Intercession Squad Discussion

[Lysimachus]

So, with the new KT that a lot of people might be using to get into the game, I thought it would be good to discuss the options and loadouts available?

Starting with the option of Leaders...

My gut feeling is there is very little point (read: never do this!) in taking the regular Sgt over the Assault variant? The point of taking him is to be your main CC guy and special Melee weapon carrier, so the ability to Shoot twice with a Bolt weapon, which any of your team could do, just can't match up with Fight twice? Unless I'm missing something...?

Your next two choices seem equally obvious? As long as you are planning to mix the troop types, you might as well first take the Assault Grenadier and Grenade Launcher Gunner?

Then you're down to the other three... I guess this depends on match-ups? Simple solution is 2 Intercessors and 1 more Assault Intercessor for a balanced team?

But depending on which 2 of the Chapter Tactic options you go with, you might prefer to focus your warriors one way or the other? Eg. 4 bolters (including Aux GL) plus the AssSgt and Grenadier could be good if you were focusing on the Disciples of Iron category?

 

Does anyone have any thoughts/plans so far? How do you plan to represent your chosen Chapters?

[lansalt]

44 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

My gut feeling is there is very little point (read: never do this!) in taking the regular Sgt over the Assault variant? The point of taking him is to be your main CC guy and special Melee weapon carrier, so the ability to Shoot twice with a Bolt weapon, which any of your team could do, just can't match up with Fight twice? Unless I'm missing something...?

I think the normal sgt. with a power weapon and a BS 2+ bolt rifle with the Lethal 5+ scope and the +1 damage bolts is a good option for more shooty battles along the Aux. Grenadier Gunner, since you can always take the Tilting Shield and/or Martial Zealotry's Aggressive ability to make assault intercessors better with Rending if you need it. Likewise, Rapid giving 1" more to movement seems very useful to me when doing the move->shoot->dash routine to stay out of returning fire.

They've made finally the Auspex Scan cheap and useful enough to be worth it.

I don't think I'll use the Doctrine ploys much, I think using CP for Transhuman at each opportunity will be more useful to keep marines tanking shots while they double fire.

I play mostly against GEQ horde teams, so your milleage may vary.

 

[Lysimachus]

Good idea on the Bolt rifle, nasty! Though it is a hefty chunk of your EP? Like I said, if you double down on regular Intercessors and the Discipline of Iron abilities as well, it might be worth it though?

 

For me I'm thinking Assault Sgt with Power Fist still hitting on 3s is pretty good, not sure whether to stick to Bolt Pistol or go Hand Flamer for if I come up against weaker hordes... I guess it's one of those 'magnets are your friends' situations...?

 

[lansalt]

Yeah, magnets are a must for leaders and other special operatives in KT. I slowly began building a BA primaris team some time ago with the idea of using the rules of different factions with them (intercessors, Deathwatch, CSM legionaries) to allow me more variety, and magnetizing the sergeant was the only sane way to use him across those.

I think the assault intercessor with power fist to one shot GEQs and deal with elites is a very good option, but I'd always have a P1 bolt rifle with at least the Lethal 5+ scope to have another source of AP1 shooting besides the aux. grenade launcher gunner.

[Dumah]

Haven't put too much thought into it as yet, but the Adaptive Tactics ploy looks like a nice tool for countering certain matchups. First thing that springs to mind is using it to switch out a trait to Methodical when facing a horde team, thus allowing your dudes to Overwatch without the BS penalty. Especially useful in a shooty team, I reckon.

[Lysimachus]

Ooh, yeah I hadn't thought of Methodical affecting Overwatch... what other things modify your BS/WS?

That trait is good for balanced teams because both CC and shooty Intercessors gain some benefits. I like the Resilience traits for the same reason, it helps everyone?

Seems like Durable might be better than Unyielding, you'd only need two Critical Hits to go through for the -1 Dam to be be better than +1W (which is probably fairly likely throughout the course of a game?)

Edited August 18, 2022 by Lysimachus

[Dumah]

Another interesting combination of Chapter Tactics I can't take credit for (found it on the Kill Team Subreddit): If you go mostly ranged, give your guys the Dueller and Mobile Tactics to stay alive when charged, fall back then shoot them twice in your activation. Throw in some combat blades to taste and you've got yourself shooty boys that aren't afraid of melee.

[INKS]

In order to get all the options I need 2 Sergeants with magnets. Do all the options, even the shield

3 Assault Intercessor Warriors

3 Regular Intercessor Warriors

1 Grenades

1 Gunner

 

My personal list looks something like

1 Intercessor Sergeant with Auto Bolt Rifle, scope, blessed bolts

1 Grenades

1 Gunner

2 Assault Intercessors

1 Intercessor

 

This gives me a fairly shooty list with some assault boys to back me up. I haven't don't enough reading on docturines or whatever yet, I am sure there is one that fits me. These will be Scythes of the Emperor. Should be able to start work on them soon. Very Excited for it.

 

In KT Into the dark, I could maybe see me running a more close combat list. But we'll see what works and what doesn't

 

 

[Lysimachus]

Just a thought that popped into my head while considering putting together a new Intercession KT:

I was thinking about how to show the scope+blessed bolts on a mini?

I think most agree that Stalker BRs aren't worth it in KT (Heavy being a big nuisance) so could that bit work to instead show the Equipment loadout? (Good scope and different ammo mag?)

[INKS]

There is a scope option instead of drum mag in the intercessors KT. Blessed bolts? I don't know. I might paint the gun gold to show it's special / master crafted or something.

[Disruptor_fe404]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:38 AM, INKS said:

My personal list looks something like

1 Intercessor Sergeant with Auto Bolt Rifle, scope, blessed bolts

1 Grenades

1 Gunner

2 Assault Intercessors

1 Intercessor

 

You've probably read more than I have; but Vengeance-class Scope appears to be limited to the stalker bolt rifle and the bolt rifle? I wouldn't mind tricking out an Intercessor Sergeant with both scope and bolts though...

[INKS]

19 minutes ago, Disruptor_fe404 said:

 

You've probably read more than I have; but Vengeance-class Scope appears to be limited to the stalker bolt rifle and the bolt rifle? I wouldn't mind tricking out an Intercessor Sergeant with both scope and bolts though...

I don't have the rules in front of me, but if that is the case (it might be) then I'll change the auto bolt rifle out for just a bolt rifle. :)

Never ever take the stalker.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Yeah, stalker feels like a bit of a trap. I like the idea of bolts on the Sergeant's auto rifle though (hitting on 2s and re-rolling 1s feels extremely consistent with the extra damage), and then a scope or two on regular Intercessors among the remainder of the squad.

[INKS]

I am not 100% on what equipment to take. sometimes I think you'll want the shield. but blessed bolts and a scope character is auto for me.

[INKS]

I was thinking more about the Sergeants. I don't know that the shooting Sergeant needs more options than a bolt gun and upgrades. (modeling wise)

Can anyone come up with a situation where I am wrong? I don't think the other options are suitable for him at all. Maybe shield? for protection? 

 

The Assault Intercessor Sergeant is the one with options (modeling wise). You'll want plasma pistol plus chainsword.

power weapon plus pistol and or flamer

power fist plus pistol or flamer

Thunder hammer plus pistol or flamer

and shield

 

 

[Lysimachus]

I mean, the shooty Sgt can still take a special melee weapon, so you might as well take one of them? Chainsword, PW, Fist...? Obvs, you aren't planning to use it, but it's free and might be useful if/when you get charged? And you might want to swap between them depending on who you're up against?

Edit: Thunder Hammer too, I always forget that one (but I don't really rate the stats on it as highly as a PW or Fist...)

 

 

Actually, that's a good point though, I should add a standard Bolt Rifle arm to my list of right arm options for my Assault Sgt, then he could be used as a regular Int Sgt if I wanted...

Edited September 16, 2022 by Lysimachus

[INKS]

2 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

I mean, the shooty Sgt can still take a special melee weapon, so you might as well take one of them? Chainsword, PW, Fist...? Obvs, you aren't planning to use it, but it's free and might be useful if/when you get charged? And you might want to swap between them depending on who you're up against?

Edit: Thunder Hammer too, I always forget that one (but I don't really rate the stats on it as highly as a PW or Fist...)

 

 

Actually, that's a good point though, I should add a standard Bolt Rifle arm to my list of right arm options for my Assault Sgt, then he could be used as a regular Int Sgt if I wanted...

A good point. I guess you just need one model with all those options and you can decided if he's assault or not. I was going to make two models but I don't need two. Just one with all the options.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I'm actually a little sad that the thunder hammer is a niche choice compared to the power weapon and power fist. Though to be honest I doubt anyone I might play with would have an issue with me modelling a thunder hammer to count as either of the other two.

[Lysimachus]

I think that's very reasonable if you just want to build a mini in one form and use it to count-as. A hammer equipped mini could easily represent a Power Maul (PW) or a Thunder Hammer (or Fist) 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Lysimachus

[INKS]

Thinking about it again as I build more shoot intercessors. 

For all the options that I think I'll need

1 Aux Grenade launcher

1 Grenadier

2 bolter marines

2 assault marines with std loadout

1 Sergeant. - bolter for shooty options, with scope and blessed bolts.

L 1 hand with handflamer

L 1 hand with plasma pistol

L 1 hand with bolt pistol

R 1 Hand with power weapon

R 1 Hand with Thunder Hammer ?? When do you take this?

R 1 Hand with power fist

R 1 Hand with chainsword

R  1 Forearm for shield

 

I think this should be every option. I could add 1 more marine either std or assault to the list incase I don't want the Aux launcher or grenadier but I don't see me ever NOT taking them.

In the wild. more shooty - 2 Reg Intercessors, 1 Assault. INTO the Dark = 2 Asssault, 1 Reg Intercessor. Switch Sergeants as I need him.

 

[Disruptor_fe404]

Nah, both grenadiers will always hit the table. I'd throw in an Intercessor holding an auspex though, assuming you wanted to cover off all the options.

[INKS]

When would I use the auspex?  Honest question.

[Lysimachus]

Hmm, it's a valid question...

With the nerfs to Grenades, it's less likely that you'll add more of them (other than the ones the Grenadier gets for free, obvs)

Then the other really useful equipment seems to be 3EP each; Scope, Bolts, Shield. Then whack a Combat Knife on someone to use up the last 1EP?

But I suppose if you were really leaning into a shooty team, you might go Scope, Bolts, Auspex instead of Tilt Shield, and take 2 guys with Combat Knives?

Edit: But I think I'd probably be more likely to go Scope on 2 guys, Bolts on 1 and stick with the 1 Combat Knife? So even in a shooty list, the Auspex might miss out?

Edited September 17, 2022 by Lysimachus

[INKS]

Right now I've got it set for 2 scopes, blessed bolts, and 1 combat knife.

I'll add it to someone's belt just in case.

The tilting shield is a problem in that I don't know when to apply it. To which weapon set. to plasma and chainsword? powerfist or weapon and bolt pistol or hand flamer? I guess I could just add it as an option, we'll see. that is a lot of magnet work

[N1SB]

Interesting data points straight from the Warhammer Store just now.  There was a Kill Team game happening in the background and...

On 8/18/2022 at 1:01 AM, Lysimachus said:

Like I said, if you double down on regular Intercessors and the Discipline of Iron abilities as well, it might be worth it though?

...exactly this scenario happened.  I noticed it because the player used Black Templars, but they were all the regular Bolt Rifle Intercessors.  Because I thought he'd have gone for all Assault Intercessors, and the player said he previously tried that, it stuck in my mind.

The key combination was the Discipline of Iron ability that deals Mortal Wounds, Deadly Sharpshooter, against a Death Guard player, plus Secondaries that focused on killing.  His point was to just roll so many shots a lot of those will be Mortal Wounds, obviously countering the survivability of something slow yet tough like Death Guard.  It was an encirclement strategy with the standard starter set terrain, taking the high ground when possible, just filled the air with bolts.

Follow-Up Edit: so I checked what the 2nd Chapter Tactic was, it was the Ignore Cover with Crits one.  The player literally doubled-down, going all in the Disciple of Iron, firing lots of shots to trigger both the Ignore Cover with Mortal Wounds, so lots go through.

What's interesting is for a Black Templars player specifically to commit to this pure shooting strategy.  Apparently he tried different Chapter Tactics and Assault Intercessors before and, based on that experience, decided to go all ranged, so it must have been for a reason.  It certainly worked for the Death Guard, but what about for Imperial Guardsmen?  I think he'd stick with the shooty Mortal Wounds, and just continue filling the air with bolts.

It was so interesting I was thinking of following his template a bit, not sure though.

Edited September 18, 2022 by N1SB