Do you plan to use Indomitus Terminators?

[Marshal Mittens]

As we all know, 40k is getting new Terminators. Current lore, as I understand it, is that mostly only the Imperial Fists imployes them in large numbers in Horus Heresy. Do any of you plan to employ them in your Horus Heresy Forces? 

[SlickSamos]

Preliminary Information (Uncontroversial):

The Iron Hands were heavily involved with their design (see Gorgon Terminators).  Chaos likely had access to them as that's their kit in 40k.  Every Loyalist re-armed from the Sol system would have likely had access to them (IF, BA, WS, RG & SW).  

 

Approximate timeline with Power Armour marks as reference (mostly uncontroversial):

- Cataphractii is a rough parallel to Mk. III Power Armour; (original post said Mk. II but Mk. II was developed many years before Cataphractii which appears to have come a lot later than I originally thought)

- Tartaros was developed in a similar period to Mk. IV Power Armour with similar systems; and,

- Indomitus is similar to Mk. VI Power Armour in that it was certainly in development before the Horus Heresy but it's exact spread and usage is unclear, (and this is the controversial bit) however it was probably in development before Mk. VI (see two paragraphs below)

 

Given GW recently changed the lore around Mk. VI to be more common and not just a Sol system mark, the old arguments against every legion having access to Indomitus are much weaker.

 

(It gets a lot more opiniony from here on out)

Here's another thing worth considering, Mk. V Power Armour should not have existed.  But it came into existence sharing some similar facets to the Indomitus design despite being developed ad-hoc and independently.  Explicitly the helmet design which many factions converged on is based off of Terminator Armour (White Dwarf 129, Space Marine Armour by Rick Priestley).  Now this is from 1990 so the lore has changed since, but I don't think they've overwritten this part. 

 

Personally I believe that Indomitus was more widely available than Mk. VI Power Armour at the start of the Heresy, because of the development of the Mk. V helmet style & internal systems which otherwise makes little-to-no sense.  (Except for the World Eaters, see Sarum pattern.)

 

Legions who definitely had it at the start: Iron Hands

Legions who likely had it at the start: everyone (in some legions they would be more or less common than others)

Legions who definitely had it by the Scouring: Everyone! (Likely main mark in most factions)

 

So yes Indomitus is fluffy for all legions

 

PS They should also have access to power weapons, but GW is gonna do as GW does...

Edited April 8, 2023 by SlickSamos
Added headings

[Slips]

> Plays Imperial Fists

I mean, yeah especially if they are the same size as the TDA Praetor.

[Corswain]

Not for me. I know it was in existence but I enjoy the distinction in the hobby by keeping Indomitus to 40K. Feels less like I'm painting the exact same army, even if I frequently am.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I still have no idea for them. Well, more terminators are always welcomed but I still don't know how put them in an army of Sons of Horus.

Indomitus are not an awesome unit in my opinion but still have good points(Troop terminators without RoW, access to storm shields and power fists included, for example). Is something between Tartaros and Cataphractii

I think they are much better for zone mortalis than for regular battles. I want to try a unit of 6-8 strong, with combi bolters and a mix of power fists and chain fists, with a sargent with thunder hammer.

Edited April 8, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[Marshal Mittens]

46 minutes ago, AGRAMAR said:

I still have no idea for them. Well, more terminators are always welcomed but I still don't know how put them in an army of Sons of Horus.

Indomitus are not an awesome unit in my opinion but still have good points(Troop terminators without RoW, access to storm shields and power fists included, for example). Is something between Tartaros and Cataphractii

I think they are much better for zone mortalis than for regular battles. I want to try a unit of 6-8 strong, with combi bolters and a mix of power fists and chain fists, with a sargent with thunder hammer.

 

Maybe your Sons of Horus looted suits of it from Imperial Fists at Cthonia and Sol?

 

Without a dedicated 30k Librarian model in plastic, the Terminator Librarian is also tempting, and the force axe reminds me of the super classic Terminator Librarian. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Marshal Mittens

[bushman101]

Probably not, for a few different reasons:

 

I modeled my Heresy army (Blood Angels) for about mid-Heresy. So more Mk 3 and 4, a bit of 5 and very little 6. I don't see Indomitus really fitting in.

 

My play style doesn't make big use of Termis. If I didn't play ZM, I probably would have traded away the Termis I got from the BaC and AoD starters.

 

Indomitus is ....kinda boring. I prefer the look of the Cata and Tart termis.  Just a preference 

[Noserenda]

I planned to field a load in a second, terminator company for my blood angels, spurred on by the excellent chapter specific kits and space hulk but that kinda fell apart in the long dark and I doubt they will scale well with the new versions (or the other terminator kits) so unlikely to happen now!

 

That said I already made a 40k Archangels army and a meaty platoon of converted cataphracts for the alpha legion so I clearly love the chonky bois :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

The rules for indomitus are intensely good. I'd love any terminator that matches the scale of the mk6 (as the indomitus already do), but I'm really not a fan of having to scrape the aquila. Too bad the 3d files tended to get whacked and weren't really nuscale to start with.

 

@SlickSamos while ya, they should have access to power weapons (as you could do indomitus in 1st with them), the unit would be really too good. They already have 50 points of power fist baked in, so it'd be 125 for the unit and 20ppm. That can go 6x scoring in pride. I'd take 225 for 10 terminator bodies with spears in an instant, maybe sprinkle some hammers here and there; you can afford it.

 

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Marshal Mittens said:

 

Maybe your Sons of Horus looted suits of it from Imperial Fists at Cthonia and Sol?

 

Without a dedicated 30k Librarian model in plastic, the Terminator Librarian is also tempting, and the force axe reminds me of the super classic Terminator Librarian. 

 

Maaaayyyybbeee. The Warmaster always likes to be up to date! XD

 

Now, more seriously, the problem with the Indomitus is that we only have the troop. Not the option for characters (Terminator centurions upgraded to consuls, I mean), or the option of a Indomitus Squad Command... At least, for now.  A shame.

But terminator librarians and chaplains are very juicy.

In my case I like more the old model with staff.

Edited April 9, 2023 by AGRAMAR

[BadgersinHills]

I'm planning to use some for my White Scars at the Siege. Not very conventional but I think they'll look good in white.

[Hfran Morkai]

I've actually a box of the current Terminators, Wolf Guard Terminators and a set of the old FW SW upgrades. I was planning on spreading out the Wolf specific bits (less is definitely more) probably another box of standard and a box of Assault.

 

I'll probably stick with the ones currently out though given most of my stuff is B@C and BoP era.

[Brother Sutek]

As a decades long Deathwing player I am a fan of those mark terminators espnas I have over 100 of them. That being said I do prefer Catafracti but that isn't real world cost effective if I want to run a ton of terminators. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Brother Sutek

[MichaelCarmine]

Yeah, i'll possibly get two for my Iron Warriors and one for the Wolves (cause they know, how to handle "heavy").

 

To be fair, it took me a whole while to warm up to them, since they combine the two weaknesses of both the Cataphractii and Tartaros armor - 5+ Invul, slow.

But they are very point efficient, don't take up a precious elite slot and can even score in the right RoW.

 

Just hope, they don't tower to much over the Cataphractii or Tartaros, that would be a real bummer...

[Doghouse]

I think when you take into account the size of legions compared to our tabletop armies it would be extremely plausible to include them in late era games or at a stretch maybe even mid era armies.

 

The Rogue Trader era article that set the lore of the armour marks is pretty ancient now and set at a time when I don't think the Heresy was really intended to be anything beyond Adeptus Titanicus or Space Marine and even then was fading in coverage and support. 

 

It'd be nice if Forge World released a chest and shoulder pad upgrade kit though to save having to shave all the Imperialis and Crux Terminatus off.

 

I want to do Imperial Fists with them though for sure.

 

[Arkangilos]

I wish there was more lore on the differences between them.

 

Like what made them switch to the indomitus and when did the switch happen large scale? 

[Pearson73]

I'm contemplating picking some up to run either as they are, or as Gorgons, but I'll do a fair bit of conversion I guess (bonding studs, extra cabling, Tartaros combi-bolters, etc).

[Gorgoff]

12 hours ago, Marshal Mittens said:

As we all know, 40k is getting new Terminators. Current lore, as I understand it, is that mostly only the Imperial Fists imployes them in large numbers in Horus Heresy. Do any of you plan to employ them in your Horus Heresy Forces? 

My group has agreed on to ignore the whole indomitus entry in that PDF.

They don't look like a horus heresy unit and they twisted the fluff to make them the new standard terminator srmor just to sell their new product which is just to obvious. 

So no, probably not. 

Edit: And the new models are way out of proportion to not look silly beside regular astartes.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Gorgoff

[SlickSamos]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

They don't look like a horus heresy unit and they twisted the fluff to make them the new standard terminator srmor just to sell their new product which is just to obvious. 

Ferrus Manus and Tyberos 'Red Wake' would like a word . 

 

To me, the Red Wake's armour shows two things: it was likely in action at Gate 42 (which shows RG had it before the HH); and, the Nomad fleets did engage with the Horus Heresy (as otherwise the armour mods don't make much sense).  That said, I bet if Forge World was remaking Tyberos today they would base the model on either Cataphractii or Tartaros instead of making Indomitus look old.  

[Lord Marshal]

No, because I still think Cataprachtii looks cooler. 

[corvus.calvariam]

2 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

My group has agreed on to ignore the whole indomitus entry in that PDF.

They don't look like a horus heresy unit and they twisted the fluff to make them the new standard terminator srmor just to sell their new product which is just to obvious. 

So no, probably not. 

Edit: And the new models are way out of proportion to not look silly beside regular astartes.

 

 

The original art for Gabriel Santar in the CCG had him in something resembling Indomitus, so it was around and I think it influenced why FW put the association with Iron Hands and Indomitus in the later black books.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by corvus.calvariam

[Gorgoff]

12 minutes ago, corvus.calvariam said:

 

 

The original art for Gabriel Santar in the CCG had him in something resembling Indomitus, so it was around and I think it influenced why FW put the association with Iron Hands and Indomitus in the later black books.

 

When I look at this artwork I think 40k and not 30k though which is my whole point. Of course they were around.

Gorgons wear them as well but they look very distinct from their 40k relatives. 

Besides it doesn't solve the problem, that the new models are ridiculously oversized. 

They look good but they would stand out like Duplo models stand out next to Lego ones.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Gorgoff

[Brother Sutek]

I prefer Catafracti due to my playstyle and how they look. The Deathshroud officially being tartaros was annoying even though it's helped me in games. I just have a ton of Deathwing terminators from decades of Dark Angel 40k and they're even painted black as the proper Dark Angel colors. I can't even imagine how gigantic the new ones would look in my army. 

[sarabando]

Do I need any more than 50? :D yes. I was planning a BA army for the assault on the vengeful spirit of 17 indomni termies too. I may use the chaos ones in my NLs 

[WrathOfTheLion]

5 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

I wish there was more lore on the differences between them.

 

Like what made them switch to the indomitus and when did the switch happen large scale? 

Like with MK VI, any new production would likely go to the easier to manufacture design.

 

The track they're currently following where MK VI is more prevalent is a bit different than before, but makes way more sense, as in any historical long conflict, all weapons manufacturing is quickly streamlined to cheaper, easier to produce designs.