Your marine hot take/controversial opinion?

[Evil Eye]

I have a few, speaking as a non-SM player who nonetheless likes Astartes. In no particular order:

>Mk. V(? The "Heresy" mark) is extremely underutilized and IMO most deserving of a new plastic kit. Obviously all the historic marks deserve plastic kits for HH, but Mk. V is really, REALLY cool looking and severely underrated.

>The old Castraferrum Dreadnoughts, both Mk. IV and Mk. V, are much cooler than Contemptors. And I like Contemptors!

>I really wish the Land Raider would get a new "modern day" (as in post-Heresy) kit. The current one looks nice but is a pain to build thanks to mold degradation and the interior is poorly thought out enough to make me irrationally mad.

>On the above note, a theoretical "new" Land Raider (not a Primaris equivalent, an actual Land Raider) should move the heavy bolter turret up a bit to not only give a greater arc of fire but also to make the assault ramp actually usable.

>The Rhino's size is a classic debate, but I think it could be made a lot less contentious if the actual carrying capacity was lowered to about 6 at maximum. Given how powerful Marines are supposed to be, a squad of 6 in a medium transport seems like sufficient numbers, and a threat needing a squad of 10 would probably benefit from the extra armour and weapons of a Land Raider anyway. Ten Battle Sisters or Guardsmen (if they still used Rhinos) makes sense, but even if you go by tabletop scale, a Marine would take up more space than a Sister by sheer bulk.

>Space Marine vehicles look best with their heraldry worked into a camo scheme or other distinct paintjob rather than literally just being painted like the power armour. This also applies to Chaos vehicles too. As an example, look at Biel-Tan vehicles and how different they are from the Craftworld infantry colours.

>Beakies are cool but honestly not my favourite helmet design. In fact my favourite might be good ol' Aquila (mk 7) helmets, specifically when drawn/sculpted to be struggling to contain the wearer's boundless zealous rage and righteous hate.

>Chaplain Dreadnoughts are really cool, and I wish they'd come back (MTO please FW?) but I'd love Techmarine Dreadnoughts to be a thing; seems both interesting from a gameplay perspective (self-repair systems maybe?) and also fluff ("I have truly become one with the holy Machine..."). I would say Apothecary Dreadnoughts but then again I can't think of a worse candidate for a surgeon than someone entombed in a walking iron lung with a hand bigger than your entire body...

>The Redemptor Dreadnought actually looks OK and I wish it had more gun options available than just assault cannon or plasma cannon.

>The Invictor meanwhile is a really cool sci-fi powersuit but has no place in 40K.

>Mk. X armour is a fine design and if it were just a new mark of armour added alongside a general rescale of the Space Marine line I can't really see any reason to dislike it.

>Primaris themselves are actually not the worst idea ever, just handled poorly, but that's something I've waxed lyrical about before...

>The Assault on Black Reach snapfit Dreadnought is a crime against aesthetics and I hate it far more than reasonably justifiable.

I could go on but I probably shouldn't...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

Not just Terminators, but jump troops, vehicles, chapter specific characters and units, and veterans. If Primaris are going to replace FB, they need many more releases to come close. Which I guess flies in the face of the wish to have it all over as soon as possible.

I can understand the desire to see an expected replacement happen sooner rather than later, even if I don't think it's likely to ever happen. If it does, I hope it happens when Primaris can replace what makes Firstborn so damn good in today's meta. 

Primaris already have both veterans and jump infantry.

they’re not a 1:1 comparison but it seems like there’s no intention to create exact replacements for generic marine units. Doesn’t even seem like they’re interested in doing a 1:1 replacement when it comes to chapter specific units.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You think geedub would discontinue terminators without a direct replacement? And no Aggressors aren’t terminators. I can just imagine the outcry.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, Black Blow Fly said:

You think geedub would discontinue terminators without a direct replacement? And no Aggressors aren’t terminators. I can just imagine the outcry.

The primaris roll out shows and death of WHFB that GW isn’t worried about outcry

[Captain Idaho]

As the economic situation around the world gets worse and if GW struggle to make money, upsetting people might not be high on their agenda.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

As the economic situation around the world gets worse and if GW struggle to make money, upsetting people might not be high on their agenda.

If they struggle to make money, sure, but they’re not struggling to make money. They’ve been doing just fine in that regard.

as for the ‘aggressors arent primaris terminators’ angle, give them an invulnerable saves and a deepstrike rule and they will be. Maybe even better.

that can be done next edition with only a  change to the datasheet.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wise words Idaho.

[Orange Knight]

13 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

As the economic situation around the world gets worse and if GW struggle to make money, upsetting people might not be high on their agenda.

I honestly don't see this happening. GW might be impacted slightly, but it won't be significant. People who are most at risk of the problems caused by economic downturns aren't the ones who invest wildly into vanity hobbies like 40k in the 1st place.

During the 2008 global recession, whilst public spending did indeed drop in nations like the UK, things like sales of Ferrari cars were not affected. This is an extreme example but an effective one.

GW would suffer negatively if the models and rules no longer engaged people. Recently a lot of people have grown tired of 9th edition, but GW chose to drop the new Plastic Heresy and that has re-ignited the hobby passion of many (myself included), and with 10th dropping next year we can all expect more hobby engagement and spending.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah there's a billion reasons they might struggle financially or not.

If there are pressures and problems, any business won't upset their customer base if they've got sense.

We shall see.

[Evil Eye]

Given the current recession is making 2008 look like a bit of a blip, I think GW's going to have to be extra careful not to upset their fans. Speaking purely for myself, even aside from my decision not to buy any more rulebooks for the current edition due to the rather shambolic direction of the rules and their release system, I'm going to have to cut back hobby spending due to certain very poor decisions by our puppet masters meaning electricity bills being sent through the roof; GW's going to have to try a bit harder to get money out of me, just because impulse spends are less viable now.

[Orange Knight]

Sure, some people will cut back, as I said.

I think it depends on your hobby spends and other luxury expenses. For me, Warhammer is one of many hobbies I invest in, and my passion waxes and wanes throughout the year. I've just splurged on a 3500 point Horus Heresy army, including a FW Primarch and various conversion bits.

I'll probably limit further investment until 10th edition. The Votann are tempting me, but if the rumours about 10th are true, and it does end up being a round-up reboot, then I think it will be best to review the faction after that point.

I think time is the biggest enemy of this hobby. There are less and less days I can dedicated to building and painting :-(

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Given the current recession is making 2008 look like a bit of a blip, I think GW's going to have to be extra careful not to upset their fans. Speaking purely for myself, even aside from my decision not to buy any more rulebooks for the current edition due to the rather shambolic direction of the rules and their release system, I'm going to have to cut back hobby spending due to certain very poor decisions by our puppet masters meaning electricity bills being sent through the roof; GW's going to have to try a bit harder to get money out of me, just because impulse spends are less viable now.

The current recession is no where near the Great Recession of 2008.

[Helias_Tancred]

With assault squads with jump packs I already have fast moving close combat marines, I don't have much need for vanguard veterans with their hard modeling choices,  high point costs, and they're far more involved to paint! Feh. 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Eilio Tiberius

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:06 PM, Evil Eye said:

I have a few, speaking as a non-SM player who nonetheless likes Astartes. In no particular order:

>Mk. V(? The "Heresy" mark) is extremely underutilized and IMO most deserving of a new plastic kit. Obviously all the historic marks deserve plastic kits for HH, but Mk. V is really, REALLY cool looking and severely underrated.

>The old Castraferrum Dreadnoughts, both Mk. IV and Mk. V, are much cooler than Contemptors. And I like Contemptors!

>I really wish the Land Raider would get a new "modern day" (as in post-Heresy) kit. The current one looks nice but is a pain to build thanks to mold degradation and the interior is poorly thought out enough to make me irrationally mad.

>On the above note, a theoretical "new" Land Raider (not a Primaris equivalent, an actual Land Raider) should move the heavy bolter turret up a bit to not only give a greater arc of fire but also to make the assault ramp actually usable.

>The Rhino's size is a classic debate, but I think it could be made a lot less contentious if the actual carrying capacity was lowered to about 6 at maximum. Given how powerful Marines are supposed to be, a squad of 6 in a medium transport seems like sufficient numbers, and a threat needing a squad of 10 would probably benefit from the extra armour and weapons of a Land Raider anyway. Ten Battle Sisters or Guardsmen (if they still used Rhinos) makes sense, but even if you go by tabletop scale, a Marine would take up more space than a Sister by sheer bulk.

>Space Marine vehicles look best with their heraldry worked into a camo scheme or other distinct paintjob rather than literally just being painted like the power armour. This also applies to Chaos vehicles too. As an example, look at Biel-Tan vehicles and how different they are from the Craftworld infantry colours.

>Beakies are cool but honestly not my favourite helmet design. In fact my favourite might be good ol' Aquila (mk 7) helmets, specifically when drawn/sculpted to be struggling to contain the wearer's boundless zealous rage and righteous hate.

>Chaplain Dreadnoughts are really cool, and I wish they'd come back (MTO please FW?) but I'd love Techmarine Dreadnoughts to be a thing; seems both interesting from a gameplay perspective (self-repair systems maybe?) and also fluff ("I have truly become one with the holy Machine..."). I would say Apothecary Dreadnoughts but then again I can't think of a worse candidate for a surgeon than someone entombed in a walking iron lung with a hand bigger than your entire body...

>The Redemptor Dreadnought actually looks OK and I wish it had more gun options available than just assault cannon or plasma cannon.

>The Invictor meanwhile is a really cool sci-fi powersuit but has no place in 40K.

>Mk. X armour is a fine design and if it were just a new mark of armour added alongside a general rescale of the Space Marine line I can't really see any reason to dislike it.

>Primaris themselves are actually not the worst idea ever, just handled poorly, but that's something I've waxed lyrical about before...

>The Assault on Black Reach snapfit Dreadnought is a crime against aesthetics and I hate it far more than reasonably justifiable.

I could go on but I probably shouldn't...

If you drop rhino capacity to 6 no one would ever take it, when the razorback can carry 5 and have 2 hvy weapons