Desired changes for 10th Ed

[Special Officer Doofy]

8 hours ago, KingYertle said:

I don't want to get too excited given how quickly 9th edition went off the rails, but so far I like what I'm hearing.  While Stratagems were a good idea, but they became too important to the outcome of the game IMO.  

 

Few Thoughts:

 

Feel No Pain confirmed as a Universal Special Rule.  Could that mean our FNP roll returns?  After all FNP was Created for Plague Marines if I'm not mistaken.  The loss of the FNP ROLL really ruined the Fun of playing Death Guard for me personally.  

 

Unit Datasheets Contain all Weapon Stats + Unit Rules.  The Plague Marine Datasheet is going to be ABSURDLY LONG just from wargear.  I hope that doesn't mean that all our various weapons become a generic "Melee Plague Weapon".   But then again, maybe simplifying all our weapon options is a good thing.

 

Our model selection is a hot mess.  Hopefully we are up for a 2nd wave this edition.  But if not, I hope we receive a good mechanic for summoning Nurgle deamons as teased by WarCom and that the deamons actually fill a missing niche in our codex.

 

Tabletop Tactics hinted that Tempest will continue in 9th.  IMO Tempest and Crusade were the best ways to play in 9th.   I liked the idea of Tournament Seasons but codex power creep really spoiled matched play.  

 

 

 

 

I hope we lose the -1D for the FNP as well!

 

Regarding plague marines, how would you feel about the 2 handed plague marine weapons becoming a set weapon and the one handed weapons (minus the power fist that should be a plague power fist) become something like accursed weapons?

 

Unit wise I don't want to be greedy. We really lucked out compared to thousand sons and world eaters. I would like for GW to make a new helbrute, rhino, and maybe stuff like defiler, land Raider and predator with stuff in the box for each chaos God similar to new Daemon Prince. But that's only half of it, they need to have good rules too and actually get DR in a death guard army. Those units I named minus the Daemon Prince are the worst units in the DG codex, not to mention the oldest and worst looking models too. Those are something DG, WE, TS and vanilla chaos marines would all benefit from!

Edited April 1, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[WrathOfTheLion]

I really like what I'm seeing so far. I'm especially interested in what they do for the detachments for Death Guard. Depending on how it goes, I think they could really expand the kind of lists you can be doing well with.

[Cleon]

I have no idea where rules are going, but I'd love Death guard themed Possessed models.

[Special Officer Doofy]

2 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I really like what I'm seeing so far. I'm especially interested in what they do for the detachments for Death Guard. Depending on how it goes, I think they could really expand the kind of lists you can be doing well with.

 

I'm guessing we won't have the options like space marines (because they have the most options and sub factions to represent) but I could see an infantry heavy one (PM's, poxwalkers, termies and such), a Daemon Engine heavy one (cause our Daemon engines are cool) and maybe one that benefits flame weapons? (we can take flame weapons on PM's, both termies, bloat drones and PBC's, blightspawn and LoV)

 

I'd be down for something like that. Would allow for 3 totally different lists to build around and covers most of our units. But seeing as we are already a subfaction, I doubt we will get much choice.

[WrathOfTheLion]

World Eaters have two right now, even two or three I think could do a lot.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Looking at the loyalist terminator datasheet I see they are getting T5 and have 4++. So much for ours being special haha. Hopefully ours get some love (maybe 5+++ back?)

[Marshal Mittens]

Deathguard need staying power to return. Hopefully a reduction in lethality will be good for us, but also a boost in durability. 5+++ returning would be a good start, for sure. Army is generally overcosted though. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Marshal Mittens

[Special Officer Doofy]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Mittens said:

Deathguard need staying power to return. Hopefully a reduction in lethality will be good for us, but also a boost in durability. 5+++ returning would be a good start, for sure. Army is generally overcosted though. 

 

For sure. I wonder what toughness Mortarion and our daemon engines will go to. But yes in general we are over costed (because of the lethality of all the other codexes).

 

Now that rhino's might not suck and 2 Marines can shoot out (and we can take 2 blight launchers per squad), I hope they get DR and it wouldn't kill GW to make a new chaos rhino. I would buy 1-2.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I have one rhino for my Death Guard right now. If they did a new Chaos Rhino, I'd definitely add more all around to all the Chaos armies I have.

[Special Officer Doofy]

5 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I have one rhino for my Death Guard right now. If they did a new Chaos Rhino, I'd definitely add more all around to all the Chaos armies I have.

 

Wether you like it or hate it, primaris are the future for loyalist and it only seems to punish chaos Marines because they are tied to FB kits and technology.

 

Making a new (chaos specific) rhino and helbrute with just a few God dedicated pieces for flare would help out vanilla chaos Marines and the cult Marines. Seems like low hanging fruit if you ask me. 

[Cleon]

At this point where they have the HH versions of the Rhino/Predator etc in CAD ready to work with, making chaos versions based on them for 40k wouldn't be difficult, it's just a question of cost/production slots. Personally I don't think a generic Chaos Rhino that serves Thousand Sons and Death Guard is much better then the basic HH one as their look is so different, but I struggle to see GW doing a bespoke Plague Rhino.

[WrathOfTheLion]

5 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Wether you like it or hate it, primaris are the future for loyalist and it only seems to punish chaos Marines because they are tied to FB kits and technology.

 

Making a new (chaos specific) rhino and helbrute with just a few God dedicated pieces for flare would help out vanilla chaos Marines and the cult Marines. Seems like low hanging fruit if you ask me. 

Sisters of Battle still use the Rhino as well, so it can't be going anywhere. It looks like they're going to expand the transports to have either no or lessened restrictions for loyalists, which opens up generally a new Rhino/LR kit.

 

Now I'd still want a specific Chaos Rhino if they'll do it.

 

For TS especially, the Chaos one is a bit weird. I'd just use the 30k one for TS right now.

Edited April 15, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Special Officer Doofy]

11 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Sisters of Battle still use the Rhino as well, so it can't be going anywhere. It looks like they're going to expand the transports to have either no or lessened restrictions for loyalists, which opens up generally a new Rhino/LR kit.

 

Now I'd still want a specific Chaos Rhino if they'll do it.

 

For TS especially, the Chaos one is a bit weird. I'd just use the 30k one for TS right now.

 

I'm waiting for the rules. If DG rhino's don't get DR I don't think I will invest in them.

[WrathOfTheLion]

26 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

I'm waiting for the rules. If DG rhino's don't get DR I don't think I will invest in them.

They're still more resilient overall now. Yeah a tank may pop them, but they'd have to dedicate real anti vehicle firepower to take it down.

 

I think they'll be solid for getting plage marines up the board. Either way, I pick them up because it's cool.

 

Now that I'm thinking about changes though, I want them to clean up plague marine loadouts. There's too many options right now, and too easily makes a squad weird if one becomes good, or options become free, etc. They need to clean the weapons down to a couple melee options vs the crazy amount there is now. Plague weapon, greater plague weapon (two handed ones), balesword, power fist, etc.

Edited April 16, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Special Officer Doofy]

6 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

They're still more resilient overall now. Yeah a tank may pop them, but they'd have to dedicate real anti vehicle firepower to take it down.

 

I think they'll be solid for getting plage marines up the board. Either way, I pick them up because it's cool.

 

Now that I'm thinking about changes though, I want them to clean up plague marine loadouts. There's too many options right now, and too easily makes a squad weird if one becomes good, or options become free, etc. They need to clean the weapons down to a couple melee options vs the crazy amount there is now. Plague weapon, greater plague weapon (two handed ones), balesword, power fist, etc.

 

True, but I have a feeling vehicles are going to be overtuned and everyone is going to shove their list with a lot of anti tank weapons to compinsate, it won't make tooooo much of a difference (my opinion of course). My issue with rhino's now is they yell "just shoot me with all your 2D+ guns because I'm the only unit without DR", I have had zero success with them in 9th.

 

They have to do something about the plague marine weapon load out. 17 weapons is waaaaay too much. I want them to consolidate them like you mentioned, 1 hand and 2 hand plague weapons (with maybe a plague power fist or sword on the champion). But I don't want that to be a nerf, just a streamline. I want the power fist to be a plague weapon like on the LoV. It's not game breaking haha.

 

By the way thanks for responding. The DG forum has been dead for awhile, just trying to banter to kill time till 10th. I like looking at all the new rules being drip fed and seeing how it applies to DG but the news and rumors hardly seems like the place to talk about the rules from anything but a loyalist space marines lense.

[WrathOfTheLion]

5 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

True, but I have a feeling vehicles are going to be overtuned and everyone is going to shove their list with a lot of anti tank weapons to compinsate, it won't make tooooo much of a difference (my opinion of course). My issue with rhino's now is they yell "just shoot me with all your 2D+ guns because I'm the only unit without DR", I have had zero success with them in 9th.

 

They have to do something about the plague marine weapon load out. 17 weapons is waaaaay too much. I want them to consolidate them like you mentioned, 1 hand and 2 hand plague weapons (with maybe a plague power fist or sword on the champion). But I don't want that to be a nerf, just a streamline. I want the power fist to be a plague weapon like on the LoV. It's not game breaking haha.

 

By the way thanks for responding. The DG forum has been dead for awhile, just trying to banter to kill time till 10th. I like looking at all the new rules being drip fed and seeing how it applies to DG but the news and rumors hardly seems like the place to talk about the rules from anything but a loyalist space marines lense.

No problem. Death Guard were one of the factions I played the most in 9th Edition, so I'd love to see some improvements. If we want to talk about other factions, we've got to take it elsewhere to our own subforums, as there's always a level of derailing going on in n&r right now on rules.

 

I need to start a painting thread here, I've got a lot of stuff I need to see to the end and get done.

 

As for the plague weapon, I've been giving that some thought. There could be a USR that gives you re-roll ones to wound, or they may just move that as an ability on the datasheet or as an army rule. Either way, I think the amount of options that are seemingly meaningful on the current datasheet is a huge problem for new players getting into Death Guard, or even seasoned players having reasonably built squads. A bunch of them were worthless when assigned any points cost, but were great in aggregate with zero points cost. Just that alone shows those options should be merged and then cleaned up to a reasonable profile, as they weren't worth paying points for.

Edited April 16, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[WrathOfTheLion]

Another topic I thought about, is that there's rumors that Land Raiders will have some rules for assault ramps again, tied to the now true rumor that Primaris could ride in them. This could be huge for a slower faction like Death Guard. Get that LR to bring you up the board and charge Blightlords or whatever right out of it.

[Special Officer Doofy]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Another topic I thought about, is that there's rumors that Land Raiders will have some rules for assault ramps again, tied to the now true rumor that Primaris could ride in them. This could be huge for a slower faction like Death Guard. Get that LR to bring you up the board and charge Blightlords or whatever right out of it.

 

Right! That's another kit they could redo, I'm sure it would sell for a good amount. I just hope we have a way to give it DR. Just call the datasheet "death guard land raider" for more points. Or maybe they turn DR from a unit ability to more of a faction ability. I'm wondering what the transport capacities will be on them.

[WrathOfTheLion]

11 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Right! That's another kit they could redo, I'm sure it would sell for a good amount. I just hope we have a way to give it DR. Just call the datasheet "death guard land raider" for more points. Or maybe they turn DR from a unit ability to more of a faction ability. I'm wondering what the transport capacities will be on them.

I think they'll give whatever faction trait to them, just like they did for Chaos Space Marines and World Eaters. In my opinion, the lack of it is vestigial from early 9th when the Death Guard and Thousand Sons codexes came out, whereas the Chaos Space Marine and World Eaters books are some of the 'proto' 10E Codexes, World Eaters being the most so.

 

As far as a new kit, I'd love it, but we'll have to see what they do. The molds for it and the rhino are starting to get pretty ratty, so it'd be a nice kit for them to redo.

[Special Officer Doofy]

And now that Primaris is a thing, hopefully GW is brave enough to make a CHAOS rhino and land raider, not a loyalist one plus spikes. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

While on the subject of kits and vehicles, I'd like a decal sheet like World Eaters have. Would be nice to kit vehicles out.

 

I do wonder what the roster will look like. World Eaters have an interesting amount of infantry decals, so I wonder if they'll be able to field the standard Chaos detachments and take Legionaries/Chosen.

[Special Officer Doofy]

After today's psychic article I'm worried about Mortarion. Is he going to lose the ability to cast -1 to hit on himself?

[Dread]

It's hard for me to add anything here. I just put together a decent DG army and unfortunately haven't got to field them yet. Unfortunately I bought codex and cards so just a waste of money it seems.

 

As for vehicles why not just give a crawler the ability to leave its mortar off for transport capacity. Just a thought.

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

They really just need to make new Chaos Rhinos and Land Raiders. Like it or hate it, Primaris is the future for loyalist and they will not be getting new Rhinos or Predators when they have the Primaris versions. But Chaos is tied to first born. They should not suffer from old poopy kits because loyalist Marines moved on.

 

5 hours ago, Dread said:

As for vehicles why not just give a crawler the ability to leave its mortar off for transport capacity. Just a thought

 

While that would be cool, that would have to have been planned out before the kit was released. Someone on here did convert a PBC with a Rhino, looked pretty cool.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I'd imagine a lot of the melee weapons on plague marines are going to be rolled into fewer options (this seems to be happening with power and force weapons). The new attitude towards simplicity feels at odds with the sheer quantity of options this data sheet currently has. It'd be quite cool if they broke the plague marine data sheet into three separate ones eg. melee build, tactical build and havoc style build but I don't see it happening.

 

Based on the loyalist terminator data sheet I can certainly see Blightlords being an even tougher version. Again, I'd assume their melee weapons would get rolled into one type. 

Finally, I'd be very surprised if Feel No Pain [5+] didn't return and I'd even guess it'd be army wide as the overall faction ability, similar to Oath of Moment.