9th Ed Codex early rules questions

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, sairence said:

I mean...you can think what you like, but this isn't in any way written ambiguously. And it makes sense if your aim is to make each of these special forces units feel unique, instead of instantly openening up the door to rules exploits by spamming something. 

3 Kasrkin squads isn’t really spamming.

 

each of these squads is presumably from the same company, if not the same platoon it makes no sense at all for them to have different traits from each other.

 

personally I think they meant different from any other datasheet.

[jimbo1701]

This might just be me being stupid but I have questions about the entries for shock troops and Krieg entries. 
 

What purpose does the asterisk serve as the first bullet point seems pretty clear regarding what special weapons can be taken. I could understand if it said ‘once’ rather than ‘twice’ and this would fit with gws what comes in the box policy. 
 

Second question relates to Krieg alone. Why is the plasma gun an either or with the vox? You can take two of each of the other special weapons but that’s the only way to take a plasma. It’s not even a kit issue as you can build a vox/plasma/melta for one model and a melta/plasma for another. 

[Lord_Ikka]

Reading through the codex, am I right in assuming that the only special rules Scions get is the Storm Trooper exploding 6s to Hit (and Taurox Primes don't even get that)? They don't get Regimental, so the storm trooper rule (and the couple of strats) and the troops rule for only Militarum Tempestus detachments are it as far as special rules for them. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Reading through the codex, am I right in assuming that the only special rules Scions get is the Storm Trooper exploding 6s to Hit (and Taurox Primes don't even get that)? They don't get Regimental, so the storm trooper rule (and the couple of strats) and the troops rule for only Militarum Tempestus detachments are it as far as special rules for them. 

How’d you get yours already?

[Emperor Ming]

32 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Reading through the codex, am I right in assuming that the only special rules Scions get is the Storm Trooper exploding 6s to Hit (and Taurox Primes don't even get that)? They don't get Regimental, so the storm trooper rule (and the couple of strats) and the troops rule for only Militarum Tempestus detachments are it as far as special rules for them. 

Yep, pure scions have went from their own rules and supplements

 

To a few pages at the back to the guard dex in the unwanted section

[Lord_Ikka]

Got to sell those new Kasrkin I guess.

[sairence]

The asterix is probably there to keep it watertight from the start. Aka, here's the list of special weapons each model can take, and here's the clarification if you can double up on any in the squad or not.

 

Re the Scions...on the one hand, they lost the granularity, yeah. But if you look at the datasheets, profiles, WL-traits etc, you can see that they didn't actually lose a whole lot, all things considered. 6" extra range trait? HS Las are now 24" base. Extra AP? Wl trait + take aim are available. Infinite order range from a transport. Relic for a command squad and always on. Move and shoot heavy weapons? Volleyguns are now RF.

 

A heap of stuff they just get now, instead of having to pick one or the other.

 

The one stinker is not being able to order them after deepstrike.

Edited November 25, 2022 by sairence
Forgot something

[mertbl]

the order after deepstrike thing feels like an oversight

 

[Cap'm Heckus]

My 2 current issues are:  

 

1.  No power levels listed for regimental attaché’s and body guards.

 

2.  No option listed for heavy weapons teams to take voxes despite the picture clearly showing them.

[Emperor Ming]

30 minutes ago, Cap'm Heckus said:

My 2 current issues are:  

 

1.  No power levels listed for regimental attaché’s and body guards.

 

2.  No option listed for heavy weapons teams to take voxes despite the picture clearly showing them.

Attaches cost 2power each, 3 for bodyguards, it says on the first page of advisors

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Cap'm Heckus said:

My 2 current issues are:  

 

1.  No power levels listed for regimental attaché’s and body guards.

 

2.  No option listed for heavy weapons teams to take voxes despite the picture clearly showing them.

Where do you see a picture of an HWT with a vox?

[Cap'm Heckus]

12 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Where do you see a picture of an HWT with a vox?

In the little picture next to the stat entry.

[Emperor Ming]

Yeah, the HWT has to be a mistake they clearly have vox operators on the new models

 

No vox for you thou ordinance battery

[Lord_Ikka]

On 11/25/2022 at 3:08 AM, sairence said:

Re the Scions...on the one hand, they lost the granularity, yeah. But if you look at the datasheets, profiles, WL-traits etc, you can see that they didn't actually lose a whole lot, all things considered. 6" extra range trait? HS Las are now 24" base. Extra AP? Wl trait + take aim are available. Infinite order range from a transport. Relic for a command squad and always on. Move and shoot heavy weapons? Volleyguns are now RF.

 

A heap of stuff they just get now, instead of having to pick one or the other.

 

The one stinker is not being able to order them after deepstrike.

Not saying that the Scions themselves haven't benefited from the boosts to weapons because they are armed the same as Kasrkin and got included in the re-do there, just that giving them exploding 6s to Hit is pretty weak as a special rule when the default special rule for all IG is 6s to Hit auto-Wound. Born Soldiers is much better statistically than Storm Troopers because the weak Strength of hot-shot lasguns makes turning the exploding extra hits into wounds difficult. Some of the other things are nice- Tempestor Primes now have an in-built invuln, relics aren't bad at all, and the Scion-only Warlord traits are at least interesting, if not auto-takes. It just feels like the Scions got left out in the cold because the Kasrkin came along and their rules, or lack thereof, suffer for it.

 

I would also note that despite being elite and highly trained soldiers, Tepestus Scions are unable to do what their lesser trained brethren are- they cannot hold a vox/master-vox and their main weapon at the same time. Only a hot-shot laspistol and vox/master-vox for them, despite every other infantry squad not having a member lose a lasgun or hot-shot lasgun for Kasrkin.

[sairence]

The silly thing about the Vox-guy is that this was FAQ'd for the old Codex. So we've gone backwards again on that. 

[Cap'm Heckus]

8 hours ago, sairence said:

The silly thing about the Vox-guy is that this was FAQ'd for the old Codex. So we've gone backwards again on that. 

Not to mention that the kit comes with a holstered HSLasgun you can attach to the guy’s back pack.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Not saying that the Scions themselves haven't benefited from the boosts to weapons because they are armed the same as Kasrkin and got included in the re-do there, just that giving them exploding 6s to Hit is pretty weak as a special rule when the default special rule for all IG is 6s to Hit auto-Wound. Born Soldiers is much better statistically than Storm Troopers because the weak Strength of hot-shot lasguns makes turning the exploding extra hits into wounds difficult. Some of the other things are nice- Tempestor Primes now have an in-built invuln, relics aren't bad at all, and the Scion-only Warlord traits are at least interesting, if not auto-takes. It just feels like the Scions got left out in the cold because the Kasrkin came along and their rules, or lack thereof, suffer for it.

 

I would also note that despite being elite and highly trained soldiers, Tepestus Scions are unable to do what their lesser trained brethren are- they cannot hold a vox/master-vox and their main weapon at the same time. Only a hot-shot laspistol and vox/master-vox for them, despite every other infantry squad not having a member lose a lasgun or hot-shot lasgun for Kasrkin.

They’re more highly trained that’s why they get a pistol.

pistols require a lot more training to become proficient with.

[Shamansky]

So, Commissar's order 'Forward for the Emperor' sais the unit counts as Remained Staitionary even after it advanced. 'Volley Fire' stratgem let's an Infatry Squad that Remained Stationary shoot again. Add 'Ingrained presision' to make autowound on 5+. Am i looking at neat combo for 'Born soldiers" here, that includes 2-3 Infantruy squads and one Commisar running forward into rapid fire range? Or it doesn't work the way i'm thinking?

Edited November 29, 2022 by Shamansky

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Shamansky said:

So, Commissar's order 'Forward for the Emperor' sais the unit counts as Remained Staitionary even after it advanced. 'Volley Fire' stratgem let's an Infatry Squad that Remained Stationary shoot again. Add 'Ingrained presision' to make autowound on 5+. Am i looking at neat combo for 'Born soldiers" here, that includes 2-3 Infantruy squads and one Commisar running forward into rapid fire range? Or it doesn't work the way i'm thinking?

Sounds legit to me

[Santaclauswitz]

1 hour ago, Shamansky said:

So, Commissar's order 'Forward for the Emperor' sais the unit counts as Remained Staitionary even after it advanced. 'Volley Fire' stratgem let's an Infatry Squad that Remained Stationary shoot again. Add 'Ingrained presision' to make autowound on 5+. Am i looking at neat combo for 'Born soldiers" here, that includes 2-3 Infantruy squads and one Commisar running forward into rapid fire range? Or it doesn't work the way i'm thinking?

Yeah pretty much.  Though you'll struggle to pull it off turn 1. It's even better with cadian shock troops rule of gain an extra wound on a 6. It's good but I'll probably save ingrained precision for kasrkin because it stacks well with overcharged Lascells. Hitting on a 5+ causing a mortal wound as well as a save is very tasty. A unit can only receive 6 mortal wounds but split fire means you can put a lot of mortal wounds on a couple of units. Id go with frfsrf ordered by creed for the +1 strength. Also I'd give solars bonus if I could. The barbicant's key relic would also be an excellent delivery system. Plus brutal strength as their extra regiment trait.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, Santaclauswitz said:

Yeah pretty much.  Though you'll struggle to pull it off turn 1. It's even better with cadian shock troops rule of gain an extra wound on a 6. It's good but I'll probably save ingrained precision for kasrkin because it stacks well with overcharged Lascells. Hitting on a 5+ causing a mortal wound as well as a save is very tasty. A unit can only receive 6 mortal wounds but split fire means you can put a lot of mortal wounds on a couple of units. Id go with frfsrf ordered by creed for the +1 strength. Also I'd give solars bonus if I could. The barbicant's key relic would also be an excellent delivery system. Plus brutal strength as their extra regiment trait.

Extra hit not wound.

[Shamansky]

6 hours ago, Santaclauswitz said:

Yeah pretty much.  Though you'll struggle to pull it off turn 1. It's even better with cadian shock troops rule of gain an extra wound on a 6. It's good but I'll probably save ingrained precision for kasrkin because it stacks well with overcharged Lascells. Hitting on a 5+ causing a mortal wound as well as a save is very tasty. A unit can only receive 6 mortal wounds but split fire means you can put a lot of mortal wounds on a couple of units. Id go with frfsrf ordered by creed for the +1 strength. Also I'd give solars bonus if I could. The barbicant's key relic would also be an excellent delivery system. Plus brutal strength as their extra regiment trait.

I somehow got caught with the 'shoot again' part. And cadian shock troops are not infantry squad... Also i'm not sure if they'll let me use my cadians as 'primaris'-cadians here. And i'm not going to buy those new shiny toys havimg a full scale battle ready brigade of infantry. 

Edit: The reason to it was to go fishing for 6's with as many cheap shots as possible, with HB/Mortar/ML+GL setup

Edited November 30, 2022 by Shamansky
connection failure

[sairence]

Don't need +1 S when fishing for 6s. Go with Take Aim. More hits is usually better than stronger hits. :)

 

But I agree, you want this on Kasrkin. That unit is going to be so bonkers when we start being able to get them on their own...

[Shamansky]

Well Kasrkin are hands down the best infantry in this variant of the codex. And most likely will become a fire magnet very soon. While Infantry squads are many and expendable.

[Santaclauswitz]

13 hours ago, Shamansky said:

I somehow got caught with the 'shoot again' part. And cadian shock troops are not infantry squad... Also i'm not sure if they'll let me use my cadians as 'primaris'-cadians here. And i'm not going to buy those new shiny toys havimg a full scale battle ready brigade of infantry. 

Edit: The reason to it was to go fishing for 6's with as many cheap shots as possible, with HB/Mortar/ML+GL setup

All 4 troops options have the keyword "infantry squad". If gw intended it to be a strat for just the named infantry squad then they'll need to FAQ it. 

 

I think you'd have to be playing against a gigantic arse if they're complaining that old cadians can't be used as new cadians. I was planning on using my steel legion guys as shock troops because I rarely gave them a heavy weapon and used them as shock troops. I just too figure how to kit bash the cool autogun onto some of them!