HH 2.0 The Forges of Mars: Mechanicum Tactia

[insidion]

16 hours ago, oldhat said:

Bummer all around. At this point I wanted stompy robots to beat face but I just don't see how to make it viable.

 

What are the thoughts on AV heavy lists instead? The Karacnos, Krios, and a Magaera LoW, with some basic units in transports. Probably tough to pull off with the heavy slot being slammed and an Allied detachment only providing one more slot.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its impossible or that you shouldn't do it, if you want run melee I'm only suggesting to support your melee units with disruptive shooting. Something close to 50/50 split might work,  but you might have to figure out what works best in your local meta too. Take a careful look at all the melee units and see if your local group wants to play with the panoptica community faq/rules, as mechanicum gets a much needed improvement and fixes.

[oatyn1]

On 10/14/2022 at 10:08 AM, insidion said:

 

I agree that concussive can be lackluster without any negative modifiers to LD, luckily blind is an initiative test, although it's still a 1/3 chance of failing for most units but it is possible to force both at the same time. The problem to me is that both are tested only once at the end of the shooting phase, meaning spamming multiple sources doesn't add anything, and forcing a test is basically automatic once you hit(blind) or wound (concussive, even if it's saved or discounted). With pinning testing is done immediately after a unit is done with shooting, which does allow us to stack these three at the same time and keep shooting with pinning until a unit does fail an LD test.

I wanted to take on this challenge (Mech list with a combat flavour). It seems apparent that concussive/blind disruption is important. I also wanted to try to make a list that could have at least some sort of narrative coherence. 
 

after a bit of deliberation and research I settled on a theme of “Protector Kill-Clade” (Malagra) pulling some battlefield support, so no cybernetica and no Myrmidons. 

ARCHMAGOS PRIME (Ephemera Incursus, Malagra, WL with The Science of Slaughter)

Rad Grenades, Cyber Familiar, Power Fist, Paragon Blade, Incunabulan Jet Pack, Graviton gun, MC (Paragon Blade) [240]
 

MAGOS DOMINUS ON ABEYANT (Ephemera Incursus)

Augury Scanner, Cyber Familiar, Photon Gauntlet, Machinator Array, Graviton Gun [175]
 

COUNCIL OF EXECUTIONERS 

Arcuitor 1: Paragon Blade, Machinator Array, Data Spike [135]
Arcuitor 2: Machinator Array, Photon Thruster [155]
Arcuitor 3: Servo Arm, Data Spike [130]
 

TECH PRIEST AUXILIA (Interfector) [140]

Tech Priest 1: Magos Auxilia (Artificia Machina)

Tech Priest 2: 

Tech Priest 3:

6 Servo-Automata

 

TRIAROS CONVEYOR [135]

 

THALLAX COHORT (3)

Meltabombs [140]

 

THALLAX COHORT (3)

Meltabombs [140]

 

THALLAX COHORT (3)

Meltabombs [140]

 

THALLAX COHORT (3)

Meltabombs [140]

 

URSARAX COHORT (3)

Power Fists [190]
 

KRIOS SQUADRON (2)

Venator Tank Destoyers [300]
 

MOIRAX TALON (2)

Lightning locks x2 [420]
 

MOIRAX TALON (2)

Graviton Pulsar, Siege Claw [420]
 

NOTES

The ARCHMAGOS is an inexorable beast, but will be at risk of being tarpitted or ID’d by Dark Angels. Clocks out at WS5, S5,T5, I4 3+1A, 2+/3++, using either MC Paragon Blade or PFist against Dreads. First round of combat T4 opponents are down to T3, second round though we are going up to WS6/S6 native thanks to Science of Slaughter. More important though are the Non-fighty features: A) ephemera Incursus causes blind and crucially drops LD by -2 (!!!), conveniently improving the concussive results from the Grav Gun B) Jet pack allows this guy and his Thallax buddies a charge range (assuming no withdraw reaction) of 30” (12 move plus 6 jet move plus max 12 charge) which is really reliable for T1. 
 

MAGOS DOMINUS is redundancy for Ephemera Incursus but also a handy TEQ hunter with a surprising amount of AP2 available. I think of him as Danny DeVito in IASIP: He’s a suicide unit to run right into the middle of an enemy formation and start blasting 
 

EVERY UNIT is eligible to react, all 5 HQ choices are ICs, so Scornful fire applies if any of the HQs get shot on T1

 

TECH AUXILIA is v cute. If I am not going first I will scout that triaros to block LoS to my squishy Thallax for a turn, otherwise they run around being my scoring unit ignored whilst the assassins are ripping face.

 

URSARAX - suck but feel like a fluffy sacrifice unit to soak up overwatch or hunt down rapiers etc 

 

 

[Tanner]

Hi All

 

Just had a couple of quick questions for the council of Archmagi, any help would be much appreciated!

 

Can an IC from a primary detachment join a squad from a Divisio Tactica detachment and embark on that squad's DT? And could they do it in a DT from a Mechanicum allied detachment in an army led by an Archimandrite? 

I've read the allies rules/table/divisio tactica a few times now - I know it says that even Battle Brothers can't embark on allied DTs, but what about if they are the same faction? Just wondering if my Magos or Arcuitor can ride with my Secutarii Peltasts in their Triaros.

 

Second, has anyone had any success with Tech-Priest Auxilia for anything other than cheap source of Line? I had this idea of using a full squad with 6 Servo-arms and 4 Multi-Meltas with full tech-priests maybe led by an Archmagos and/or Arcuitor as a punchy/flexible unit... Give them Lachrimallus (for FNP at T5) and maybe try to use a bit of cover... 

What do you think? Too expensive/ineffectual? Would they just be swept away by the first volley of bolter rounds? I'm wondering if all 10 with servo-arms would be better - even with their feeble WS the servitors still average 1 S8 AP2 hit each on the charge, plus the priests, plus the ICs... 

 

Any comments would be very helpful!

 

Cheers

T

[General Zodd]

If I’ve got your question correct, it falls down at the first hurdle, as you can’t take an allied detachment from the same faction as your primary detachment. It has to be a different faction, unfortunately!

[Tanner]

Yeah Mechanicum is the only army that can take an allied detachment of more Mechanicum if the army is led by a particular type of Archmagos, and they also take other detachments (Divisio Tactica) that are Mechanicum as well… that’s why this is a bit confusing regarding level of alliance and how they interact with each other regarding DTs

 

Cheers

T

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I was under the impression that you are not allowed to ally in other Mechanicum faction detachments unless you bring an Archimandrite ?

[Nagashsnee]

So, this thread has been dead for a while. And as someone who was very disappointed in how the game treated Mechanicum in 2ed (tho looking at at daemons,i guess count our blessings eh?) and then further disappointed with the book we got i understand some of the why.

 

But over the last month or 2 i made a point of getting games in. And manage to play a little over half a dozen. Mostly vs marines and militia.  And there are 1-2 things i am struggling to make my mind up on so hoping others might share their thoughts on the matter.

 

1) Warlord trait? I find both the generic and our own codex ones to be really underwhelming.  Which one are others going for and why? I just flip flop around at present.

2) Warlord, i am torn between going the cheap support hqs, and the 220+ point 'monster'.  I find neither is great, as the 'monster' will get flattened by the dedicated CC warlords out there, but on the other hand without him there is a clear lack of options for dealing with the medium range marine characters and small elite units in CC. 

3) While not in a cut throat competitive scene, people around here do play to win, they might not be WAAC players but no one is making purely lore themed lists either. I find the only real corner stones to make a list around are thanatars and myrmidons.  Every attempt to not field thanatars especially ( tho grav myrmidons are the only thing keeping the dreadnoughts honest) ends in total disaster.  Has anyone had success making at least semi competitive lists without these two? 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[Dark Legionnare]

On 9/25/2023 at 4:47 AM, Nagashsnee said:

So, this thread has been dead for a while. And as someone who was very disappointed in how the game treated Mechanicum in 2ed (tho looking at at daemons,i guess count our blessings eh?) and then further disappointed with the book we got i understand some of the why.

 

But over the last month or 2 i made a point of getting games in. And manage to play a little over half a dozen. Mostly vs marines and militia.  And there are 1-2 things i am struggling to make my mind up on so hoping others might share their thoughts on the matter.

 

1) Warlord trait? I find both the generic and our own codex ones to be really underwhelming.  Which one are others going for and why? I just flip flop around at present.

2) Warlord, i am torn between going the cheap support hqs, and the 220+ point 'monster'.  I find neither is great, as the 'monster' will get flattened by the dedicated CC warlords out there, but on the other hand without him there is a clear lack of options for dealing with the medium range marine characters and small elite units in CC. 

3) While not in a cut throat competitive scene, people around here do play to win, they might not be WAAC players but no one is making purely lore themed lists either. I find the only real corner stones to make a list around are thanatars and myrmidons.  Every attempt to not field thanatars especially ( tho grav myrmidons are the only thing keeping the dreadnoughts honest) ends in total disaster.  Has anyone had success making at least semi competitive lists without these two? 

 

 

Agreed. Though Logic of Victory is my favorite if you have your cybernetica warlord babysitting a Paragon thanatar or such.  Basically acting as a "reactions battery" for the paragon. Can still repair him, and now as a bonus have him draw fire, have him return fire, waddle away (movement reaction), etc... while leaving a reaction in each phase for the rest of your army.  The bonuses to movement, BS, etc... in reactions for the warlords bodyguard unit (another thanatar for example) is fun too.

As fun as that is, things end up in melee (Where LoV is disabled) so for non-cybernetica mechanicum I'd say take stoic defender because, sadly, the best bang for buck is taking it for the multiple shooting phase reactions.  Evade (combined with smiths giving automata the ability to reaction for cybernetics players) is handy for multiple "return fire" and or an "evade" if the dreaded quad-las contemptor is shooting at one of the big toys.  The pinning can come in clutch when hopping over to join some unit with decent guns. Myrmidons and photon/plasma thallax come to mind.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[The Scorpion]

Help me figure Draykavac out;

 

His WT is about being a pseudo-commissar, but his high-techno arcana is about fielding lots of knights when taken in a knight detachment.
Am I right to assume that you are sacrificing one if you use the other?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

In theory, but only in theory, yes.  

 

I see where you're coming from, since the only units from the Taghmata list he's bringing along would be Castellax and Vorax ... which are fearless. 

 

But not really.

 

1.)  You could use his warlord trait ability on Armiger Squadrons with a unit size greater than one. But that would be horrendously costly, if not stupid, sacrificing a 200+ pts. model.

 

2.)  Easy answer:  Bring him, but DON'T make him the warlord.    (Use your Seneschal for that.)

[The Scorpion]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:14 PM, Unknown Legionnaire said:

I was under the impression that you are not allowed to ally in other Mechanicum faction detachments unless you bring an Archimandrite ?

Someone told me once that the Knight/Titan detachment is not an allied detachment, but in my opinion the wording is clear that these replace a main or allied detachment. I don't see why they would be a different thing. If so though, that would be the answer to my Draykavac problems:

 

On 12/12/2023 at 9:23 AM, The Scorpion said:

Help me figure Draykavac out;

 

His WT is about being a pseudo-commissar, but his high-techno arcana is about fielding lots of knights when taken in a knight detachment.
Am I right to assume that you are sacrificing one if you use the other?

He could be the warlod in this 'tertiary' detachment thanks to his innate Archmagos rules forcing him to be one if the main detachment only has basic HQs

[Unknown Legionnaire]

11 hours ago, The Scorpion said:

Someone told me once that the Knight/Titan detachment is not an allied detachment, but in my opinion the wording is clear that these replace a main or allied detachment. I don't see why they would be a different thing. If so though, that would be the answer to my Draykavac problems:

 

He could be the warlod in this 'tertiary' detachment thanks to his innate Archmagos rules forcing him to be one if the main detachment only has basic HQs

 

Topic #1  -  This has been FAQ'd  December 2023

 

Topic #2  -  Your warlord always has to be from your Primary Detachment. Only exception being, they have a rule that states otherwise (like certain LoW Greater Demons), which Draykavac most definitely has not.

[The Scorpion]

On 5/1/2024 at 3:03 AM, Unknown Legionnaire said:

Topic #2  -  Your warlord always has to be from your Primary Detachment. Only exception being, they have a rule that states otherwise (like certain LoW Greater Demons), which Draykavac most definitely has not.

Wdm? He has Feudal Hierarchy does he not?

Still, the point is moot since he'd need an Achimandrite on the main detachment to be taken in a secondary detachment. No thrallmaxxing Draykavac if you take Knights

[Unknown Legionnaire]

- Feudal Hierarchy has absolutely nothing to do with being the warlord or not.

 

- When you take an Archmagos Archimandrite in your primary detachment, you are then allowed to include a regular allied detachment of standard Mechanicum, allowing you to bring a second Archmagos in said allied detachment. This does not say anything about including additional detachments like Questoris Household or Titan Maniple (see the abovementioned FAQ),

 

- Again:  Your warlord always has to be from your Primary Detachment. Only exception being, they have a rule that explicitely states otherwise (like Ka'Bandha for example).

 

- Draykavac can only be your warlord, if he (it ?) is part of your primary detachment.

 

- You have now successfully figured out the base rule about selecting your warlord.  (And perhaps stop quoting posts that are over eight months old ?)

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

I did manage to get one of the Mechanicum Battle Groups. As I always loved the Castellax, but thought they are super expensive in resin, now I can finally build a small Mech force for a more reasonable price.

My only question would be: how should I consider running the Castellax nowadays? How many in a unit, and what loadout would be good for them? Is them running with the mauler bolters a viable option? 

[Nagashsnee]

 

I did manage to get one of the Mechanicum Battle Groups. As I always loved the Castellax, but thought they are super expensive in resin, now I can finally build a small Mech force for a more reasonable price.

My only question would be: how should I consider running the Castellax nowadays? How many in a unit, and what loadout would be good for them? Is them running with the mauler bolters a viable option? 

Ok so my experience with fielding them is units of 3, with 2 flamers each. But only when running cybernetica on warlord to make them troops.  I just run them onto the enemies obj holders who they can usually bully. 6 Flamers can also put out some major pain on again non elite units. 

 

Anything semi elite you shoot with other units and avoid with your castellax, this isn't first ed, any semi decent marine unit can and will bully you with higher ws and a giant choice of weapons that can hurt you,  But they are great when punching down and holding ground.  Flamers are not a must as overwatch is hard to do, but i just enjoy the templates too much. 

 

Generally my advice keep them cheap and cheerful.

[TheDreadfulSagittary]

 

Ok so my experience with fielding them is units of 3, with 2 flamers each. But only when running cybernetica on warlord to make them troops.  I just run them onto the enemies obj holders who they can usually bully. 6 Flamers can also put out some major pain on again non elite units. 

 

Anything semi elite you shoot with other units and avoid with your castellax, this isn't first ed, any semi decent marine unit can and will bully you with higher ws and a giant choice of weapons that can hurt you,  But they are great when punching down and holding ground.  Flamers are not a must as overwatch is hard to do, but i just enjoy the templates too much. 

 

Generally my advice keep them cheap and cheerful.

 

Thank you for your advice. Than two units of 3 (one with mauler bolters and one maybe with some special equipment) should be fine :)

Right now I'm leaning towards a Thallax and Castellax heavy list. 2 units of six Thallax and one unit of 3. I really like those robots.

What is the opinion on the Triaros, and to run them with Thallax? 

Edited October 6 by TheDreadfulSagittary

[Nagashsnee]

On 10/6/2024 at 10:15 AM, TheDreadfulSagittary said:

 

Thank you for your advice. Than two units of 3 (one with mauler bolters and one maybe with some special equipment) should be fine :)

Right now I'm leaning towards a Thallax and Castellax heavy list. 2 units of six Thallax and one unit of 3. I really like those robots.

What is the opinion on the Triaros, and to run them with Thallax? 

 

Honestly, thallax do not need a transport, they have double move and deep strike. They are solid T with a okish save. But small units of 3-4 should be easy to keep out of los of anything that can truly hurt them. 

 

List wise without knowing your local meta or how waac they are its hard to say. I would really recommend some domitars (tho they are not if they ever will be in plastic yet). They are like castellax but can actually fight some of the less crazy elite marines.  

 

On general advice, tech thralls, some of you laughed when you read this but i will live and die by my tech thralls. They are CHEAP and they are scoring. At its core HH is a game about getting objs, while stopping your enemy from getting any. Having 1-3 units of cheap, scoring troops WILL ALWAYS be useful. Hide 15 in a building on your starting obj. March 2x 20 up field and just shrug as they die/run away. Watch your enemies ignore them only to realize on turn 5 that your 3 tech thralls units are all on objs and while they wont the big fight in the middle are about to lose this game.  The mind games that deploying 2-3 x 20 model units can have on some players is also a plus. As some people are so married to the idea of Mech being a low model hyper elite/monster army it throws them completely off balance. Sometimes you just want to pressure the game by putting scoring units on/near objs, and you dont want to be feeding your thallax or castellax into bad positions. I have thrown more tech thralls into early graves for the glory of the Imperator Omnissiah then i care to admit to, and can honestly say i regret none of it. 

[Dagoth Ur]

I've been recently looking at running Anacharis Scoria in my list, just because I have the big spider bastard. What sorta unit do people put him in? His whole cybernetica vibe obviously makes Domitar and Arlatax very appealing - but considering that Cybernetica within 6 inches of him can react, I do wonder if something more shooty, like a brick of darklight castellax wouldn't work either.