Your marine hot take/controversial opinion?

[UnkyHamHam]

5 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

HH becoming a main line, it really is the best bet for FB.

Bro, it's two different time periods with vastly different aesthetics.  Vehicles and units that are in one and not the other.  

Saying 30k is a thing so all of 40k doesn't need to be, is like saying we have loyalists, so why bother with traitors. It makes no sense. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If you liked 7th edition you’d prolly like HH and you’ll never see any Primaris there.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, UnkyHamHam said:

Hard disagree. Without some sort of bandaid or tie over, like making Primaris versions of FB units in their entirety or legitimizing Legends, scrapping them will literally mean you can't play any games set in the 10,000 years between The Siege of Terra and The Indomitus Crusade. 

Surely, you can see that if they invalidate that vast time period and all the potential there, including the titular year of M41 (40,000 you know, the year the damn game is named after) that this would be "scrapping" much of the fluff. 

And I'm sick of people say just play heresy if you want FB marines. Those periods are vastly different in style and how the universe works. 

Lore and gameplay are two separate thing…I don’t know why you’re conflating the two.

all lore will still be valid and canon

[UnkyHamHam]

1 minute ago, Black Blow Fly said:

If you liked 7th edition you’d prolly like HH and you’ll never see any Primaris there.

It's not about not liking Primaris for me. I DO like them. Most of the models are fan-freaking-tastic actually. The lore is also great in theory. It's the execution that was garbage, and more or less still is. 

But that isn't the point here. Just because primaris exist now, does not mean first born should just cease to.   My aim is to take up the dying cause of seeing that they don't just get dropped. 

I enjoyed 7th (mostly), I enjoy 30k and HH/AoD, and I really enjoy Primaris and 9th as well. 

I just don't like that people get blinders on and start taking absolutist positions that they see constantly regurgitated by influencers and others in their echo chambers. I don't want GW thinking those opinions are everyone's. 

5 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Lore and gameplay are two separate thing…I don’t know why you’re conflating the two.

all lore will still be valid and canon

Being able to play that lore out in the most current game system is what I was referring to, and you know it. Please don't be obtuse, sir/madam. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Just now, UnkyHamHam said:

It's not about not liking Primaris for me. I DO like them. Most of the models are fan-freaking-tastic actually. The lore is also great in theory. It's the execution that was garbage, and more or less still is. 

But that isn't the point here. Just because primaris exist now, does not mean first born should just cease to.   My aim is to take up the dying cause of seeing that they don't just get dropped. 

I enjoyed 7th (mostly), I enjoy 30k and HH/AoD, and I really enjoy Primaris and 9th as well. 

I just don't like that people get blinders on and start taking absolutist positions that they see constantly regurgitated by influencers and others in their echo chambers. I don't want GW thinking those opinions are everyone's. 

I’d be pretty pleased if FB stayed around but I don’t see it happening long term, so I have a hard time justifying buying new FB kits, which hurts the sales, especially since I doubt I’m the only one who feels that way.

if GW would come out and say one way or the other and end the speculation, then I think that would be very helpful for all involved.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m not against FB like some are against Primaris and still use units like terminators and VV. It’s just the way things are going I wonder how much longer they’ll be around. It’ll be interesting how the next codex plays out.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I’m not against FB like some are against Primaris and still use units like terminators and VV. It’s just the way things are going I wonder how much longer they’ll be around. It’ll be interesting how the next codex plays out.

My gf bought me a stormraven in 2021 and I’ve only used it once so far, so I mean I hope FB stick around for a good bit longer, so I can get more gaming out of it. Coolest standard kit flyer in the line imho

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I hope Primaris get a flyer.

[UnkyHamHam]

14 minutes ago, Black Blow Fly said:

I hope Primaris get a flyer.

I hope they at least get a drop pod 

[Felix Antipodes]

9 hours ago, phandaal said:

That might actually be a controversial opinion!

A lot of people seem to think "Horus Heresy exists" is equivalent to "Firstborn are not going away."

This.  Most, if not all, Firstborn models are in MK VII armour.  HH era Astartes wore MKs II thru VI.

[DesuVult]

I don't think firstborn are leaving 40k or getting sent to Legends.  People have been saying firstborn kits are going away for about 6 years now and every time a firstborn model comes out it doesn't count and they are still supposed to go away.  GW seems to quite like expanding the marine range and marine options, not reduce it.

[Blindhamster]

3 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

This.  Most, if not all, Firstborn models are in MK VII armour.  HH era Astartes wore MKs II thru VI.

MkVII was in use by the loyalists at the siege of terra. Incidentally the official setting for HH is the siege of terra (as indicated by imperial fists fighting sons of Horus)

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, DesuVult said:

I don't think firstborn are leaving 40k or getting sent to Legends.  People have been saying firstborn kits are going away for about 6 years now and every time a firstborn model comes out it doesn't count and they are still supposed to go away.  GW seems to quite like expanding the marine range and marine options, not reduce it.

Maybe I missed something but what new FB models have been released for 40k since 9th?

[UnkyHamHam]

58 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Maybe I missed something but what new FB models have been released for 40k since 9th?

Honestly, without looking up, all I can remember is Heroes blind draws, anything Heresy related, a single promotional Terminator Librarian, and a Black Templar that GW says could be either/or FB or Primaris.

So if you look at that list, it's easy to dismiss each of those things as "technically doesn't count". So I get it. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

16 hours ago, UnkyHamHam said:

Bro, it's two different time periods with vastly different aesthetics.  Vehicles and units that are in one and not the other.  

Saying 30k is a thing so all of 40k doesn't need to be, is like saying we have loyalists, so why bother with traitors. It makes no sense. 

Tbf the HH aesthetic seems to just be RT 2nd and 3rd edition for the vehicles…and most of the marines.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

22 minutes ago, UnkyHamHam said:

Honestly, without looking up, all I can remember is Heroes blind draws, anything Heresy related, a single promotional Terminator Librarian, and a Black Templar that GW says could be either/or FB or Primaris.

So if you look at that list, it's easy to dismiss each of those things as "technically doesn't count". So I get it. 

I’d say they don’t count, just because all but one are special release/limited run type things.

have they released a regular run FB kit at all since primaris were introduced? That’s how I judge it.

just like how 2 new Catachan limited release characters doesn’t mean Catachan is the new face of the guard.

[UnkyHamHam]

4 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

 

 Edit:  replied to wrong post. 

I agree with what you're saying. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by UnkyHamHam

[WrathOfTheLion]

Do Grey Knights count in that? They did release Castellan Crowe.

One of the promotional Chaplains was released as a line item as well as part of the standard range.

As for whether they'll do more, imo the will eventually, just not now. With how successful the HH/MK VI launch was, they'd be silly not to wait five or so more years for the MK VII stuff to feel really nostalgic and capitalize on selling a new SM army again. I just don't think it'll happen soon, they'd need to space stuff like that out.

Edited August 20, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[phandaal]

If GW does not end up releasing upscaled 40k non-Primaris, 3D printers will do it for them.

Not sure if that is a controversial opinion or hot take though.

[Blindhamster]

probably just a given tbh.

[Lemondish]

My crazy ill conceived terrible hot take was that it was a mistake to introduce 2 wound basic Marines. I feel like that kicked off the arms race, where AP and damage had to go up for others to compete against that durability, which in turn required more durability tools, etc.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

39 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

My crazy ill conceived terrible hot take was that it was a mistake to introduce 2 wound basic Marines. I feel like that kicked off the arms race, where AP and damage had to go up for others to compete against that durability, which in turn required more durability tools, etc.

AP didn’t have to go up just because wounds did.

I mean it didn’t make much sense that one lasgun shot could kill a guardsman and a 7foot tall genetically enhanced super soldier. It makes sense that it should take at least 2 lasgun shots to kill a marine.

I don’t mind some weapons getting a bit more lethal to thus differentiate them from other weapons as MEQ killers, and I see where you’re coming from, but boosting a few weapons to 2D didn’t really necessitate weapons like the rail gun getting the buff that it did, or the basic bolt rifle didn’t need to get AP-1, etc.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

If GW does not end up releasing upscaled 40k non-Primaris, 3D printers will do it for them.

Not sure if that is a controversial opinion or hot take though.

That then puts a lot of people into a potentially weird place. I know any GW model is technically a legal model, but would you really feel like your opponent is really coming to play with good faith if they’re using the original gaz khull model rather than the current model?

[Felix Antipodes]

15 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

MkVII was in use by the loyalists at the siege of terra. Incidentally the official setting for HH is the siege of terra (as indicated by imperial fists fighting sons of Horus)

I’m well aware that MK VII was introduced in the SoT, but if I want to play any other battle in the HH then I am limited to the other marks.  The HH went for several years, the siege a couple of months regardless of where they arbitrarily decided to set HH 2.0.

[phandaal]

9 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

That then puts a lot of people into a potentially weird place. I know any GW model is technically a legal model, but would you really feel like your opponent is really coming to play with good faith if they’re using the original gaz khull model rather than the current model?

Gonna need some more explanation on this one. How is this related to printing an upscaled Mk 7 model?