Speculation on Inevitable Conflict with Luther

[WrathOfTheLion]

With Arks of Omen: Vashtorr, and the inevitable lead in to Arks of Omen: The Lion, the Dark Angels and a crew of merry followers are now headed to the Somnium Stars, chasing after Vashtorr who fled there. As we know from our 9E supplement, Luther (supposedly) and a large force of Fallen are now gathering in the Somnium Stars, although their intentions are unclear.

 

How do y'all think they're going to handle the inevitable conflict that's going to occur there, now that all the relevant parties will end up in roughly the same part of the galaxy. The Somnium Stars is a quite large region, so it may not be immediate, but I'd expect that these locations are not coincidental.

 

As we know now from this lore snippet in The Lion: Son of the Forest,
 

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He’ll even need to rally his Fallen knights, who have been hunted across the galaxy as they awaited the day their father would return.

 

Some of the Fallen are clearly going to end up pulled into the Loyalist side of the divide here, so there's a lot of possibilities of what might happen.

Thoughts?

Edited March 29, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[phandaal]

I think the story could either be awesome or really not awesome depending on how they handle it... waiting with some trepidation.

[Brother Tyler]

I think that we're going to see a reconciliation and a culmination of the Hunt for the Fallen. Going back to the old lore, Luther realized the enormity of his betrayal and appeared to submit to the Lion before the Chaos Gods, deprived of their hoped-for victory over the Lion, created the warp storm that destroyed Caliban and sucked the Fallen through space and time. Here's the quote from the 4th edition Codex: Dark Angels (because my copy of the 2nd edition Codex: Angels of Death is in the attic somewhere):

 

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...But as the dying Primarch struggled to stand, his noble features wracked with pain, it was as if a veil was lifted from Luther's eyes and he realised the full extent of what he had done. His was a triple betrayal: of his friend, of the Dark Angels, and of the Emperor. The truth shattered his sanity and he slumped down beside Jonson, his will to fight lost.

 

Variations of that have appeared in successive codices.

 

The 8th edition Codex: Dark Angels even tells of Luther's ravings (prophecy) that one day the Lion would return to forgive him.

 

I won't bother trying to predict specifics, especially those with regard to the relationship between the Lion and Luther (there might be total forgiveness, or the Lion may impose some form of punishment on Luther). I think that the majority of the Fallen - those that haven't died or turned to Chaos - will find forgiveness from the Lion and will be accepted back into his grace. Cypher will play a key role in engineering any sort of reconciliation and will be revealed as a loyal follower of the Lion. This will create a conflict of sorts in that the Unforgiven will then have to contend with their Hunt coming to an end. There will be some friction between the Fallen and the more diehard elements of the Unforgiven. This will mostly work itself out, however, in that the Fallen will answer the call to serve the Lion and most will die in combat against Chaos and the machinations of the Arkifane (and if GW does a bad job of writing this, they will reveal that the Arkifane's intent all along was to manipulate this series of events).

 

In the long run, we'll see the surviving Fallen either accepted into the Unforgiven Chapters (those that don't still harbor a grudge) and/or organized into their own Chapter(s) whose names will evoke the original Order. The interesting aspect of this will be how GW then changes the focus of the Unforgiven from the Hunt for the Fallen to the influence of the Dark Angels Legion upon the Unforgiven Chapters. We'll likely see the preservation of the unique elements of the Unforgiven, though they'll be adapted (regressed?) to something more closely resembling the First Legion versions. The only ones really left out in the cold will be the Interrogator Chaplains.

 

While the Lion's future seems assured, the fate of Luther and Cypher will be interesting and is open to conjecture. If either/both survive, it would seem only appropriate that they be given suitably spiffy (and updated, in the case of Cypher) models and rules. Azrael will survive, of course, because his embiggened model was just released. So this calls into question exactly where these three individuals will coexist with each other. I could easily see Luther given control of a new Chapter (composed of former members of the Fallen), with Cypher either serving within that Chapter or gaining control of his own Chapter. Again, either of these outcomes depends upon the principals surviving. Or perhaps these two will form the core of the Lion's key circle of advisors, with the three models released as a single set (a la Guilliman's original release). That seems less likely to me since the Lion is going to be released with Bladeguard. The most likely outcome in my mind is that Luther will die in battle, finding the Lion's ultimate forgiveness and (ironically) being subsequently honored via a memorial on the Rock. Perhaps they'll turn his old prison into a shrine to him and the Fallen (and maybe they'll feel a wee bit of guilt for killing so many of them through the millennia). It's really Cypher whose future I wonder about.

 

Or maybe something completely different will happen.

[Galron]

The Lion will forgive Luther and then kill him. The remaining less chaosy traitors will rally to the Lion's side and we will see the rebirth of the legion. And the Star Phantoms will stop picking fights with anyone who suggests they are related to the Dark Angels and tell everyone they were the Dread Wing all along.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Galron

[Triszin]

Resolution of the story.

Luther is a string character, I assume he gets "retired". Or we see a 

knight errant "lord" appear who.alwsys wears a helmet.

 

I hope we see the fallen storyline conclude.

The fallen who haven't fallen to chaos, are forgiven.

 

Loyal: knights errants

Chaos: fallen knights

 

 

 

 

[FarFromSam]

11 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

. This will mostly work itself out, however, in that the Fallen will answer the call to serve the Lion and most will die in combat against Chaos and the machinations of the Arkifane (and if GW does a bad job of writing this, they will reveal that the Arkifane's intent all along was to manipulate this series of events).

 

 The only ones really left out in the cold will be the Interrogator Chaplains.

 

The bit about bad job of writing hits the nail on the head.  I agree with much of what you wrote.  Perhaps the Interrogator Chaplains may interestingly find a gig working with cypher.  As his his a title,  and role within the legion rather than a named character.   The Chaplains are good with secrets and might find themselves being useful hunting information, or modern day moritats. 

 

Alternatively, "Never forgive,  Never forget."  Is a pretty absolute... absolute.   

 

GW, please write it well.  So many options to have it turn out interesting.   

[WrathOfTheLion]

Luther is a fascinating character in the setting. I'll need to think about it more, but I'm of the opinion they should either go with mostly a reconciliation or make him go full Chaos there. The thing I don't want is his story to end there. With him sitting out a lot of the Heresy, although perhaps they'll bring him in for parts of that, we don't really get a whole lot of him acting on stage.

Edited April 5, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion
grammar

[Azoriel]

Something that I feel often gets overlooked about the Fallen (and would apply to Luther as well) is the question of whether or not they're willing to fight for the Emperor and the Imperium.  If they don't want to fight for the Emperor, then as far as the Imperium as concerned, that pretty much puts them in the same camp as those Fallen who have fully embraced Chaos.  Luther, while regretting his actions, doesn't see the need to seek redemption, simply saying the Lion will forgive him.  In the most recent iteration of him that's been presented (Luther, First of the Fallen), I've never really got a pro-Emperor or pro-Imperium vibe from him, and in fact quite the opposite every time he weighs in on the matter.  While I think Luther will redeem himself in the eyes of the Lion, I suspect it will likely be through his death, accepting an untimely demise at the hands of Marbas while using his oratory skills to convince the gathered Fallen to fight for the Lion (looking something like the climax to the film "First Knight").  This would allow him to "redeem" himself without ever having to find that pro-Imperial spirit within himself that he never seemed to have.

As for Interrogator Chaplains not getting with the program, the Lion has a history of dealing with Chaplains who don't accept his leadership decisions, though the last ten thousand or so years may have softened the Last Great Beast of Caliban some.

[Helias_Tancred]

Yeah definitely all in on reconciliation and then they fight side by side, or he's lost to Chaos and the Lion slays him outright!

 

No gray area. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Azoriel]

19 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

Yeah definitely all in on reconciliation and then they fight side by side, or he's lost to Chaos and the Lion slays him outright!

 

No gray area. 

I think you've misconstrued what I've said here; what I've posited is not a matter of who are the good guys vs who are the bad guys, but rather who is motivated by what.  That is, simply being the enemy of my enemy does not make someone my friend (especially in 40k).  An Imperial Fists marine and Craftworld Farseer might both hate Chaos, but that shared hatred doesn't mean they're buddies.  Many of the non-Chaos Fallen seem inclined to just hide and do their own thing - unless the Fallen want to fight for the Lion now (which I suspect there will be some impetus for them doing so in the coming novel), there will be no reason for the Fallen to want to change the status quo regardless of whatever olive branches are extended their way.

[Tacitus]

We'll end up with the Status Quo that feels like it has changed.  GW does a lot of minor changes that actually don't change anything.