Firstborn or Primaris?

[Djangomatic82]

Hmmm, I generally like First Born more due to the customization and aesthetic, but i've converted ALOT of press-fit intercessors into firstborn datasheet models, like company vets and all kinds of other units.

At first, i thought the larger scale to the new primaris was an actual factor in paint ability for the models, but having recently gone through my refined painting process in testing out different techniques on a whole bunch or regular tactical marines, I don't see much of a difference in how easy or quickly one is to paint versus the other.

Personally, I think the scale increase of Primaris is the ONLY benefit. I really dislike the design aesthetic that they have taken with them, they are all too Star Craft/Halo wannabes for my taste, even the BGV's.

 

[Blindhamster]

I prefer the primaris models due to proportions and scale, I also prefer their generally cleaner look (I used to mix veteran or chapter specific bits with unadorned models with firstborn as too much bling looks dumb).

 

that said, I’m absolutely envious of some units that haven’t made the jump, particularly as a blood angel player

[phandaal]

19 hours ago, Djangomatic82 said:

Personally, I think the scale increase of Primaris is the ONLY benefit. I really dislike the design aesthetic that they have taken with them, they are all too Star Craft/Halo wannabes for my taste, even the BGV's.

 

 

Apparently this is confusing for some, but I get what you mean.

 

Personally, I do not like all the extra plates, cabling, and other extraneous bits that come with the Primaris aesthetic, but with a little bit of converting, cutting, and kitbashing it looks pretty great.

 

Some people do enjoy the Primaris aesthetic as is, of course, which is fair enough. Unless someone says they like Suppressors, in which case they are lying.

Edited February 24, 2023 by phandaal

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Have you even seen any of the Black Templar models ? They are all just amazing literally. Gone is the ape like look due to overlong arms. Put any of the characters beside the old models… it’s obvious which are the better sculpts.

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Have you even seen any of the Black Templar models ? They are all just amazing literally. Gone is the ape like look due to overlong arms. Put any of the characters beside the old models… it’s obvious which are the better sculpts.

I'd love new MK VII sculpts in that vein. I think they'll do new ones at some point, but they absolutely won't have ball joints at the waist. If they do them, they'll be in the same style as the Primaris, new Chaos Space Marines and MK VI Horus Heresy kits.

 

When I have my opinion that they won't go away, that doesn't mean I think the old style of sculpt will stay. That's a done deal, if they redo Devastators for instance, they're basically a 'Primaris' kit even if in MK VII armor, in that the legs and torso will be congruent and they will be rescaled to match.

 

That said, I'm interested to see what they do with the Dark Angels and Blood Angels sculpts as well.

 

17 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I prefer the primaris models due to proportions and scale, I also prefer their generally cleaner look (I used to mix veteran or chapter specific bits with unadorned models with firstborn as too much bling looks dumb).

 

that said, I’m absolutely envious of some units that haven’t made the jump, particularly as a blood angel player

I have been doing the same with my Space Wolves, who are all firstborn (the army is done when it's done), otherwise they look too much the same. The Primaris ones I think are just a bit too plain, but I also wish I could adorn them up just a bit more than they are right now. They don't need to be quite so blinged up, but they need the ability to be just a little bit more blinged up than where they are.

Edited February 24, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Captain Idaho]

4 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Have you even seen any of the Black Templar models ? They are all just amazing literally. Gone is the ape like look due to overlong arms. Put any of the characters beside the old models… it’s obvious which are the better sculpts.

 

There are plenty of improvements GW has introduced with Primaris models, but I'd like to point out Calgar in Terminator armour is definitely better than Calgar in Gravis armour.

 

Whilst that could be considered "subjective", I've seen more people without bias, including non-hobby girlfriends who said so.

 

So it's not cut and dry "the new models are better."

 

In fact, I personally only think the MK10 and Heavy Intercessors can even claim such things. The Phobos line look like something from Fortnite, Aggressors look clumsy and Inceptors look like they're not of the Grim Dark either.

 

Regarding the Black Templars characters... Helbretch's head is astonishingly bad and ruins the model. I actually find it in poor taste as to what it looks like and I won't say here because it'll offend people. Regardless, he looks similar to the original, barring some silly things like cleaning the blade as it's in the Ork.

 

The Emperor's champion is a good model, but it's just a bigger version of the original. It's not superior.

 

There are some definite wins though. New Tigurius and Mephiston were better, even with the Stormcast Eternal knees.

 

So really, what I'm saying is the new Primaris stuff isn't a clean cut win aesthetically. They're the supported model line.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[WrathOfTheLion]

New Azrael is definitely a nice, faithful update of the original model. Hopefully Dante will be similarly impressive.

[Captain Idaho]

2 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

New Azrael is definitely a nice, faithful update of the original model. Hopefully Dante will be similarly impressive.

 

I actually forgot they updated him. Yes that is a nice sculpt and better received. Also in MK10 armour...

[Tacitus]

7 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

New Azrael is definitely a nice, faithful update of the original model. Hopefully Dante will be similarly impressive.

Yeah, I think they dropped the ball on Shrike.  I'm sure they did it because they wanted to give him some shooting, but I'd have preferred a 2LC - Gauntlets of Ultramar - wrist rocket pistol things instead of 1 gun, one talon thing, and one boot knife thing. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

18 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Yeah, I think they dropped the ball on Shrike.  I'm sure they did it because they wanted to give him some shooting, but I'd have preferred a 2LC - Gauntlets of Ultramar - wrist rocket pistol things instead of 1 gun, one talon thing, and one boot knife thing. 

I'd've much preferred they crossed MK X with MK VI for some cool artificer armor for him. He's not my least favorite though. I personally like the phobos more than most of the gravis stuff, although the changes made for heavy intercessors/eradicators really improves it.

[Captain Idaho]

 Shrike is an Infinity miniature masquerading as a 40K one... I hate that model.

 

I quite like the "modern" take on Gravis. Much better than when it first came out.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[Marshal Reinhard]

5 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I'd love new MK VII sculpts in that vein. I think they'll do new ones at some point, but they absolutely won't have ball joints at the waist. If they do them, they'll be in the same style as the Primaris, new Chaos Space Marines and MK VI Horus Heresy kits.

They've alreaady done some MKVII like that, see "space marine heroes" series 1.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Old GK next to the new Crowe sculpt says it all.

[Captain Idaho]

 

3 minutes ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Old GK next to the new Crowe sculpt says it all.

 

Isn't that justification for new Firstborn 

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

Isn't that justification for new Firstborn 

I think, as WrathOfTheLion says, if we get new firstborn, they'll be scaled to similar to primaris size (like Crowe) and have some primaris features (abdomen detailing and ankle detailing most obviously). They will almost certainly be setup like all other modern kits with the legs and torso being "one piece" too (very likely in the same format of 2x5 identical sets).

 

If the above happened, I imagine many firstborn fans would be annoyed, whilst many primaris fans would say "cool" and buy them as they have gotten used to and bought into the modern miniature structure.

Not sure it's really a win overall for firstborn fans. In many ways, you guys would probably be happiest if they DON'T update the models and just retain rule support.

 

I still will keep banging the drum of wanting a "tactical intercessor" kit that replaces both the tactical and intercessor squads, where its a mix of mkIV-X armours* where they're all roughly the same scale and could be firstborn or primaris, tacitcal weapon options but with bolt rifles (with or without the 3 variants, though i'd prefer they keep them as the synergy with special/heavy weapon choices would make a really versatile and interesting squad in the classic marine way). This would be such a stellar kit IMO.

 

*think something like:

• 2mkX
• 2mkVII
• 1mkVI or IV
• perhaps with some options for alternative parts to make some of them into different things like alternative shins and fronts for torsos and heads to do mkIV or V, not sure you could realistically cover mkII or mkIII

 

 

[Marshal Reinhard]

8 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I think, as WrathOfTheLion says, if we get new firstborn, they'll be scaled to similar to primaris size (like Crowe) and have some primaris features (abdomen detailing and ankle detailing most obviously). They will almost certainly be setup like all other modern kits with the legs and torso being "one piece" too (very likely in the same format of 2x5 identical sets).

Don't forget the butt detailing

(I think it's one of the more noticable steps up in the design... the old mk7 kit just sort abbreviates everything into a square box that the upper legs extend from. The primaris marine butt seems more thought out)

[Kallas]

15 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I think, as WrathOfTheLion says, if we get new firstborn, they'll be scaled to similar to primaris size (like Crowe) and have some primaris features (abdomen detailing and ankle detailing most obviously). They will almost certainly be setup like all other modern kits with the legs and torso being "one piece" too (very likely in the same format of 2x5 identical sets).

Improving the scaling of Firstborn would be great. The MkVI Tacticals look great, and the key really is the legs - the bow legged look is probably the single most egregious issue with Firstborn models in terms of looks.

[Blindhamster]

40 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Improving the scaling of Firstborn would be great. The MkVI Tacticals look great, and the key really is the legs - the bow legged look is probably the single most egregious issue with Firstborn models in terms of looks.

I'm not convinced they'd match up to the HH stuff, that stuff is actually a different scale even to 40k stuff, they aren't in scale with Crowe for example (they're thinner, with smaller hands and slimmer arms, heads are also slimmer). But, of course I could be wrong and new firstborn for 40k specifically could be done to scale with HH stuff.

 

Personally, I'd prefer firstborn got scaled to look better beside primaris, they should be a smidge shorter if in the same pose (crowe fits the bill there). But that's just me.

[Beef]

List wise i could not say as i havent played a game since 5th edition, however i did play the starter set from 8th edition with my kids,  I only have Primaris now after getting rid of my first born some 15 years ago.  

 

Now like other Space wolf players i miss the customisation of first born but prefer the aesthetics' of Primaris.  Maybe the nest route for me would be to do a firstborn list but using Primaris marines.  

[Marshal Reinhard]

56 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I'm not convinced they'd match up to the HH stuff, that stuff is actually a different scale even to 40k stuff, they aren't in scale with Crowe for example (they're thinner, with smaller hands and slimmer arms, heads are also slimmer).

There is some truth to this. Ever a purveyor of bits I have gotten quite a few plastic HH bits, and I was surprised when a sergeant sword with attached hand from the latest beakie batch ended up looking really tiny in comparison to my other ones. Head bits too are noticeably different when held side by side, but I don't feel its as noticeable once assembled.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Kallas]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

I'm not convinced they'd match up to the HH stuff, that stuff is actually a different scale even to 40k stuff, they aren't in scale with Crowe for example (they're thinner, with smaller hands and slimmer arms, heads are also slimmer). But, of course I could be wrong and new firstborn for 40k specifically could be done to scale with HH stuff.

 

Personally, I'd prefer firstborn got scaled to look better beside primaris, they should be a smidge shorter if in the same pose (crowe fits the bill there). But that's just me.

I wasn't saying they had to be HH-like especially, just that the HH models look better because of the proportions and lack of bow legged squatting that they're doing.

Better scaled Firstborn models would be nice, but I think it's unlikely we'll see them for 40k, it'll all be Primaris going forward as it has been since 8th.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m very curious to see what geedub does with GK going forward.

[Captain Idaho]

Me too. I can't see new Firstborn Grey Knights, I think Crow was an older design they had lying around. I believe that's why there's been nothing else since and we're close to 10th.

 

Personally I believe we'll see Grey Knights released as a big new Primaris wave.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I for one could see them remaining the same, though rescaled. 

 

Their equipment is already unique, and they won't get crossover units from the existing primaris range like intercessors. If the rumor of the keyword going away is true, they could just give them access to the new vehicles , maybe with an upgrade kit that gives them unique pintle weapons like psycannons and that'd be that.

[Galron]

I keep them separated. I have a Howling Griffin army I am slowly painting that is all first born. I have some people in my area doing the Badad 2.0 rules(essentially HH 2.0 but Badab). Then I have a Star Phantom chapter I work on, on occasion when the mood strikes. I just dont find the primaris line as interesting as the older ones, which is weird to me since I think the armor actually looks cooler. I am just not as motivated to paint them in any scheme.