10th ed Nids Rules thread

[Brother Nathan]

Thought it may now be worth collecting the teased rules and discussing potential tactics etc. Anyway...

 

 

sustained hits-critical hits(6s) give extra hits

lethal hits? critical hits (6s) auto wound

Precision- succesful wounds against a target unit with character attached can be allocated to said character

twin-linked =reroll wounds

torrent auto hit

deadly demise- on death each unit in 6' on a roll of a 6 suffers x mortals

assault= can advance and still fire

twin linked= reroll wounds

pistol=can shoot while in cc.

scouts- pregame move remaining outside of 9'

 

assault can run and shoot

blast, add plus one for each full 5 in target unit 

deadly demise- on death each unit in 6' on a roll of a 6 suffers x mortals

heavy=if stationary +1 to hit

blast+1 shot for each 5 in target unit

 

Heavy=if stationary +1 to hit

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Brother nathan

[ZeroWolf]

I still find it interesting that the biggest difference (stat wise) between the two Termagaunt Datacards is the +1 LD.

 

The detachment rules seem alright, basically asking you what threat you'd like to be have an edge against each game.

[Brother Nathan]

Yeah i like the detachment rules but we had that flex current dex and pretty quickly lost it. Hopefully it works how it seems though itll appear we loose synaptic enhancements but doubt it matters though ill miss t1 inv saves.

Im assuming the gaunt datasheet differences are just so one is the starter set can include the rippers

[ZeroWolf]

Yeah that was my assumption as I'd imagine the rippers will be on a separate datacard anyway.

[Brother Nathan]

Exact. By the sounds of it rippers will stay on termagaunt sprues and not enough for a full squad so only viable way to feild them in the starter though does make them just a wound sheild by how bad they currently are thats fine

[ZeroWolf]

What rules would you like to see for them on their own datacard? I've been out of the loop on current nid rules but back in 3rd I ended up taking them just to spend points and even then they never seemed to do much.

[Brother Nathan]

Theve never been great but have been cheap for their wounds and could have taken a slight focus to kill off an objective. Currently they are terrible and overpriced. They need to automatically get q good coversave if they get cover but be very vunerable to blast and flames and be cheap. Nothing specially special  just fodder tbh but they are small so prob should be -1to hit...

[ZeroWolf]

Agreed, that would help matters.

 

In other news, we'll be seeing a new nid unit this week on WarCom so we may see some new rules there.

[Brother Nathan]

So they say but they have changed their estimated output several times in the last few weeks... are about due something...

[Xenith]

I think WarCom said they're only looking at Nid units next month right? Also, great idea for a thread! 

 

Hyper aggression (6 to hit auto wounds) looks really strong, with the amount of weak firepower we might be able to bring. I'm presuming characters will be attached to units as members of those units this edition, so precision shots on 6's to hit will be great also, on BS4+, 33% of our hits will be precision so we might be half decent at plinking wounds off characters. 

[Brother Nathan]

ĶI thought it a good idea to get some discussion was a good way to do so. I can imagine these could be good rules to have... how strong depends on many factors but the weapons stats and characters defensice profiles could mitigate pretty well. A third of hits against a unit being rolled against attached charactet sounds nice but with no ap or seeming way to gain it yet may be lucky to do a few wounds. More oppertunity in bigger multishots popping something. Exocrine for eg. And that you can choose makes it feel more like a good working form of combat doctrines. Though with likely loss of synaptic imperatives how much of a loss is that. I only really used 2 per game ill prob make it work. 

Hope though weve a way to reduce damage for a turn

[Brother Nathan]

Follow on with the new characters rules seems our characters are going to have to be a part of their units. Makes sense again. Primes with warriors and neuros with zoans. Broodlords back in with stealers much as i did like them operating seperately. Am guessing tyranys must be near guard to gain lone operators and same terviagon to termagaunts. Will the parasite  be similar? Using gargoyles? Deathleaper is it going to the vonryan leaprrs? Oldone eye joining actual units of carnifexes?

[Xenith]

Oh ho ho, imagine a tervigon actually having to be part of the unit of gaunts? That's insane. You'd need to severly stack precision buffs to get anywhere near them. I can see Tyrant Guard forming a unit with the tyrant, that makes 100% more sense than whatever they've tried to go with the last few editions. 

[Brother Nathan]

yup would deff sort the tyrant guard issues... though thoughts of what to add for flyrants? think they may get access to those drone spores seen in the vid?  do we also think the restrictions on tyrants will stay? i think and hope so. 

anyone else patiently reloading the gw page to see whats next... supposedly vesicle preview is due which wil impact on how we kill and im expecting boost to vehicles durability likely to match where our monsters have went. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

If we get vehicle rules today it'll be the last article that goes up so 3-4ish.

 

I'm holding out hope that next week brings us a peek at the new Screamer Killer and rules (though they haven't talked about rules for the leapers yet)

[Brother Nathan]

Dont thry do demo games with the new stuff at the end of this month? Think if so we will see something new tomorrow. The veichle stuff from today has me wondering where our monsters will go from where they are. I dont think current stats will be as far off as marines obviously were. Just how far off points will be

[ZeroWolf]

Yup at Warhammer Fest. Just speculation on my part but I'd be surprised if the demo games weren't just the contents of the launch box which means nid rules galore (even if just starter stats)

[Brother Nathan]

So todays article was on weapons upgrades. Whilst weve only seen one units weapons sofar whats the early thoughts. Spinefists looking better than initially but devourer looking the worse off. Flesh borer being a good looking mid ground. Perhaps they all end up sitting level? Thoughts?

Edited April 14, 2023 by Brother nathan

[Zoatibix]

I think the fact that Fleshborers get Assault gives them the edge over Devourers. 

 

From the way the Assault rule is written it sounds as if models cannot shoot at all if they Advance. 
 

I quite often Advance and shoot with my Termagants, the extra distance and not standing about to get shot up by by the enemy are often useful. 
 

Spinegaunts…they have flexibility as Assault offsets the very short range of their guns. Can potential cause a few wounds by going John Wick in melee range.
 

But if all the guns cost the same points, I can see Fleshborers being the default choice. Strength 5 is a significant break point for an anti-infantry weapon.

[Brother Nathan]

pretty much but not terrible abilitys all round guessing against marines t4 save 3+ 10 gaunts (anyone wants to do a bigger test/ better please do(30 may work better for %ignoring)

 

fleshborer, 1 shot str 5 18 range and (currently)18 with extra d6 range essentially; so 10 shots,bs4 5 hits , 66%wound so 3 wounds 1 failed save.

spinefists, 2 shots str 3 with rerolls to wound  12" with extra d6 range; so 20 shots 10 hit. 33% rerolling...  5 wounds? (33%)2 failed saves? pistol rules unknown atm

devourer 2 shots str 4 18inch range...  so 20 shots, 10 hits 5 wounds. 2 failed saves. (well 1 in 3...)

 

so in range and actually doing their full 10 shots spines work pretty well but shorter range makes it harder to get, but then can advance and shoot(no mention of charge) whilst devourer cant advance and shoots better. not terribly unbalanced tbh. bu then theres also rumoured to be a new wounding table... spinefists re rolling wounds could be epic or crap depending on break points. im guessing most wont touch vehicles and strats and other supporting mechanics.... think ill probably stay default as im not going through the whole rebuilding all my gaunts with spine fists then back to fleshborers again phase... 

[Zoatibix]

Those numbers work out a lot closer than I expected they would.  That’s good if one option isn’t flat out better.

 

I was hoping that Spinegaunts would get a pip of AP to make them the ‘anti armour’ variant but the RR Wounds and two shots seems to be effective.

[Brother Nathan]

that and if they can be shot in cc still gives them a further boost. sofar seemingly weve no peircing and marines do on their bolt rifles so waits to be seen where our costs and weapons output come in

[Brother Nathan]

whats the thought son the new terrain rules? personally i like them. marines not tanking it in cover on a 2+ against our small arms makes my gaunts feel a bit better and them ossibly getting a plus 1 ap by climbing up buildings seems interesting. may be excellent for likes of hive guard etc. 

[Zoatibix]

My take shamelessly copied from elsewhere:

 

The benefit of cover rule isn’t meant to be realistic. I believe it’s meant to do the following: 

Give lightly armoured infantry some benefit from being in cover. 

Give heavy infantry some benefit against armour piercing weapons while in cover. 

Prevent heavy infantry in cover from being a chore to deal with by AP0 weapons. 

The latter may not be realistic but as someone who had to try dealing with canny marines in cover back in the Age of Contempt, I think that would be very frustrating. 

Saying armies should be given assault units forgets that some armies or players want to play shooty. And that Marine players would promptly turn around and complain that they were being out assaulted by e.g. Tau.

As some folks have allied to, getting Plunging Fire requires a GW equivalent building with two stories so shouldn’t be too common.

Unless an Objective marker can be put on the first floor in such an example, the same unit wouldn’t be able to use PFire **and** claim something in the ground, hopefully forcing the player to make a choice.

 

 

I have seen a couple of Marine players getting salty about no more 2+ cover saves but I have zero sympathy for them.

[ZeroWolf]

Putting this here as well as the one in the news thread. I've seen a lot of people talking about the models but very few paying attention to this: