Missing Rules - What do you expect from future supplements?

[SlickSamos]

As per the title, what units are you expecting from future supplements (either via Exemplary Battles or a full blown rule book)?

I've been reading up on them and for the Dark Angels in particular, I would love to field a Ravenwing squad of 6 Bikes, an Attack Bike and a Proteus Speeder (shown below).  Errata-wise I would also appreciate it if they gave the Attack Bike the right number of wounds... 

Spoiler

From Arbitor Ian's Tale of Four Gamers - Horus Heresy series also highlighted the lack of Vet Scouts for Space Wolves (first episode here).

From the recent discussions about the Shadow Crusade, a really cool idea Warth of the Lion presented was a Rite of War which alter the Allies matrix to represent specific campaigns/points in time (again link to follow when I'm back at my PC).  GW has set a precedent for doing this with the Lord of the Rings 'Legendary Legions' rules which have been really successful in bringing book/movie inspired forces on the Table Top (for further reading I'd suggest look at this).

Also from the Shadow Crusade discussion, Captain Idaho highlighted the Censured Squad for Ultramarines which I could definitely see as coming out as via an Exemplary Battles pdf. 

I'm sure there are many more missing units, from books and lore - which is where you come in!

Look forward to hearing all your thoughts and ideas!

Slick Samos

Edited October 4, 2022 by SlickSamos
Added links, pictures & corrected spelling

[jaxom]

36 minutes ago, SlickSamos said:

Rite of War which alter the Allies matrix to represent specific campaigns/points in time

I really like this idea. Dare I hope for Warsmith Dantioch rules to go with a Defense of Sotha narrative force?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Right now, we have loyalist/traitor Taghmata for Mechanicum. Later on, I'm hoping we get rules and models for more specific Dark Mechanicum forces.

Great idea on the Legendary Legions or some modification of that. I wasn't even thinking of that when I made the original comment. Just when I was looking at some World Eaters to go with my Word Bearers for Shadow Crusade, they had a really crappy alliance, which was a bit disappointing.

Edited October 4, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Stitch5000]

3 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

Errata-wise I would also appreciate it if they gave the Attack Bike the right number of wounds... 

Given there has never been a 30k-correct Attack bike model, I wouldn't hold your breath. 

WIth that in mind though, have you ever tried to ride a motorbike off road whilst trying to shoot a machine gun? I'd wager that if either the rider or the gunner is taken out of action, the whole thing will be next to useless. 

[Hfran Morkai]

6 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Given there has never been a 30k-correct Attack bike model, I wouldn't hold your breath. 

 

They supposedly did mention somewhere that a bunch of the "Legacy" units are to get you by until they come into production again.

[Noserenda]

32 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Given there has never been a 30k-correct Attack bike model, I wouldn't hold your breath. 

WIth that in mind though, have you ever tried to ride a motorbike off road whilst trying to shoot a machine gun? I'd wager that if either the rider or the gunner is taken out of action, the whole thing will be next to useless. 

I mean, the standard model needs trivial amounts of crew conversion to work, they arent particularly uncommon, given the extremely low standard of FW vehicle design recently i wouldnt be throwing rocks at one of the designs based on real vehicles :D 

24 minutes ago, Hfran Morkai said:

 

They supposedly did mention somewhere that a bunch of the "Legacy" units are to get you by until they come into production again.

Yeah im hoping they do come back and put some actual work into a few entries like attack bikes that need the attention but probably arent getting models anytime soon.

[SlickSamos]

That'll teach me for putting a throw away comment in my posts - lol...

If you don't mind I'd like to bring us back to what was meant to be the main focus of this topic:

Warsmith Dantioch would be really cool - and with the legacy units and exemplary battles format they could print rules for loads of characters from the books without having to do the model design & manufacture up front. 

The reason I think GW would do this, is that specific characters can really draw players to a faction and getting the rules for them could inspire a new army.  If they release rules coupled with a guide of how players can convert say a Warlord Dantioch character with FW bits and kits it could drive sales.  At least (if I worked at GW) that would be my appeal to my manager as to why I think I should spend my work hours (having fun) designing the characters from the books as opposed to working on X/Y/Z.  It's reasonably likely to assume that there are drafts of a number of character's rules which got some way through design before being deemed not ready publication - so there could be a draft 'data sheet' on someone's desk at HQ as we speak!

W.r.t. Dark Mechanicum - I think they've been really under-represented in the modelling range, but Anacharis Scoria and the Vex Machinator are both amazing!  Really 'John Blanche'-esq.   

I can't speak to the rules though, but I think one of the selling points of the Legions & Regiments (w.r.t. IG) and such are the visual distinctions between them - which currently is lacking for the Mechanicum in general, so it would benefit FW & GW to start building characteristic rules and models for different forge world's and factions.  Again that's what I would say (if I worked at GW) as to why I want to design models from specific forge worlds.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by SlickSamos
Spelling

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

such are the visual distinctions between them

Campaign books would make a lot sense with Forge World specific upgrade packs. Defense of Ryza along with a Ryza plasma upgrade pack, etc.

Now we’re in the late Heresy for default Heresy, I would expect more Dark Mechanicum as they’d have time to drift into proper daemon-tech.

[MegaVolt87]

Give us the Kaban machine as a Lord of War. 

[bushman101]

11 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

 

Warsmith Dantioch would be really cool - and with the legacy units and exemplary battles format they could print rules for loads of characters from the books without having to do the model design & manufacture up front. 

The reason I think GW would do this, is that specific characters can really draw players to a faction and getting the rules for them could inspire a new army.  If they release rules coupled with a guide of how players can convert say a Warlord Dantioch character with FW bits and kits it could drive sales.  

Yes to all of this. People who read the books might be inspired to build an army around their favorite characters. If Dantioch gets a model, I will make a IW army the same day.

 

Also, obligatory mention of Sanguinary Guard. Just saying....

[Gorgoff]

9 hours ago, bushman101 said:

Yes to all of this. People who read the books might be inspired to build an army around their favorite characters. If Dantioch gets a model, I will make a IW army the same day.

Where does Dantioch plays a role? I only read once about him in Unremebered Empire and there he was a minor character. 

[SlickSamos]

RE Dantioch - The Iron Within by Rob Sanders is the short story where Dantioch first appears (part of the Age of Darkness anthology).  I suspect this novella is why people really like Dantioch - certainly true for me!

[TheTrans]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:20 AM, Hfran Morkai said:

 

They supposedly did mention somewhere that a bunch of the "Legacy" units are to get you by until they come into production again.

I'm going to say that was a placatory statment given how terrible 90% of the Legacy units are and the general reaction to them. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by TheTrans
double word

[Hfran Morkai]

5 hours ago, SlickSamos said:

RE Dantioch - The Iron Within by Rob Sanders is the short story where Dantioch first appears (part of the Age of Darkness anthology).  I suspect this novella is why people really like Dantioch - certainly true for me!

Was that the one where they had a subterranean fortress and dropped enemy titans into magma (maybe?)? If so I'll have to re-read as I did enjoy it.

2 hours ago, TheTrans said:

I'm going to say that was a placatory statment given how terrible 90% of the Legacy units are and the general reaction to them. 

 

Possibly but one would hope they bring stuff like the Caestus back as it was so cool, now, not so much. Still cool aesthetically.

 

The Thunderhawk Transporter seems pretty nifty with it's capacity.

[Eternal Despair]

The biggest "missing rules" for me is an update to the Zone Mortalis rules and it's expansions, namely other missions and the interactive rules found in book HH:1 Betrayal and HH:3 Extermination as well as the stratagems. Now granted a decent majority of the rules can be carried without a ton of hassle but some of the stratagem rules and units need an overhaul to be brought in line with the new edition.  

[SlickSamos]

On 10/5/2022 at 5:59 AM, bushman101 said:

Also, obligatory mention of Sanguinary Guard. Just saying....

Absolutely!  The unit is HH era & the models already exist (and I think are the best marine models they've ever made) - just give us the rules!!  I could envision them being a special retinue squad - like the Deathwing Companion squad.  This inspired me to flick through a couple of old codecies to find any units / models which existed during the HH era and Dark Angels should have Corvus Hammers as an equipment upgrade on their Outrider squads.  Also I'd really appreciate it if we could take Jump Packs or Bikes on Veteran squads as, outside of the retinue squad, there are literally no ways of fielding a veteran style biker squad across all of the legions and 'Vanguard Veteran' style assault squads only exist as certain faction's emblematic units (though Destroyers can do a good approximation).  

Tl:dr; 40k units & weapons which have models and existed during the Heresy should have rules for 30k and veteran style units should exist for all unit types (recon, scout, outrider, jet biker, jump pack).

6 hours ago, Hfran Morkai said:

If so I'll have to re-read as I did enjoy it.

I reread it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it!

3 hours ago, Eternal Despair said:

The biggest "missing rules" for me is an update to the Zone Mortalis rules and it's expansions, namely other missions and the interactive rules found in book HH:1 Betrayal and HH:3 Extermination as well as the stratagems.

They released the updated Zone Mortalis rules in White Dwarf 477 - hopefully we'll get a pdf of them eventually?  If you want an overview of the updated rules, I enjoyed the Goonhammer review with battle report (link) & overview with gameplay by Ash at GMG (link).

[Castellan Skarskård]

What do I expect?

Old school Razorbacks! The lovingly derpy design could probably be turned into something pretty cool by forgeworld.

More characters for underrepresented legions, Iron hands, and Salamanders comes to mind.

Forge world has stated that the legacy rules are placeholder rules for future updates so I expect updated (better) rules to coincide eith plastic kits, could be years from now though.

More on the wishlisting front:

Some sort of recon transport. Either the razorback above or some sort of variant rhino, faster, move through cover, shrouded or with some of the reserve shenanigans from the land raider explorator. Maybe even the precursor to the land speeder storm?

Some fortification. I think a bespoke terrain piece could add to the 30k feel of the board. A bit less gothic than current fortification, with banners or space for legion symbols.

Many BL books have mentions of "dropship" without specifying it further. I think a flyng transport smaller than the fire raptor and less silly than the stormraven could be very cool and add a unique HH feel to the legions.

For the underground assault RoW I think It would be appropriate (and silly in the best way) to have leviathan-specific termite drill to siege people from the inside-out :)

[Runefyre]

I just want missing Rites of War to return. The main chunk of my Ultramarines force was themed around Vigilis Operatii, I've since pivoted towards Logos. Night Lords lost 2 really cool and thematic rites, I'm sure there are other legions that lost some but these are the ones that I'm familiar with. 

 

[sarabando]

im planning out a siege of terra BA force and ive just found out that theres no Indomni armour options for characters :( 

[SlickSamos]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:14 AM, sarabando said:

im planning out a siege of terra BA force and ive just found out that theres no Indomni armour options for characters :( 

 

Run the characters as Cataphractii and say that they have an Iron Halo with there Indomitus armour?  Are you using the Space Hulk minis?

 

Also I've just found these: Naufragia which sound epic!

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I expect a more expansive Zone Mortalis ruleset as a standalone supplement. I'd also love campaign books like AT has, with expanded lore and maybe rites/units for the legions involved. This would be a great place to introduce things like the black books had, such as "Raids" "City Fight" "Shadow Wars" etc. This would also be a great place to re-introduce all of the old black book campaign rules, which are awesome. Basically I want more black books, but now they won't have to put multiple full huge legion sections in each one, because they have the Libers for that.

[Noserenda]

A list for Imperial army regulars would be nice once theyve finally released the militia list, complete the baseline human Good, Bad, Ugly trilogy :D 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:42 AM, Castellan Skarskård said:

For the underground assault RoW I think It would be appropriate (and silly in the best way) to have leviathan-specific termite drill to siege people from the inside-out :)

This is the best fan idea I have seen anywhere hahah

I DEPLOY DRILLBOI FROM MY DRILL

[arnesh88]

Shattered Legions rules

[oldhat]

Though not rules per se, I kinda want them to do Heresy-specific terrain sets. This could have missions and rules for them, but also be a nice way to represent this different era and those could easily work in 40k settings - whereas the opposite is rarely true. I gotta scrape aquilas off everything for 30k use.