Do you plan to use Indomitus Terminators?

[Gorgoff]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:09 PM, Noserenda said:

Arguably with Indomnis coming in as troops for some reason the Heresy team has already said they should be more common than the other patterns of terminator armour.

I don't care what corporate GW wants. Same with MK6. It is just a palpable move to sell their new :cuss: to us. 

[4b4dd0n]

And next year with the release of the super duper MKVII armor kit GW says it was all the time around. Even on IstvaanIII there was some super secret Alpha Legion Marines testing this new super armor in the field. So now we can make complete MKVII armies and its all fluffy even on the Istvaan timeline...

Its so sad that Alan died so early. We would avoid so much stupid stuff...

People should more look upon the Black Books this is the stuff for the Heresy and not the fluff changes based on selling more new plastic kits.

[sarabando]

I was happy having them as just .a third.suit.option but they needed a reason to be either they need to be cheaper points wise.than tarty/cataphractii or they need their own special rules personally I would have gone for giving them deep strike as it fits their 40k use 

 

The whole retcon on heresy kit is a difficult one as sure for 20 years all we.had.were.mars.vehicles so any expansion was going raise.the question of why haven't we seen these before?

 

The mk6 suits.being.so common sucks they should have redone mk4 for that imo.

 

 

I hope we get an expansion book that readresses.these.units.in the future. 

[MegaVolt87]

17 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I don't care what corporate GW wants. Same with MK6. It is just a palpable move to sell their new to us. 

 

Agreed. It's hard to take the retcons seriously when they are only happening with the existence of new products. Pushback on mk VI and indomni termi's would have been minimal if the lore was unchanged. It's also the old mk III and IV that are sold out every re stock, while mk VI sits there. 

[Noserenda]

It's not retcons though, just pushing up the timeline to the mid-late heresy. It'd get boring if the minis just sat at the brink of Istvaan forever.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Absolutely gonna use them in my Blood Angels force. Whole theme is Siege of Terra so Indomitus terminators converted to be more heresy, no cruxes the odd mark 5 style helmet etc, I've also been trying to get my gubby mitts on some mark 4 dreadnoughts but they are rarer than hen's teeth.

 

There's not been any retcons so I don't give a crap about that either it was always implicitly stated that Mark 6 and Indomitus were in used in prototype along with all kinds of sub variants of armour since the first black books with only Ravenguard and Alpha Legion using them on masse. Gorgon terminators explicitly stated as being one of many Indomitus protoypes. Legions were huge and a strike force of anybody having these units on the field doesn't bother me one bit. The only variant of armour or vehicle not in some form of use before the heresy even was Mark 7. Sons of Horus Reavers are known for widespread use of sub variants, prototypes and multi variant mash ups. 

 

The plastic mark 6 is also RTB01 sub variant so technically it's not even the final mass produced mark 6 variant we see in the old Tactical box and that FW made with the plain guantlets and the mark 3's and 2's were seeing are also variants based on retro models. Mark 3 looking like it's own mark and both having a completly different undersuit. Big Galaxy lot's of stuff no need to get crusty it's not like the entire story of the heresy and 40k in general hasn't been retconned before anyway.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

My 'head-cannon'  is that much of heresy Indomitus armour is in fact jury rigid suits of either catiphactii or tartaros.

 

It's the mk5 of terminators. When better armour gets damaged they patch it up as best that can with what ever equipments and parts they have.

 

So catiphracrii loose some of their shield generators and ablative armour getting slightly quicker than the base model but less well protected.

Tartaros lose the advanced servos and get slower but they bolt on more plate to protect the user.

 

Indomitus ends up being the name given to the bastardised terminator plate

[Razorblade]

I think it's important to remember that before forgeworld und Black Library gave us a more rigid armor-timeline, there was a lot of artwork depicting all kinds of armour, including very weird variants and stuff that looks distinctly mk VII.

I also think that if there has to be a debate about GW doing poorly written Lore and Rules to sell "40k in 30k" it shouldn't start with "which armor when on whom" but the effing  Legio Custodes 

[Noserenda]

Thats the other way round though, Custodes were a 30k range ported into 40k :D 

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Razorblade said:

GW doing poorly written Lore and Rules to sell "40k in 30k" it shouldn't start with "which armor when on whom" but the effing  Legio Custodes 

This is something that happened out of necessity back in the early days of HH when there were very few HH specific model ranges. 

Oddly enough people seem to have soem kind of rose-tinted love affair with models that shouldn't really be part of the HH setting... 

[MichaelCarmine]

To be fair, i have nothing against the occasional "new suff", when its reasonable lorewise.

But when i see full armies of 40k models to be used in HH, to me it feels like playing a WW2 Tabletop against a Dude, who fields M1A2 Abrams as Shermans, Humvees as Jeeps, Leopard 2s as Panthers, Patriots as V1/V2s, Eurofighters as Messerschmitts and F22 Raptors as P51s, "because the models are cheaper to get/build and look better".

And when you bring your concerns for the damage to the narrative to bear, you are the "Gatekeeper" who doesn't allow other people the fun they deserve...

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

To be fair, i have nothing against the occasional "new suff", when its reasonable lorewise.

But when i see full armies of 40k models to be used in HH, to me it feels like playing a WW2 Tabletop against a Dude, who fields M1A2 Abrams as Shermans, Humvees as Jeeps, Leopard 2s as Panthers, Patriots as V1/V2s, Eurofighters as Messerschmitts and F22 Raptors as P51s, "because the models are cheaper to get/build and look better".

 

Precisely 

2 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

And when you bring your concerns for the damage to the narrative to bear, you are the "Gatekeeper" who doesn't allow other people the fun they deserve...

I haven't seen real gatekeeping in years but what I do see quite often is new players who (over-) react very fast when criticised on their model decisions. 

A lot of 40k players has started to dip their toes into HH and it shows.

Not only is the obnoxious "what is the best XY" minmax question way more frequently asked but morenoften than not those new HH players tend to be oblivious to the fact that other people may don't like it when someone is using proxies all the time or using a completely different scaled model. 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I really love the new terminators, though I will probably wait until there is a full kit so I can shave off cruxes, add studs, swap the stormbolters for a different combi bolter, and generally Heresy Them Up A Bit.
I think that's the main thing. I want to see people put some kind of effort into making things not 40k lookin. 

[Doghouse]

Would keeping the Imperialis on the chest be acceptable for Loyalists given that it was their campaign badge?

 

The interesting thing about the Crux Terminatus was the original reasoning behind it not being a Heresy thing comes from the Rogue Trader era but it wasn't all Crux Terminatus that contained a fragment of the Emperor's armour just the Captains and I think that is the origin of the justification they were not Heresy era. Regular Terminator Astartes could receive the Crux Argentum which was made of silver and encrusted with gems but again this was RT era. I'm shaving mine off though.

 

I'm painting mine as Inductii, to me it makes more sense that given the other terminator armours are superior that the inferior mass manufactured armour would go to the inferior mass manufactured soldiers first.

[Valkyrion]

Just because we know it is the 'Crux Terminatus' doesn't mean that Dorn or Guilliman or someone hasn't dedicated this symbol as a badge of honour to a particularly heroic squad - it could even be a symbol to mark out the first ever squad amongst the Legion to wear Indomitus suits.  It doesn't have to be the Crux Terminatus on your guys, it could be The Bone Cross of Inwit or the Obsidian Cross of Calth. 

Remember that the red helm associated with 40k sergeants came about as a result of 30k censure, so symbols are mutable. 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Oh yeah, I wouldnt tell anyone the crux has no place. I have definitely left it on some of the older models that have “terminator honours”.

To my eye and for my dudes, the huge one on Indomitus armor just screams modern 40k to me, and bare or studded pads immediately make me think Heresy.

[Darnok]

Would not the biggest issue with the new Terminators be... them being just too big? From what I can tell they are upscaled a bit, mostly in bulk. They might look out of scale with the rest of the HH range. I guess we have to wait for pictures of somebody actually putting them together.

[Doghouse]

15 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Would not the biggest issue with the new Terminators be... them being just too big? From what I can tell they are upscaled a bit, mostly in bulk. They might look out of scale with the rest of the HH range. I guess we have to wait for pictures of somebody actually putting them together.

 

Yeah they are huge.

 

 

They are actually what I would call proper truescale. I've converted Primaris into Mk IV to go with mine.

 

Edit: 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Doghouse

[Darnok]

Thanks for the video link, it has this nice shot:

 

 

This does not look right to me in context of 30K. Sure, it is a nice upscaling to fit in the Primaris range, but... yeah, not for me.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

They are actually what I would call proper truescale. I've converted Primaris into Mk IV to go with mine.

 

Fair point. If "true scale" is your thing, these should work well indeed.

[Bung]

1 hour ago, Doghouse said:

 

Yeah they are huge.

 

 

They are actually what I would call proper truescale. I've converted Primaris into Mk IV to go with mine.

 

Edit: 

 

 

Thats the problem for me with the new Kit.

They only fit with the Imperial Fist Tartaros Preator.

 

I probably build some Indomitus Bug i rather use the old Kit and 3d printed parts.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I wonder how they will look with the incoming MKIII re-scale.

[Noserenda]

Yeah the problem is the existing terminators are too small, no easy way to fix that ofc, these are in scale with mk6 and the new mk3 id expect. No accounting for characters as fw apparently does not believe in consistent scale for bosses lol 

The Imperialis is perfectly fitting for the Heresy era post Istvaan, be prepared for idiots to say its an aquilla ofc.

The Crux terminatus less so, but its barely different from the apparently (snort) common elites symbol of the era, cut down the skull and you are golden, but then adding skulls to existing symbols is about as 40k as you get... Either way trimming it off is fairly trivial :) 

[Bung]

9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah the problem is the existing terminators are too small, no easy way to fix that ofc, these are in scale with mk6 and the new mk3 id expect. No accounting for characters as fw apparently does not believe in consistent scale for bosses lol 

The Imperialis is perfectly fitting for the Heresy era post Istvaan, be prepared for idiots to say its an aquilla ofc.

The Crux terminatus less so, but its barely different from the apparently (snort) common elites symbol of the era, cut down the skull and you are golden, but then adding skulls to existing symbols is about as 40k as you get... Either way trimming it off is fairly trivial :) 

 

They dont even work with the new MK VI as more armour doesnt give you 50 cm more height.

[dickyelsdon]

2 hours ago, Bung said:

 

They dont even work with the new MK VI as more armour doesnt give you 50 cm more height.

 

Yeah there is some expectation from people Indomitus should be 'a head taller' than normal marines. There are differences in height even within new Mk VI tacticals, nevermind character models, so its hard to define an exact height. But in this case the Indomitus head is much taller, which looks too big to me. The feet show it as much as anything, size 16 clogs!

 

[Noserenda]

3 hours ago, Bung said:

 

They dont even work with the new MK VI as more armour doesnt give you 50 cm more height.

Yeah terminators are supposed to be a head taller (and much bulkier obv) so like, 30 cm? Though some of that is above the marines actual head. If you look at accurate comparisons that's about where their eyeline has shifted.