Rumour Refreshes for the big chapters coming

[spessmarine]

unique units for each chapter? fortunately Forge World did all the leg work for ideas and fluff so GW just needs to give them 40k rules and/or plastic them

give the sallie their firedrakes/pyroclasts and so forth

 

6 hours ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

An Ultramarine upgrade set should definitely include tyranid trophies though. The Tyranids should always be the Ultramarines main rivals in the setting.

the UMs hog everything, even rivals

 

1 hour ago, Wispy said:

Primaris Thunderwolves or I riot.

 

rout*

[Subtleknife]

9 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

Bro, I literally addressed that. 
 

Honor Guard is a codex compliant unit, and as someone else said, used to be applicable to EVERY codex chapter, but the UM were the only ones with the models. 
 

Tyrannic War Veterans are exactly that: Veterans of the Tyrannic war. Guess what, at this point, far more than the UM are Tyrannic war veterans, and it doesn’t make sense that THE codex chapter has them if it isn’t a Codex thing (special unit wise). 

So I maintain my position: The Ultramarines should not have any special units that no one else can get, because special units are deviations from the codex that they are so compliant with. 
 

Instead they should get some other rule, have more flexibility, and such. I’m not even opposed to having named units (like the Vitrix Honor Guard) who have unique load outs. The thing is that isn’t a special unit, that is a unique codex standard. A sort of “hero” unit, so to speak. A “character” squad. 

 

The honour guard is a separate Unit to the Victrix Guard. The lore for the Victrix Guard says that they must have served in the Honour Guard before they can serve in the Victrix Guard. They are a distinct formation, do all the mental gymnastics you like, the formation is not applicable to every other chapter. Case in point, why are they exclusive to Ultramarines in the supplement if they are available to every other chapter like you say?

 

Tyranic War Veterans, again a detachment exclusive to the Ultramarines. They were formed by Cassius. 

 

Plus, lets assume you are right and I am wrong, there is no reason why GW can't institute lore changes to justify each first founding getting a unique unit like in 30k. It could even be just a small upgrade sprue. It makes each chapter feel special and allows a bit of uniqueness. Is that a bad thing to ask for?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Subtleknife

[Orange Knight]

In 10th edition they are moving away from chapter specific special rules into detachments with key bonuses.

 

In view of this, a lot of army distinction is going to come from datasheets and units. For this reason they should explore and expand the unique, chapter-specific units and characters.

[Lord_Ikka]

It is possible that instead of brand-new chapter specific units we see more unit upgrades from GW. So instead of the Raven Guard getting a specific Phobos unit, they get an upgrade sprue for Reivers or Infiltrators that contains some unique weapons/wargear. It would be a way for all the other codex-compliant chapters to get unique units without GW having to bother with completely designing new units or shifting a lot of production away from current units- they can just run a bunch of "chapter" upgrades that are more based on weapons and equipment rather than the current shoulderpads/heads/one different ccw. 

[Matrindur]

9 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

It is possible that instead of brand-new chapter specific units we see more unit upgrades from GW. So instead of the Raven Guard getting a specific Phobos unit, they get an upgrade sprue for Reivers or Infiltrators that contains some unique weapons/wargear. It would be a way for all the other codex-compliant chapters to get unique units without GW having to bother with completely designing new units or shifting a lot of production away from current units- they can just run a bunch of "chapter" upgrades that are more based on weapons and equipment rather than the current shoulderpads/heads/one different ccw. 

Of course completely unique units would be nice but as long as it's an actual upgrade sprue and not just throwing in the chapter shoulder pads like with the Hounds of Morkai I would be fine with that

[Cleon]

7 hours ago, Castellan Wulfrik said:

..... I don't think chapters from other geneseeds would be so welcoming of an Ultramarine chaplain coming in to create para-organisational units within their chapter. 

 

Indeed, the last time a Preacher from a book obsessed Marine force went around setting up those sorts of thing it all ended rather badly... Curse you Erebus!

[Redcomet]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

Primaris Thunderwolves or I riot.

Then riot 

[Blindhamster]

49 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

The honour guard is a separate Unit to the Victrix Guard. The lore for the Victrix Guard says that they must have served in the Honour Guard before they can serve in the Victrix Guard. They are a distinct formation, do all the mental gymnastics you like, the formation is not applicable to every other chapter. Case in point, why are they exclusive to Ultramarines in the supplement if they are available to every other chapter like you say?

 

Tyranic War Veterans, again a detachment exclusive to the Ultramarines. They were formed by Cassius. 

 

Plus, lets assume you are right and I am wrong, there is no reason why GW can't institute lore changes to justify each first founding getting a unique unit like in 30k. It could even be just a small upgrade sprue. It makes each chapter feel special and allows a bit of uniqueness. Is that a bad thing to ask for?

Whilst you are kind of right, blood angels actually had honour guard as a unit before everyone else.

 

they lost them after gaining sanguinary guard though - which were clearly designed as a replacement. So yes, blood angels have honour guard, just by a different name 

[beefeb]

Specific kits!!!! I would settle for more 40K specific decal sheets like they did for about 30 minutes, several years ago......they were fantastic and included decals for each company banner, and a multitude of other things.  They sold out in double quick time and despite repeated requests from various areas of the hobby they have never been repeated.

 

GW at times seems to have a crazy market research approach....there are a host of sources showing great demand for products of a certain type (greatcoat guard etc etc) yet they willfully overlook these things.  I really wonder how they decide to progress certain things (Desolators?!?) and not others (no more DKoK kits).   

 

Im sure there will be chapter specific goodies, but Im not sure whether that will be a good thing or not......keeping my fingers crossed though since I an eternal optimist.

[Triszin]

as for my timeline guess

 

summer-fall

Tyranid Wave 1.1 starts sept

tyranid wave 1.2 is feb

 

Marines:

generics: aug w/dante

DA range refresh: oct

 

BA range refresh  next may 2024

 

Wolves: we may see a single new/updated model by end of 2024

WOlves WONT see a range refresh until 11th.

[RS1169]

3 minutes ago, Triszin said:

as for my timeline guess

 

summer-fall

Tyranid Wave 1.1 starts sept

tyranid wave 1.2 is feb

 

Marines:

generics: aug w/dante

DA range refresh: oct

 

BA range refresh  next may 2024

 

Wolves: we may see a single new/updated model by end of 2024

WOlves WONT see a range refresh until 11th.

seems plausible. I agree with the SW update. I would think GW would wait to update them until Russ is on the way. I do think the terminators/characters (Njal and Arjack) could be updated before then though. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I want chapter unique units, and by unique I mean more than a chapter upgrade kit on a standard kit.

 

i want them to be visually interesting, I want them to have unique loadout that no standard vanilla squad can take.

 

HIs + shields and a pose allowing rifles to be braces on/against the shield and maybe even a rule to allow one missed shot to be rerolled for IF.

 

unfortunately a lot of chapters just don’t have particularly unique visuals though.

[WARMASTER_]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:05 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Valrak has a trusted source saying DA getting a refresh and a new source saying BA and SW are also getting a refresh.

 

 

Guess this means you’re not 100% convinced we’re not getting anymore Chapter unique kits then ;)

[Wispy]

I think the Black Templar refresh is probably instructive of what is going to happen with the other chapters.

 

Two unique kits, jumbo upgrade sprue, and refreshes of characters currently in finecast.

[Arkangilos]

10 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

The honour guard is a separate Unit to the Victrix Guard. The lore for the Victrix Guard says that they must have served in the Honour Guard before they can serve in the Victrix Guard. They are a distinct formation, do all the mental gymnastics you like, the formation is not applicable to every other chapter.

So you are telling me that no other chapter has their own elite honor guard in their lore? That the UM are the only ones that have elite honor guard in the entire galaxy?

 

PS, they are, according to the lore, honor guard:

”They were later instituted during the Era Indomitus as a formation of the Ultramarines Honour Guard hand-picked by the primarch himself as a reward for exemplary service.”

Just to reiterate my position: I am not talking about units that are “named” like Vitrix Guard when I say special units. I am talking about specific units with no equivalents.

 

So when I say, “UM shouldn’t have their own special units” I’m not talking about things like the Vitrix Honor Guard (which are their own Honor Guard). I am saying that all chapters should have their own form of it (which can have different rules). But like the Death Company is a special unit that only BA can have and there is no way non-BA successors can have them. I don’t think the BA should be the only ones to have Jump Pack honor guard (the SG), because Honor Guard isn’t a special unit. The load out can generally be unique (like the Encarmine Blades and their special bolters), but why shouldn’t other chapters be able to have jump pack special honor guard? Raven Guard should, etc. 

 

Another example are crusader squads and sword brethren. The BT aren’t codex compliant, so they have special units no one else can access.

 

So I’m not against named units for the UM, just units that have no analogue in other codex compliant chapters. Does that make sense?

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Subtleknife]

25 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

So you are telling me that no other chapter has their own elite honor guard in their lore? That the UM are the only ones that have elite honor guard in the entire galaxy?

 

PS, they are, according to the lore, honor guard:

”They were later instituted during the Era Indomitus as a formation of the Ultramarines Honour Guard hand-picked by the primarch himself as a reward for exemplary service.”

Your argument is akin to saying the Sanguinary Guard are just Honour Guard. No other Unit has the Victrix Guard no. They are a unique unit for the Ultramarines.

 

"the Victrix Honour Guard have since been officially instituted as a formation of the Ultramarines"

 

They are distinct from the usual Honour Guard. You have to serve in the Honour Guard to be selected for the Victrix Guard. That would suggest they arent just the Honour Guard by a different name. I've already alluded to this but you failed to address it.

 

"no Space Marine can join them without having first served in the Ultramarines Honour Guard,"

 

Also, you have not addressed my previous comment about assuming you are right, GW can easily changes the lore to give each first founding something unique to keep everyone included. 

[Arkangilos]

4 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Your argument is akin to saying the Sanguinary Guard are just Honour Guard. 

They are.

 

 Also, I updated my last post to restate my position. It should answer your question.

[jaxom]

[Lemondish]

19 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

Not when we are talking about all special units.
 

DC had their own dedicated kit. I didn’t have to buy multiple kits to build one special unit.

 

SG had their own dedicated kit. I didn’t have to buy an upgrade kit.

 

DW were the same. 
 

Are you really wanting to go down that road? 

It's becoming harder and harder to understand what it is you're trying to say. That's been a theme here, so could you try and be clearer on what you're trying to say so we can avoid further confusion.

 

I would also appreciate if your attitude could be less combative. I'd love to go down whatever road you want provided it's done together in a collaborative and friendly matter, not whatever this tantrum is.

[Arkangilos]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

It's becoming harder and harder to understand what it is you're trying to say. That's been a theme here, so could you try and be clearer on what you're trying to say so we can avoid further confusion.

Alright, so what I was saying that you responded to in regards to the kits was that 1) The kits that @Inquisitor_Lensovenwas complaining about were those where you had to buy two separate boxes to make one special unit.

2) I agree that is dumb. 
3) I agreed with you.

Then you snidely said that’s what happens when you have a special unit.

 

Then I pointed out that that is not how it is, because I have plenty of special units that come in one box, and are not simply upgrade parts.

 

I then responded to the snide way you said it by saying do you really want to go down that road, because not only are you factually wrong, but you seemed to have an attitude about it, and I’m more than willing to keep proving you wrong.

 

I do want to say, though, it was likely just a misunderstanding on my end of what you were saying, and if so I apologize.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 minute ago, Arkangilos said:

Alright, so what I was saying that you responded to in regards to the kits was that 1) The kits that @Inquisitor_Lensovenwas complaining about were those where you had to buy two separate boxes to make one special unit.

2) I agree that is dumb. 

Then you snidely said that’s what happens when you have a special unit.

 

Then I pointed out that that is not how it is, because I have plenty of special units that come in one box, and are not simply upgrade parts.

 

I then responded to the snide way you said it by saying do you really want to go down that road, because not only are you factually wrong, but you seemed to have an attitude about it, and I’m more than willing to keep proving you wrong.

Even if they put the basic kit in with an upgrade sprue like with the CP boxes it’s still stupid lol.

[Cactus]

I don't know the details of the Hounds of Morkai, but if GW packaged the new terminators with an extra sprue and called it a Deathwing squad, even with a price bump over the vanilla kit, I would be very pleased.

I don't see why "existing kit + new sprue = new unit' is so objectionable.

[Arkangilos]

4 minutes ago, Cactus said:

I don't know the details of the Hounds of Morkai, but if GW packaged the new terminators with an extra sprue and called it a Deathwing squad, even with a price bump over the vanilla kit, I would be very pleased.

I don't see why "existing kit + new sprue = new unit' is so objectionable.

I think it depends on how it is done, I spose. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

1 hour ago, Subtleknife said:

Your argument is akin to saying the Sanguinary Guard are just Honour Guard. No other Unit has the Victrix Guard no. They are a unique unit for the Ultramarines.

 

"the Victrix Honour Guard have since been officially instituted as a formation of the Ultramarines"

 

They are distinct from the usual Honour Guard. You have to serve in the Honour Guard to be selected for the Victrix Guard. That would suggest they arent just the Honour Guard by a different name. I've already alluded to this but you failed to address it.

 

"no Space Marine can join them without having first served in the Ultramarines Honour Guard,"

 

Also, you have not addressed my previous comment about assuming you are right, GW can easily changes the lore to give each first founding something unique to keep everyone included. 

I just want to say Blood Angels had a seperate Honour Guard unit to Sanguinary Guard they had Jump packs and a banner bearer and apothecary and acted as command squads at the company level also when Ultramarines Honour Guard first showed up in a codex it was a generic unit for any of the regular chapters however the the Ultramarines had much more of them (I made like 20 of them and was super pissed when 8th took them away) and that's what gave rise to the Victrix Guard formation wich with the new detachment system we could very likely see again but due to the nature of the new detachment system they won't be locked to any one chapter. Honour Guard should come back as a Primaris unit for all Chapters but that said I'd love to see the actual Victrix Honour Guard get expanded beyond just the two bodyguards Calgar has.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

Guess this means you’re not 100% convinced we’re not getting anymore Chapter unique kits then ;)

Unique kits? I’m joy holding my breath for them, but I’d love to be wrong, and hopefully I am.