Desired changes for 10th Ed

[Special Officer Doofy]

It will be box locked but treat the box as if it was 5 marines and not 7, which is how it pretty much is now.

 

So in other news, warhammer fest showed the first 9 codexes (marines and tyranids, then admech and necrons, then in spring 2024 dark angels, custodes, orks, chaos marines and tau). So we won't get a Codex until 1+ year at the earliest into the edition. Someone also posted and said that every faction gets a new kit with a Codex, so we will get a new DG model next edition too. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[WrathOfTheLion]

14 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

It will be box locked but treat the box as if it was 5 marines and not 7, which is how it pretty much is now.

 

So in other news, warhammer fest showed the first 9 codexes (marines and tyranids, then admech and necrons, then in spring 2024 dark angels, custodes, orks, chaos marines and tau. So we won't get a Codex until 1+ year at the earliest into the edition. Someone also posted and said that every faction gets a new kit with a Codex, so we will get a new DG model next edition too. 

I'm quite happy with this. With the roadmap published, I can make quicker decisions on what armies to just go ahead and learn the index, and which ones to skip. Necrons for instance, I'll just wait for the codex. Death Guard, World Eaters, Space Wolves or even Chaos Marines, I can learn the index without worry. Chaos Marines are almost a year with the index, so even them I can make a good decision on what to do.

 

For Death Guard, I'm just going to grab my collection, maybe buy the cards or just use the online ones and then get to playing without a worry.

Edited April 29, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Special Officer Doofy]

17 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I'm quite happy with this. With the roadmap published, I can make quicker decisions on what armies to just go ahead and learn the index, and which ones to skip. Necrons for instance, I'll just wait for the codex. Death Guard, World Eaters, Space Wolves or even Chaos Marines, I can learn the index without worry. Chaos Marines are almost a year with the index, so even them I can make a good decision on what to do.

 

For Death Guard, I'm just going to grab my collection, maybe buy the cards or just use the online ones and then get to playing without a worry.

 

I like road maps. Neither of my faction's are coming out in the first year, but at least I know that and don't fill myself with false hope!

 

So if all the codex adds is more detachments (so more one in one out rules), then there shouldn't be nearly as much power creep. All the profiles and datasheets changing will be exciting enough to hold me over (which the indexes do). Death Guard are already a subfaction, don't need to get too greedy with the options. Hoping there are still rules to bring nurgle Daemons too down the road. Always fun and fluffy to splash some in.

 

I am nervous though. GW has a habit of finding a way to drop the ball with chaos haha.

[KingYertle]

Unfortunate that the 14th Legion's codex is at least a year out.  Hopefully GW uses the inevitable campaign books to produce new detachment rules for armies that have not yet received their codex.  It seemed like a waste that Warzone Charadon released at the same time as the DG codex.  Spreading out rule releases is an easy way to feed something new to stagnating armies.

 

1 new unit per codex is confirmed.  While I'd love something new, the lack of a model for the Death Guard Chaos Lord makes it an obvious choice for GW.  Even though its easy (and almost preferable) to kitbash one.

[Special Officer Doofy]

6 hours ago, KingYertle said:

Unfortunate that the 14th Legion's codex is at least a year out.  Hopefully GW uses the inevitable campaign books to produce new detachment rules for armies that have not yet received their codex.  It seemed like a waste that Warzone Charadon released at the same time as the DG codex.  Spreading out rule releases is an easy way to feed something new to stagnating armies.

 

1 new unit per codex is confirmed.  While I'd love something new, the lack of a model for the Death Guard Chaos Lord makes it an obvious choice for GW.  Even though its easy (and almost preferable) to kitbash one.

 

See I don't think it will just be a Chaos lord. DG doesn't have any specific models that are the port overs from the basic codex. Closest thing is the old resin nurgle daemon prince, but it's a nurgle DP, not specifically a death guard one. They would have done that in 9th instead of the LoV I would think.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'd expect some resculpts of our units from Dark Imperium, and that's about it for kit releases. If we're lucky, they add an infantry sculpt, but that's just wishlisting. What the army needs is a Lord of Contagion and a Malignant Plaguecaster separate and easy to acquire.

[Tokugawa]

Some previewed dreadnought and tank profiles looks good. If GW are pushing mech hard in 10th, I wish DG received a Nurgle style dreadnought/daemon walker. 

 

But rationality tell me that won't happen, we may just received a humble walking marine character, he is the leader of a subfaction(now called "detachment") and unlock a new detachment template…well, at least we are not TSons and he is not a pesti-GOR.

[JeffJedi]

Bikes: I'd love to see chopper style Death Guard Bikers

Jump Packs and/or Fly winged Possessed

Special Weapon or Toxic Weapons squad

 

"Mortarion didnt...."

Yeah, well Typhus often went against his wishes.

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, JeffJedi said:

Bikes: I'd love to see chopper style Death Guard Bikers

Jump Packs and/or Fly winged Possessed

Special Weapon or Toxic Weapons squad

 

"Mortarion didnt...."

Yeah, well Typhus often went against his wishes.

I don't want to say "impossible" but bike/jump pack is very low chance, maybe 0.7%.

 

Facts:

World eaters are not known for "slow", have multiple movement acceleration tricks in their codex, but they can't take any biker or raptor unit now.

Thousand Sons, could fly to anywhere via their psychic powers, but they also don't have any biker or jump pack units.

Death guard, famous for "slow"…

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm still confused about their bad heavy weapon rules on infantry for 10th. Not sure why if they stand still they get +1 to hit instead of -1 to hit if you move. I'm now hoping blight launchers are heavy because of that.

 

Yeah I don't want death guard bikers or jump packs. It's not in the lore. Typhus goes against Mortarion's wishes, sure, but not against the Legion's (Mortarion's) tactics and wargear.

[Special Officer Doofy]

21 hours ago, KrakenBorn said:

I really want Morty to be worth taking; I'm hoping that the Lone Operative keyword isn't restricted by wounds. It would really suck to have Morty sniped over the table by some of these powerful anti-tank guns they have been showcasing the last few days.

 

I want him to be worth taking but not an auto include, if that makes sense. Lone Operative might be too much on him. He definitely should be T12 though. He was already T8, and alot of the T8 stuff is going to T12. If guilliman went to T9 from T6 he needs to go to at least T11. He was one of the "toughest" primarchs barring maybe Vulcan, but becoming the chosen one of nurgle (the daemon of toughness) probably gives him the edge. I'm also hoping he keeps his -1D, 5+++ and somehow make his miasma spell a datasheets ability for on a roll of 2 or 3+ he gets -1 to be hit. With all the new anti tank stuff and oath of the moment, he is a sitting duck without it.

 

21 hours ago, KrakenBorn said:

Also I hope their faction ability remains as disgustingly resilient 5+++ FNP with a detachment to give the existing contagion ability.

 

I would love for the faction ability to be DR and go back to 5+++. That's my biggest wish of 10th. That way it goes onto rhino's, helbrutes and the other vanilla codex port overs. I was never too keen on the contagion ability though. DG's best melee in 8th was Mortarion (duh), deathshroud, flails on plaguemarines and Blightlords, and the mower drone. But Mortarion already had the aura built in, and deathshroud, the flail and the mower all lost 1S going into 9th to compensate for the -1T. Our best melee didn't really get that much better from it, it just made our worse melee better. But I didn't want to be pigeon holed into melee anyways, we are the slowest army in the game.

 

My big fear now is our complete lack of anti tank. Multi meltas are only 18" and S9 from the previews on warcom. Blighthaulers will be worthless unless they make the multimelta on them a different gun. What unit is going to have our S14-16 gun like the repulsor and tyrannofex? The predator model is terrible, and will be absolutely terrible if it doesn't get DR. The PBC? Can't be the mortar, that would be too OP. Maybe their entropy cannons? I'm not sure. I doubt the mower and deathshroud will go from S8 (well S7 - 1T) to S12+. It's one of the most glaring issues for our faction that I can see leading up to our index release, and I forsee vehicles and monsters being overtuned this edition (would love to be wrong though).

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[Tokugawa]

Information from the factions previewed by GW show that rerolls to wounds may still be common(oath, twin-linked weapons, genestealer etc). "Reroll wounding rolls of 1" don't make sense as faction signature ability any more. "Always wound the xyz type target on X+" is a better solution.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Tokugawa

[Special Officer Doofy]

12 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Information from the factions previewed by GW show that rerolls to wounds may still be common(oath, twin-linked weapons, genestealer etc). "Reroll wounding rolls of 1" don't make sense as faction signature ability any more. "Always wound the xyz type target on X+" is a better solution.

 

Nah, I rather have plague weapon and reroll wounds. I don't like anti this or that, because it only works on that. I've played against armies with no vehicles and armies with no monsters. I don't want those kind of weapons. Just give us plague weapons.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Some sort of heavy squad would go a long way as well, adding in some crucial anti-tank. I think just one more infantry kit would do Death Guard, World Eaters and especially Thousand Sons a lot.

Edited May 6, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[KingYertle]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:01 PM, Tokugawa said:

Information from the factions previewed by GW show that rerolls to wounds may still be common(oath, twin-linked weapons, genestealer etc). "Reroll wounding rolls of 1" don't make sense as faction signature ability any more. "Always wound the xyz type target on X+" is a better solution.

 

If Transhuman-esq abilities are just as prevalent in 10th as in 9th then I would definitely be in favor of this.  Its similar to the old Poison rule that Dark Elder had access to where certain weapons always wounded infantry on a 2+.  I could also see them making Plague weapons auto wound on critical hits as its simple and somewhat thematic.  I'd argue Devastating Wounds is more thematic (mortal wounds on 6s) but that is pretty strong.

 

EDIT originally had Devastating Wounds and Lethal mixed up.

Edited May 8, 2023 by KingYertle

[Tokugawa]

10th limits of Daemon ally is quite loose; don't need to bring HQ or battleline anymore. 

[KingYertle]

4 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

10th limits of Daemon ally is quite loose; don't need to bring HQ or battleline anymore. 

 

If its truly pick any daemon unit you like then this will really open up our army build options.  I am definitely intrigued.  

 

Unfortunately the article doesn't have any teasers about DR.  The Bileblade on the GUO has Lethal Hits (6s autowound) which could be an indicator of Plague Weapon direction, although Nurgle Daemons didn't technically have plague weapons in 9th.

 

The Keeper has a Daemon Lord of Slaneesh Aura that provides +1 AP.   I wonder if we will see similar unique Auras for the 4 daemon affiliations.  Shouldn't be a stretch to assume the actual Daemon Lord datasheet will also have the Daemon Lord Aura ability.  

 

While Disgustingly Resilient SHOULD Be our Faction Ability, it could be relegated to a Datasheet Ability, with Contagions of Nurgle continuing as the Faction Abilities using a similar mechanic to The Shadow of Chaos in that it effects an area of the battlefield based on how many objectives are under our control.  That could be very interesting.

 

 

 

 

[Tokugawa]

Need to notice that allied daemon units don't have any "shadow of chaos" related ability. The datasheets need to be useful enough for picking as allies.

[WrathOfTheLion]

It'll depend on the datasheet abilities of each unit. Some of the ones, like heralds, etc. that have some psychic utility will probably be useful in their own right.

[Tokugawa]

Most psychic abilities go to weapon attacks in 10th. And with the "character leading unit" mechanics, many psychic buffs only affect the unit the psyker joined. 

 

Maybe only very powerful heroes has universal utility psychic powers which could choose target freely. Even Belakor doesn't has these(his psychic abilities have some auras but daemonica related), so I can't expect GUO or poxbringer could bring DG extra tools.

[Special Officer Doofy]

19 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Most psychic abilities go to weapon attacks in 10th. And with the "character leading unit" mechanics, many psychic buffs only affect the unit the psyker joined. 

 

Maybe only very powerful heroes has universal utility psychic powers which could choose target freely. Even Belakor doesn't has these(his psychic abilities have some auras but daemonica related), so I can't expect GUO or poxbringer could bring DG extra tools.

 

While true, I love my big fat great unclean one and he needs to see the table! I rarely play pure daemons and they really only see the table with my DG. If my brother or buddies make a fun fluff list (little bit of everything, not min maxing and spamming their best units), I'll bring some nurgle daemons for fun.

 

I think the best balance is having the option to bring nurgle daemons, but not having that be the best option. I'm sure there are imperium players that want to mix armies and don't have the option like we do, so I wouldn't want bringing daemons to be the meta option.

[Tokugawa]

10th keeper of secret keeps its -1 hit and 4+, and also get mandatory 5+ fnp(which also replaced the Slaanesh fnp psychic power). Looks GW move fnp to a Slaanesh ability instead of Nurgle.

[Special Officer Doofy]

3 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

10th keeper of secret keeps its -1 hit and 4+, and also get mandatory 5+ fnp(which also replaced the Slaanesh fnp psychic power). Looks GW move fnp to a Slaanesh ability instead of Nurgle.

 

I mean it's just the shield wargear option. It's not like all their units are going to have it.

[Verbal Underbelly]

I'm excited at the prospect of using Nurgle daemons as seasoning for a Death Guard force without having to muck about with force org. charts and extra detachments.

Having one or two Beasts of Nurgle would look brilliant in amongst your plague marines, helbrutes etc. Has a really illustrative feel to it. 

 

[Tokugawa]

Indirect fire penalty is much softer than in 9th. Which is good for PBC.