough stuff.

To round it out are two Deep Striking Thallax cohorts with MM and Meltabombs to hopefully drop into the side armor of enemy tanks and pop them (hooray Relentless!). They also can skip Deep Striking and just use their excellent mobility to achieve the same goal. They can also add those Lightning Gun shots to the mix against side armor for some lovely S7 Rending Shred just in case you really need to strip out some HP. Those can also shoot up elite infantry units and hope for those Rends. Otherwise, these dudes are just highly mobile Line units that help me grab objectives.

The obvious drawback here is how elite the army is - 25 models total is not a lot! It banks heavily on its ability to endure punishment and dish it out (in theory). I have no idea if this list will function well but it sure looks fun to paint. So many stompy bots!

Thoughts? Anyone else going this direction with their Mechanicum armies?

[insidion]

@oldhat

There are few issues with your list. First, the archmandrite does not have patris cybernetica so he can't join the castellax, an archmagos only gains it through the cybernetica high techno-arcana. This puts him in an awkward position in combination with the abyant's limitations: it leaves him with only a few choices such as scyllax for bodyguards (being both automata and having guardian subtype). 

Second, I think that the castellax as melee will eventually be disappointing. Yes, they will wreck anything they hit, but with low WS3 they will not hit often and will get outmatched considering the new WS chart. Also, it's important to not forget that krak grenades will autohit, this puts your melee unit in a considerable disadvantage against most marine units. Even domitars with ws4 have poor matchups with most elite marine melee units, as most of those have ws5. 

thirdly, there are a few interesting things you can pull of with cybertheurgy and battlesmith. Unfortunately the upgrades to battlesmith do not transfer over from the archimandrite to the other archmagos, that is bound to the archimandrites detachment. An additonal magos dominus in the archimandrites detachment can do this too. Coincidentally, although the paragon thanatar can't be targeted by cybertheurgy, it can be targeted by battlesmith, so an arquitor from the archimandrite detachment standing next to it can transfer his BS5 to it relatively easy with a mechinator array, regardless if the thanatar was in the cybernetica detachment (for that sweet -2 cover bonus). This makes the paragon thanatar into a unit can can comfortably snipe characters, tanks, sergeants and dreads.   

Also, all automata in the cybernetica detachment gain the -2 cover save bonus from any two cortex controller units, regardless of detachment. Another interesting trick for shootie cybernetica lists is that there is no limit to how often a unit can be targeted by cybertheurgy and battlesmith. The archimandrite on abyant could for example use the ranged battlesmith rite and exortus rite to boost an automata unit's BS to 6, or how multiple cybernetica cybertheurgists could stack multiple bonuses aswell as BS (as it's a flat +1), although BS6 might be hitting diminishing returns on most weapons, it's very good on units with darkfire canons (rerolling 1's to negate the wounds form gets hot). Some rules and limitations regarding multiple detachments within a single mechanicum army work in unexpected ways, but I consider this mostly as a bonus. 

fourth, I think that the key to success for mechanicum is stacking multiple debuffs through shooting and effective useage of cybertheurgy. If you still want to go melee, weapons with blind, concussive or pinning are going to be very important, so get enough ranged units with grav and photon weapons, as blind will level the playing field somewhat and concussive will help with our poor initiative. The rad grenades will also make it easier to wound/instakill most enemies, but most of these debuffs only last a single turn, which makes drawn out combats a negative for mechanicum. Unfortunately, most things have not changed for the better for mechanicum with the new editions, but with clever usage of rules and how limitations now work, there are opportunities to boost our own units and negatively affect the enemy to make up for most losses. With the way that reactions work I personally think shooting with melee as backfield defense is the way to go, as well as trying to see when and how cybertheurgic powers can be used, such as using them in overwatch type reactions. 

I'll post my own army list here later with the theory behind it, but it also involves an archmandrite, a cybernetica archmagos, two magos dominus, two arquitors and a whole lot of automata. 

[insidion]

++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart (2022 - Mechanicum) [1,045Pts] ++

+ Expanded Army Lists +

Expanded Army List Profiles:: Exemplary Units On, Legacy Units On

+ Allegiance: +

Allegiance: Loyalist

Mechanicum

+ HQ: +

Archmagos Prime on Abeyant [210Pts]: Archimandrite, Power Axe, The Logic of Victory, Volkite Serpenta, Warlord
. Artificia Cybernetica
. Artificia Machina
. Machinator Array

Magos Dominus on Abeyant [130Pts]: Laspistol, Power Axe
. Artificia Cybernetica
. Machinator Array

Magos Dominus on Abeyant [130Pts]: Laspistol, Power Axe
. Artificia Cybernetica
. Machinator Array

+ Elites: +

Arcuitor Magisterium [125Pts]
. Arcuitor: Paragon Blade
. . Machinator Array

+ Troops: +

Adsecularis Tech-thralls Covenant [45Pts]: 10x Tech-thralls

Adsecularis Tech-thralls Covenant [45Pts]: 10x Tech-thralls

+ Fast Attack: +

Vultarax Stratos-Automata Squadron [125Pts]: Vultarax

+ Heavy Support: +

Thanatar Siege-automata Maniple [235Pts]
. Thanatar Cavas
. . Thanatar Cavas

++ Allied Detachment (2022 - Mechanicum) [1,950Pts] ++

+ Allegiance: +

Allegiance: Loyalist

Mechanicum

+ HQ: +

Archmagos Prime on Abeyant [215Pts]: Cybernetica, Photon Thruster, Power Axe, Volkite Serpenta
. Artificia Cybernetica

+ Elites: +

Domitar Battle-Automata Maniple [405Pts]: Domitar, Domitar, Domitar

+ Troops: +

Castellax Battle-Automata Maniple  [325Pts]
. Castellax: Darkfire Cannon, 2x In-Built Bolter
. . Two Shock Chargers*
. Castellax: Darkfire Cannon, 2x In-Built Bolter
. . Two Shock Chargers*
. Castellax: Darkfire Cannon, 2x In-Built Bolter
. . Two Shock Chargers*

Castellax Battle-Automata Maniple  [265Pts]
. Castellax: 2x In-Built Bolter, Mauler Bolt Cannon
. . Two Shock Chargers*
. Castellax: 2x In-Built Bolter, Mauler Bolt Cannon
. . Two Shock Chargers*
. Castellax: 2x In-Built Bolter, Mauler Bolt Cannon
. . Two Shock Chargers*

Scyllax Guardian-Automata Maniple [320Pts]: 12x Kraken Bolter, 12x Scyllax

+ Fast Attack: +

Vorax Battle-automata Maniple [130Pts]: 2x Lightning Gun, 2x Vorax

+ Heavy Support: +

Thanatar Siege-automata Maniple [290Pts]
. Thanatar Calix: Paragon of Metal
. . Thanatar Calix

+ Allied Detachment +

Allied Detachment

++ Total: [2,995Pts] ++

 

You'll have to forgive me for using the battlscribe format. This list represents the basis if this type of list, you could scale it down to it's bare bones under 2.5k, but I think that this list shines at +3k. With this list you have 5 scoring units, dedicated ranged anti tank and anti elite infantry, some decent small arms fire and decent melee defences/interception units. 

The idea behind this list is to maximize the utility of each archmagos' abilities, particularly their synergies with buffing automata units, overcoming the inherent downsides such as their inability to do reactions and increase their effectiveness. Most important combinations are the archimandrite in the scyllax unit, which prevents just about anything from harming him until the last one drops. The archimandrite's main job would be to buff the castellax unit with the darkfire canons to BS6 for the rerolls and enable reactions, no shooting or melee for him if possible to keep the 2 reactions per phase. You can add a second arquitor to the army in the allied detachment and let him join the archimandrite's unit as additional protection in melee and double up the cortex controllers. 

The cybernetica archmagos and both magos dominus' can be attached to any automata unit you prefer: just keep in mind that he hast functionally the same level of protection as the archimandrite and benefits form a more sturdy unit such as the domitars and that the vorax would be slowed down significantly by them. These 3 characters all have the same purpose: enable as many automata to react, increase ballistic skill or give out other bonuses and spread the cortex controller range as far as possible. Granting the ability to react and boosting bs should have priority but boosting over bs5 would hit deminishing returns. If you are certain that melee is unavoidable then buff accordingly. The arcuitor has a special task: it serves as the melee bodyguard and buff bot to the thanatar calix, he can grant his bs5 to it via battlesmith and can help in a pinch if the domitars and/or vorax can't intercept melee units. Although the arcuitor can't join the thanatar, he can still just stand there and buff. 

Functionally, this army works best as a close knit set of subgroups, try to overlap as many cortex controllers as possible to enable the cybernetica list automata to get the -2 to cover and spread buffs via cybertheurgy, let the BS5 units (archimandrite and arcuitor) used battlesmith for buffing, let the automata do the heavy lifting. When it comes to melee, the domitars are excellent interceptors/defenders, they aren't fast but hit terrifyingly hard, the scyllax are also decent defenders in a pinch. The vorax are kind of flexible, they don't shoot all that great but are pretty fast and can harass the flanks if needed. Both thanatars and the vulturax have specific targets they should go after and are pretty straightforward. The adsecularis can be used for backfield objectives or meatshields, whatever is needed. 

Good target priority is incredibly important here for both your buffs as well as outgoing shooting. Also, I would like to point out that this list is greatly helped with the panoptica community rules.   

 

[oldhat]

There are some interesting choices there. Vorax and Vulturax seem mediocre to bad on my first pass on the book, with Domitars looking...fine. That 3+ is such a liability, but T7 sure makes up for it and the Concussive is pretty good. Those min squads of Adsec seem very vulnerable. Scyllax are a something I hadn't considered but because of the whole Patris Cybernetica thing, that seems the best way to keep him safe. I overlook the Arcuitor mostly because it doesn't have a model (right?). That is a unit I need to re-read because it seems like a melee unit, which would benefit the list I am working towards.

Yeahhhh, WS3 is a major bummer. I wish there was a way to boost it and I am still reading through the book to find some way that I have overlooked. The S10 AP2 Brutal2 attacks are just scary on a relatively durable unit. Maybe having a Domitar to tag team units would help - lead in with the templates to try to hit Concussive, if that fails charge in and try for it that way and then swing with the Castellax hoping for that -2 WS to have them wipe out a unit. Probably too convoluted to work regularly, though it is some synergy I will keep in mind.

Part of me is just determined to make it a combat oriented army, but I know that isn't their strength.

[insidion]

A combat oriented list in mechanicum seems to be very challenging at the moment, as most dedicated melee units that were good in the previous edition have been nerfed without balancing other units to fill the void unfortunately. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but GW/FW didn't consider melee as our main fighting style. However, it is more than possible to spam debuffs such as blind to make melee units somewhat viable with the much needed fire support. I would recommend the Thanatar calix, Myrmidon Destructors (for rad engines, conversion beamers and to a lesser extent darkfire canons) to spam blind and debuff enemy toughness. I wish Myrmidon secutors had photon thruster or even gauntlets, as that would've been a golden combo. 

 

That said, all hq techpriests and the arquitor have access to photon thrusters and the priest als to gauntlets. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by insidion

[oldhat]

1 hour ago, insidion said:

A combat oriented list in mechanicum seems to be very challenging at the moment, as most dedicated melee units that were good in the previous edition have been nerfed without balancing other units to fill the void unfortunately. I wouldn't say it's impossible, but GW/FW didn't consider melee as our main fighting style. However, it is more than possible to spam debuffs such as blind to make melee units somewhat viable with the much needed fire support. I would recommend the Thanatar calix, Myrmidon Destructors (for rad engines, conversion beamers and to a lesser extent darkfire canons) to spam blind and debuff enemy toughness. I wish Myrmidon secutors had photon thruster or even gauntlets, as that would've been a golden combo. 

 

That said, all hq techpriests and the arquitor have access to photon thrusters and the priest als to gauntlets. 

 

If only Blind (and Concussive) didn't require a Leadership test and was thus more reliable. Otherwise we have to spam them to get the desired effect and even then its not a guarantee and we don't really have any way to impact Leadership (such as Fear), so we can't make it more reliable. Unfortunate, really.

[insidion]

18 hours ago, oldhat said:

 

If only Blind (and Concussive) didn't require a Leadership test and was thus more reliable. Otherwise we have to spam them to get the desired effect and even then its not a guarantee and we don't really have any way to impact Leadership (such as Fear), so we can't make it more reliable. Unfortunate, really.

 

I agree that concussive can be lackluster without any negative modifiers to LD, luckily blind is an initiative test, although it's still a 1/3 chance of failing for most units but it is possible to force both at the same time. The problem to me is that both are tested only once at the end of the shooting phase, meaning spamming multiple sources doesn't add anything, and forcing a test is basically automatic once you hit(blind) or wound (concussive, even if it's saved or discounted). With pinning testing is done immediately after a unit is done with shooting, which does allow us to stack these three at the same time and keep shooting with pinning until a unit does fail an LD test.

Edited October 14, 2022 by insidion

[oldhat]

Bummer all around. At this point I wanted stompy robots to beat face but I just don't see how to make it viable.

 

What are the thoughts on AV heavy lists instead? The Karacnos, Krios, and a Magaera LoW, with some basic units in transports. Probably tough to pull off with the heavy slot being slammed and an Allied detachment only providing one more slot.