++ World Eaters - 9th Edition Tactica ++

[WrathOfTheLion]

Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!

 

Now that reviews are starting to come out for World Eaters and the Codex is up for preorder today, I figured we should start a tactica thread for 9th Edition, however short that may be. I don't think we're quite ready for a Unit of the Week entry without getting a decent grasp on general army tactics and builds. Similar to the other Legion threads, it's intended to discuss things such as

 

• Combinations
• Army Lists
• Unit roles
• Army composition
• Use of strategems, warlord traits, relics, etc.
• Other general tactics

 

Especially with the new Codex in, I think it's going to be good to start theorizing, experimenting or otherwise figuring out what works, and what doesn't.

 

Some useful resources so far

• Goonhammer article on the new Codex

[dice4thedicegod]

I’m feeling that the optimal build is probably loads of minimum sized units , except for two decent size eightbound units to start next to invocatus.

[Khornestar]

I can’t wait til this thread is crackin’.

 

Seems like 5 eightbound is a consensus of sorts, though smaller units have their place, perhaps for those that aren’t getting pregame moved.

 

Random thought: Berzerker icons are no longer an auto take on every unit IF spamming berzerkers, since only one icon unit can 3d6 charge per turn.

 

I would like to try out various transport options. Rhinos, land raider, dreadclaws… Outflanking too, I guess.

 

20 outflanking jakhals making a 3d6 charge sounds like a lot of fun.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Khornestar

[WrathOfTheLion]

I plan on trying out transports, with generally a bit more of a combined arms approach. I want to try out supplementing what we've got with some decent range, trying out Predators, Land Raiders, Terminators and Helbrutes with some ranged weapons.

 

Spawn look to be an easy way to farm blood tithe points, I think a couple single units harassing the enemy will both be effective for doing that and good with the BT points if they kill them.

[dice4thedicegod]

Yeah, a couple of spawn out front to soak first turn smites and provide 2 btp is probably a good investment.

 

im wondering if a karanak and a few 5-strong flesh hound units might be good screening/early pressure or if it’s going to dilute the army too much .

[WrathOfTheLion]

Allying in Khorne Daemons could be an interesting way to go, although I don't know how much it will add. I'd need to try it out, but I don't have Flesh Hounds yet.

 

Although they're pricy, I do think getting that high strength hits with PF/CF on Terminators could be useful. The army doesn't lack mid strength high volume attacks, so I want to see how getting them into a different role than Eightbound/Berserkers works.

 

[Toldavf]

I wonder how a monster mash would look. Tossing in an Exalted BT on top of angry Ron it really gonna make your opponent struggle with his firepower allocation.  You could also probably comfortably fit in a unit of blood letters and maybe 1 other unit if you like.

 

I am not sure how WE will look for warp locus units, but it is possible the lord invocatus might have it which then begs the question how do you exploite that? Your turn 2 could be devastating as you deliver Khorne deamons right into the enemy lines. Of course that's speculation, we havn't seen which if any units will have warp locus yet. 

 

 

[MadEdric]

My Sons are still Machine junkies. I’ll be dusting off the Defiler and getting a predator or two ready.

I’ll be starting off with 10 Jakhals, 6 8Bound, and Lord Invocatus added in, Angron later. So losing a couple Venom Crawlers, Warp Smith, and 2 5 man Legionnaires squads should help make way for keeping my Helbrutes and Fiends.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

2 hours ago, dice4thedicegod said:

Yeah, a couple of spawn out front to soak first turn smites and provide 2 btp is probably a good investment.

 

im wondering if a karanak and a few 5-strong flesh hound units might be good screening/early pressure or if it’s going to dilute the army too much .

I like Karanak and flesh hounds. I think an allied demon Prince with King of Blades relic would be better than Karanak. It’s provides a lot more killiness. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Anyone else curious about dual land raider lists? I know most often they are too expensive to be worth it, but a land raider is only 35 pts more expensive than purchasing a rhino and a predator annihilator with full lascannons. Less target saturation for a tougher assault vehicle. 
 

I’m thinking about trying out MSU (4x5) Zerkers in Land Raiders

[Khornestar]

13 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Allying in Khorne Daemons could be an interesting way to go, although I don't know how much it will add. I'd need to try it out, but I don't have Flesh Hounds yet.

 

Although they're pricy, I do think getting that high strength hits with PF/CF on Terminators could be useful. The army doesn't lack mid strength high volume attacks, so I want to see how getting them into a different role than Eightbound/Berserkers works.

 

 

I think eightbound and perhaps more so exalted have the high strength multidamage role covered great. Especially their champions with their lacerators on regular eightbound.l and double chainfist exalted eightbound champion. Moreover, the terminators are getting the classic -1 to hit on fists. S. Eightbound hitting on 3’s or exalted on 2’s.

 

Of course the +1 to hit blood tithe buff can mitigate that, so there’s some nuance there. Still, terminators all kitted with fists are getting more S9 attacks in the end, I think. So one advantage there.

 

15 minutes ago, Bloody Legionnaire said:

Anyone else curious about dual land raider lists? I know most often they are too expensive to be worth it, but a land raider is only 35 pts more expensive than purchasing a rhino and a predator annihilator with full lascannons. Less target saturation for a tougher assault vehicle. 
 

I’m thinking about trying out MSU (4x5) Zerkers in Land Raiders

 

I only own one land raider so I’ll use it, but two is an interesting prospect. Certainly does maximize the soulshatter lascannons and high toughness, which are neat.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Khornestar

[Bloody Legionnaire]

1 minute ago, Khornestar said:

 

I only own one land raider so I’ll use it, but two is an interesting prospect. Certainly does maximize the soulshatter lascannons and high toughness, which are neat.

 

I don't own any for my World Eaters right now, but they are probably my favorite 40k tank/vehicle and I'd love to have more in my collection. Considering World Eaters don't have the options other armies have, there's not as much competition getting of the way of the LR IMO. Hopefully Dual LR's with monster mash will be doable and it'll be enough target saturation to increase the survivability of the LRs. I know there's some armies out there that'll be able to wipe them off the board early, but then again blood tithes! 

[Toldavf]

zerkers in land raiders do come to just shy of 1k which is pricey. 

I am as of yet undecided on whether MSU is the right way to run zerkers because of blood surge. Sure we all know the strength of MSU but removing 5 marines ain't all that hard, and having one surviving marine mooch forward ain't exactly amazing.  

There's also a rumour that blood surge will help you finish actions instantly which if true is amazing ofc you would have to be alive to do that but I can think of a few uses for it. 

Also interested to see if they get the icon keyword, less relevant for WE but regual CSM will want to run them if they do. 

[Trokair]

Originally I was planning on running a Pred (or two), with Las Dread(s) at times, similar to what I do with my Thousand Sons but the idea of a Land Raider or two for large games is really beginning to appeal.

[Dr. Clock]

Definitely MSU for me.

 

I wrote a list to run exactly 64 minis:

 

25 Zerks (5x5)

21 Jakhals (10+11)

Lord Invocatus

Lord on Juggernaught

Master of Executions

8 Bloodbound (2x4)

3 maulerfiends

1 Rhino

3 Spawn

 

It doesn't feel bad at all tbh; probably what I'll run first; only thing I'm missing is Bloodbound, and they're en route.

 

Karanak and co. will be a fun alternate list, and when I want to take my Disco Lord in patrol it's the same points if I just swap jakhals back to regular cultists. Remains to be seen whether basic juggerlord is preferable to Disco and I suspect that CSM cultists are more efficient than jakhals for rearguard campers. Full horde of like 50 jakhals will get on the table at some point too for lulz.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

[Toldavf]

1 hour ago, Dr. Clock said:

Definitely MSU for me.

 

I wrote a list to run exactly 64 minis:

 

25 Zerks (5x5)

21 Jakhals (10+11)

Lord Invocatus

Lord on Juggernaught

Master of Executions

8 Bloodbound (2x4)

3 maulerfiends

1 Rhino

3 Spawn

 

It doesn't feel bad at all tbh; probably what I'll run first; only thing I'm missing is Bloodbound, and they're en route.

 

Karanak and co. will be a fun alternate list, and when I want to take my Disco Lord in patrol it's the same points if I just swap jakhals back to regular cultists. Remains to be seen whether basic juggerlord is preferable to Disco and I suspect that CSM cultists are more efficient than jakhals for rearguard campers. Full horde of like 50 jakhals will get on the table at some point too for lulz.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

Looks solid.

Invo + 8 bound move ahead and will attempt early charges (imporant to disrupt as much enemy shooting as possible), maulerfiends draw fire, zerks do most of the heavy lifting while Jakals hold objectives and do actions, the spawn battery some BTP. 

Looks like it comes in 3 waves which is ok but 2 would be preferable. 

 

 

[Dr. Clock]

12 minutes ago, Toldavf said:

Looks solid.

Invo + 8 bound move ahead and will attempt early charges (imporant to disrupt as much enemy shooting as possible), maulerfiends draw fire, zerks do most of the heavy lifting while Jakals hold objectives and do actions, the spawn battery some BTP. 

Looks like it comes in 3 waves which is ok but 2 would be preferable. 

Cheers,

 

I hear you on the 'waves' question. I can't tell whether it's better to put Invo with both 8B units as early-game missile, or play a bit cagey and use him to surge 2 units of Zerks forward pre-game. 8bound come with a high enough move that they can chill with the basic Lord and still keep up with the Mauler death ball (and Rhino)

 

Instead of 5x5 Zerks the answer might be 2x8 w/ Invo pre-game move plus 1x9 in Rhino with MoE. Slightly less MSU/flexibility, 2 less BTP but gets a bit more buff efficiency and possibly a bit less likely to get picked off piecemeal even though it's also less Turn 1 charge potential. I feel like the T1 charge strategy is not one to bank on in general though anyway?

 

Cheers again,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[Khornestar]

6 hours ago, Toldavf said:

zerkers in land raiders do come to just shy of 1k which is pricey. 

I am as of yet undecided on whether MSU is the right way to run zerkers because of blood surge. Sure we all know the strength of MSU but removing 5 marines ain't all that hard, and having one surviving marine mooch forward ain't exactly amazing.  

There's also a rumour that blood surge will help you finish actions instantly which if true is amazing ofc you would have to be alive to do that but I can think of a few uses for it. 

Also interested to see if they get the icon keyword, less relevant for WE but regual CSM will want to run them if they do. 

I remember hearing from a few of the competitive YouTube channels that there are very few actions where this ability will end up being useful. Art of War did say it would end up being better when using berzerkers in a CSM list. I play tempest so I think it might have use there too.

 

MSU vs full unit is an interesting subject. Maybe a bit of both? Overkill is fun but inefficient; MSU easy to simply wipe out before they do anything. 10 man units or multiple 5 man units allow for the greatest amount of eviscerators, so that’s my biggest consideration. We finally get a super good melee weapon!

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

2 hours ago, Khornestar said:

I remember hearing from a few of the competitive YouTube channels that there are very few actions where this ability will end up being useful. Art of War did say it would end up being better when using berzerkers in a CSM list. I play tempest so I think it might have use there too.

 

MSU vs full unit is an interesting subject. Maybe a bit of both? Overkill is fun but inefficient; MSU easy to simply wipe out before they do anything. 10 man units or multiple 5 man units allow for the greatest amount of eviscerators, so that’s my biggest consideration. We finally get a super good melee weapon!

 

 

There's very little I can think of. The Red Corsairs secondary in CSM I think might be like that, but not much off the top of my head.

[MadEdric]

I think I’ll be running a bit of both, one 10 man (or 9 if I have a character to run with them), and 2 5 man units. 

My Bezerkers are there to kill things, not do actions. So I’m unsure if blood surge will ever be used.

[Ryan the Betrayer]

Newbie question. 
 

can I run Lord Invocatus and Khârn at the same time, making LI the Warlord?  I’m not sure the rules around HQs and army building.  That seems surprisingly hard to find online.

[dice4thedicegod]

Yes.  The restriction is that if you run angron then he has to be the warlord.

 

if you run non-angron HQs then you get to choose.  And invocatus is a good choice!

[Kaiju Soze]

On 2/6/2023 at 12:13 AM, WrathOfTheLion said:

There's very little I can think of. The Red Corsairs secondary in CSM I think might be like that, but not much off the top of my head.

Red Corsairs got changed to end of turn in Arks.  Icons are useful in WE for the charge strat, useful in CSM for the +1AP, but the Action completion basically only matters in a couple of specific scenarios (at least as far as Matched Play goes).

Edited February 14, 2023 by Kaiju Soze

[Prot]

Is there still a way to use Invocatus’ trait if Angron is in the list? I don’t recall seeing a strat to do so?

 

I’m personally leaning towards MSU. I want to get my survivability from unit rules weather than big squads. I want to generate as many Tithes as possible so lots of small squads. 
 

Other angles I am thinking of but don’t hear much is including the plasma pistols in Zerkers as long as points allow.  The fact that kills in different phases of the game can make a big difference made me consider finishing units off with over charged plasma. This is also why I want Termies. 
 

Three single spawns will probably be in some of my lists, I can’t see using less than 1. 
 

8 bound seem to be all the rage right now but I like the Exalted for a slightly different role. I think they are fully autonomous and can be a high damage threat.. higher than most infantry units and again the won’t need any buffs or auras to get the job done while being slightly more survivable. I also love the 4+ entrapment which can be very handy against certain opponents. I plan on starting mine in a landraider most games. 
 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Prot said:

Is there still a way to use Invocatus’ trait if Angron is in the list? I don’t recall seeing a strat to do so?

 

I’m personally leaning towards MSU. I want to get my survivability from unit rules weather than big squads. I want to generate as many Tithes as possible so lots of small squads. 
 

Other angles I am thinking of but don’t hear much is including the plasma pistols in Zerkers as long as points allow.  The fact that kills in different phases of the game can make a big difference made me consider finishing units off with over charged plasma. This is also why I want Termies. 
 

Three single spawns will probably be in some of my lists, I can’t see using less than 1. 
 

8 bound seem to be all the rage right now but I like the Exalted for a slightly different role. I think they are fully autonomous and can be a high damage threat.. higher than most infantry units and again the won’t need any buffs or auras to get the job done while being slightly more survivable. I also love the 4+ entrapment which can be very handy against certain opponents. I plan on starting mine in a landraider most games. 
 

 

There is no way to use Invocatus' trait if you take Angron. There is no strategem to give out an extra Warlord trait, so if you take Angron, he must be your Warlord and you will lose out on that.

 

MSU I think is a good idea. Spawn are going to be good there.

 

Termies are going to be great for those shooting phase kills, same with things like Predators, Land Raiders and Helbrutes. Points are going to vary here, and in my mind, I expect in 2 or 3 months we'll see reductions on those to match the reductions in other factions. They should be more competitive after that.

 

Eightbound are the rage right now, but just one points hike will leave folks reevaluating spamming them. I personally am going for a combined arms approach (Termies, Berserkers/Rhinos, Predator, Helbrute), with the staples of some Eightbound, Chaos Lord on Jugg, Lord Invocatus, etc.

Edited February 20, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion