Desired changes for 10th Ed

[Tokugawa]

3 hours ago, Verbal Underbelly said:

I'm excited at the prospect of using Nurgle daemons as seasoning for a Death Guard force without having to muck about with force org. charts and extra detachments.

Having one or two Beasts of Nurgle would look brilliant in amongst your plague marines, helbrutes etc. Has a really illustrative feel to it. 

 

Since the game is going "less lethal", if beasts still have the ability to instantly recover full health, it would be very attractive.

[KingYertle]

Wednesday May 17th, is the 3rd Day of the 3rd Week of 40k Faction Previews.  Will GW Preview Death Guard as the 3rd Chaos Space Marine Faction???

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

On 5/15/2023 at 3:43 PM, KingYertle said:

Wednesday May 17th, is the 3rd Day of the 3rd Week of 40k Faction Previews.  Will GW Preview Death Guard as the 3rd Chaos Space Marine Faction???

 

 

Would be nice but I don't think GW is as clever as you are haha.

 

Edit: you are right! It's death guard

Edited May 16, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[Tokugawa]

"Tomorrow we’ll be trading the swiftness of the Aeldari for the plodding inevitability of the Death Guard."

 

!

[KingYertle]

On 5/15/2023 at 3:43 PM, KingYertle said:

Wednesday May 17th, is the 3rd Day of the 3rd Week of 40k Faction Previews.  Will GW Preview Death Guard as the 3rd Chaos Space Marine Faction???

 

 

The Sacred Numbers Never Lie

[Special Officer Doofy]

Fingers crossed disgustingly resilient is our faction bonus (so it applies to everything) and that it's back to 5+++! 

[Tokugawa]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

Fingers crossed disgustingly resilient is our faction bonus (so it applies to everything) and that it's back to 5+++! 

If the defensive signature ability of DG is fnp, then in 10th format it would just need a word "fnp" in datasheet to describe it, no need to occupy the army rules section. In this way GW could also choose to grant different fnp number to different units, e.g. Morty 4+, plague marine 5+, zombie 6+. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

If the defensive signature ability of DG is fnp, then in 10th format it would just need a word "fnp" in datasheet to describe it, no need to occupy the army rules section. In this way GW could also choose to grant different fnp number to different units, e.g. Morty 4+, plague marine 5+, zombie 6+. 

 

And that's how you end up with a helbrute, predator, land raider, rhino and defiler without DR. No thanks. Plus the army rules on every single datasheet are going away, like ATSKNF. DR is not exempt from that.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy
Grammar

[Tokugawa]

31 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

And that's how you end up with a helbrute, predator, land raider, rhino and defiler without DR. No thanks. Plus the army rules on every single datasheet are going away, like ATSKNF. DR is not exempt from that.

That is how GW accurately adjusted what unit are "more real DG" and what are not. In 8th and 9th they already did that. MBH/FBD/PBC receiving more support from DG rules set than "universal marine" vechicles is reasonable. I feel comfortable about this setting since I don't want to buy random expensive FW stuff and see it patched after several months. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Tokugawa

[Special Officer Doofy]

Hahahaha. No more DR all together. Terminators went back to 4" movement. No plague marine datasheet shown or Mortarion. Still trying to pigeon hole them into melee with the contagion. Thanks GW... 

[Tokugawa]

No damage reduction at all! Disappointed!

[KingYertle]

Well that just totally killed my motivation for 10th.  Way too take the best part about the faction and just dump it.  I dont get it.  We are just Orcs in Power Armor now.

[WrathOfTheLion]

We've not got a great picture of how the army works, as we don't know Mortarion's auras, of which it looks like they do a choice of three for these big characters.

[Special Officer Doofy]

2 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

We've not got a great picture of how the army works, as we don't know Mortarion's auras, of which it looks like they do a choice of three for these big characters.

 

So the army works around one character? Morty isn't a buffer. We saw they lost their universal special rule. We saw the faction and detachment bonus, the only rules that DO show how the army works. Barring significant points drops what else are you expecting/hoping to see really?

[WrathOfTheLion]

41 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

So the army works around one character? Morty isn't a buffer. We saw they lost their universal special rule. We saw the faction and detachment bonus, the only rules that DO show how the army works. Barring significant points drops what else are you expecting/hoping to see really?

It was an example of something that can make a large change in the faction. Similarly, we've seen nothing the Lord of Contagion, Lord of Virulence or any other characters besides the Malignant Plaguecaster do for the army, whether it be buffs to units or interactions with the Nurgle's Gift rule.

 

So like with every faction they've showed off so far, we need to see the index to figure out what all the pieces do.

[KingYertle]

I sent GW's Customer Service a request to Buy Back all my Death Guard models.  I obviously know they don't care about my dumb opinion, but it made me feel better!

 

Its a Fact that DG is one of the more popular factions.  This really feels like GW is deflating their impact on the table to push DG Players to try out something new.  

 

Obviously everything right now is conjecture and maybe our T5 and 3+ save really is a big deal in 10th, but I am having trouble seeing how DG will be "Renown for their undying resolve" or how we have "some of the toughest UNITS in the game".  

[danodan123]

16 minutes ago, KingYertle said:

I sent GW's Customer Service a request to Buy Back all my Death Guard models.  I obviously know they don't care about my dumb opinion, but it made me feel better!

 

Its a Fact that DG is one of the more popular factions.  This really feels like GW is deflating their impact on the table to push DG Players to try out something new.  

 

Obviously everything right now is conjecture and maybe our T5 and 3+ save really is a big deal in 10th, but I am having trouble seeing how DG will be "Renown for their undying resolve" or how we have "some of the toughest UNITS in the game".  

 

Why would you do that?

[KingYertle]

Ok I need to focus on something positive.  Lets see if I can find it.

 

PLAGUECASTER:

PROS

-Bolt weapons are now Plague weapons with Lethal Hits!

-Gift of Contagion, unit with 18 inches gets -1W but Melee only.  Still, -1 to Wound is a legit ability.   83% chance of success, so its not guaranteed.

 

CONS

-No Change in Statline (Ld 6+ is mathematically similar to Ld8 I believe), which highlights the loss of DR (+1 W would have been easy to offset the DR loss)

-No more -1 to Hit Spell

-No Mortal Wound output

-Pestilential Fallout.  This one is odd.  Range is only 12 inches, so at maximum range the unit likely drops to M4 and would need a 10 inch charge to be successful.  At close range, say 8 inches the target only needs a 6 to succeed on the charge (assuming they can move 4 inches first) so how often will this actually matter?

 

BLIGHTLORDS:

PROS:

-Lethal Hitting bolt and melee weapons.

-Flail remains 6 attacks!

-Reroll 1s to W for Ranged weapons when targeting closest enemy unit.  

-+1 Attack with melee weapons

 

CONS:

-Worse statline then Standard SM Terminator due to M4 and no DR.

-Axes lost point of Str.  At Str5 the -1T has no impact for T4 or T3 units. 

-Now wound T4 on 3s rather than 2s. 

 

Blightlords are Slower, less Killy and less Durable.  The Faction Army Rule has no effect vs Most units in the game.  How did GW think this would be a good unit to preview to build excitement???

-

Plague Weapons Autowounding is a Nice change.  However I would have preferred something more compatible with our Faction Rule of a -1T aura.

 

I failed to find anything really positive...

[Cleon]

Blightlords do seem fundamentally under armed in melee - everyone who doesn't have a flail is wounding marines on 3s (my aura, it does nothing!) and they get a 5+ save and it only does one wound - basically they are the sgt of a loyalist Terminator squad, but auto wound on a 6 to hit... but then there are no power fists backing him up, as soon as you find anything with a decent toughness and multiple wounds it's only the flail who is going to be doing any damage. 

[Bulwyf]

I am upset by this faction preview. We have been gutted. There is no other way to say it. Not having any FNP or -1 to damage rule removes the literal hallmark of Death Guard going back to the 90's. This army is still the slowest in the game but now it doesn't have any defensive tools to help it survive. Unbelievable. The designer comments are even more infuriating to me. This army has NEVER been about spreading a -1 toughness debuff which thanks to everyone's toughness going up means little to nothing. This army HAS always been about toughness and shrugging off damage to balance out being the slowest army in the game.

 

Now we are just slow and Orks in power armor. Fantastic. Thanks GW! 

[Marshal Mittens]

Yes, this preview very much took the wind out of my sails. I think my deathguard are going to be sitting on their shelves for a bit. It's very sad, almost nothing shown here was an improvement and there are so many nerfs. 

[KingYertle]

Blightlords did pick up an extra attack.  On its face that sounds great, but the change in STR from 6 to 5 on the Axe negates any benefit of the extra attack.   We go from wounding T3 on 2s rerollings 1s to wounding on 3s with a 16% chance to autowound on the hit.  Doing out the math they are statistically even at about 2 wounds.   However that is reliant upon getting the autowound so while it is statistically even I think it will play out much less reliably on the table.  So once again, this is more of a nerf even though it is statistically even.  

 

Also, how do we deal with Armor?  Previously STR 6 Blightlords were fairly decent at chewing up T7 tanks thanks to the -1T and +1 to Wound strat.  Fast moving or Scout moving vehicles were already difficult to deal with.  

 

Hoping the reason our Codex is delayed is because the playtest feedback was terrible and changes will be coming our way.

[KingYertle]

5 hours ago, KingYertle said:

I sent GW's Customer Service a request to Buy Back all my Death Guard models. 

 

So Amazingly GW responding and Actually DID offer to refund me.  Here is the exact response

 

"You can either pop in your local Games Workshop store where the staff will receive the items on our behalf and let us know so we can process the refund/exchange. Please note they will need to see proof of purchase before this can be done. Unfortunately we are unable to provide refunds for items that are not current range, have been assembled/painted etc"

 

I'm not actually going to do this of course, but I did let them know that I really appreciated the response and they responded in turn that they have passed along my comments regarding to the design team.

 

Nice job turning around my attitude GW!

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

6 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

It was an example of something that can make a large change in the faction. Similarly, we've seen nothing the Lord of Contagion, Lord of Virulence or any other characters besides the Malignant Plaguecaster do for the army, whether it be buffs to units or interactions with the Nurgle's Gift rule.

 

So like with every faction they've showed off so far, we need to see the index to figure out what all the pieces do.

 

One unit should not make a large change. And with us losing DR, there is a zero chance Mortarion keeps -1D, 5+++ and the ability to cast -1 to be hit on himself (might retain 1, maaaybe 2). All of that is needed for him to even be playable, specially with all the new S12+ anti tank weapons around (look and Be'lakor, he kept -1 to be hit but lost his -1 to be wounded and his -1D from ranged). LoC and LoV will not be able to join PM's most likely and just terminators. The Plaguecaster doesn't even do anything to the unit it joins except has a chance to deal MW to them when it rolls bad. I don't care what a few pieces do or if the surgeon adds a FnP. That's one unit that gets it, that does not make up for the entire army losing the ability.

 

I'll probably sit this edition out like I did 7th edition.

[Bulwyf]

You should NEVER need one character or one unit to make your army actually work on the tabletop. Anyone pinning their hopes that somehow Morty or Typhus or some other character will have rules to offset these losses are just fooling themselves.