BA and Tenth Edition - Facts Discussion

[Paladin777]

This all being said, I think that TLLC terminators have a solid place when compared to TH/SS terminators. They not only have 6 attacks each at S6 on the charge, but they also don't need OoM to reroll wounds, making them a good unit to dedicate to deleting smaller, but still troublesome units while also being a threat your opponent can't ignore.
 

this assumes a reasonable price point.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Paladin777

[Jolemai]

36 minutes ago, Metzombie said:

The same as CSM an most likely all other Space Marines.

 

Battle Sisters' boltgun is Rapid Fire 1, storm bolter is Rapid Fire 2, hence my surprise. I missed it being the same on the Legionaires datasheet.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Jolemai

[Blindhamster]

they built bolter discipline into bolters for marines basically. its a good change and a good indication of what to expect for stuff like tactical marines.

 

It's definitely interesting that DC intercessors do not get the heavy or assault rules on their bolt rifles, means DC intercessors are slower than normal ones (cant advance and still shoot) and less accurate if they stand still.

its also interesting we didnt see how their options work.

 

Also, Seth seemed a bit phoned in, no interesting rules or anything

Edited June 1, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

overall,  i'd say our detachment rule is actually worse than simply using the gladius detachment rules from a pure power perspective.

 

Not quite sure yet. I think you would really need to build around Red Thirst to get the value out of it. Lots of fast squads hurtling forward to maximise the charge bonus. Terminators with a Captain to reroll charges out of Deep Strike. Some of our other enhancements may also give bonuses to charging.

[Karhedron]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:12 PM, Karhedron said:

The Terminator Captain gets a Relic Shield. It is possible that units without an Invuln still get access to the classic 4++ Stormshield.

 

On the other hand, Tau Shield Drones also provide +1W in 10th so maybe this is the way?

 

Looking at the DA entry, it does look like Storm Shields are now +1W. 4 Wound Terminators look pretty tasty.

 

On the other hand, Deathwatch get Astartes Shields which still provide a 4++. Maybe these will be an option for units that do not get a native Invulnerable save. I am hoping so, otherwise units like BGVs will be facing a serious downgrade.

[Blindhamster]

4 wound BGV will be much the same as 3 wound I guess, will be interesting to see how they pan out, it’s possible they retain 4++ and 2+ representing their artificer quality armour and their iron halo

[Nephaston]

Bolt rifles behaving like regular bolters in death company hands makes sense since they all go "I'm Sanguinius and I'm ball-bustingly mad. What's a bolt rifle? Where is Horus?"

[Goranged]

So, I’m reading correctly that DC intercessors re roll hits (shooting and melee) and have overwatch (with re roll? and HI for free)?

Edited June 2, 2023 by Goranged

[Goranged]

Also, Heroic Intervention will not give them "fight first" as stated in page 29th but that doesn't exclude Red Thirst +1S and +1A:
 

Heroic Intervention (2CP):

"WHEN: Your opponent's Charge phase, just after an enemy unit ends a Charge move. TARGET: One unit from your army that is within 6" of that enemy unit and would be eligible to declare a charge against that enemy unit if it were your Charge phase. EFFECT: Your unit now declares a charge that targets only that enemy unit, and you resolve that charge as if it were your Charge phase. RESTRICTIONS: You can only select a VEHICLE unit from your army if it is a WALKER. Note that even if this charge is successful, your unit does not receive any Charge bonus this turn [pg 29)."

 

CHARGE BONUS Many warriors thunder headlong into combat, using the impetus of their charge to bring swift death to their foes. Each time a unit makes a Charge move, until the end of the turn, that unit has the Fights First ability (pg 32).

[Helias_Tancred]

8 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

4 wound BGV will be much the same as 3 wound I guess, will be interesting to see how they pan out, it’s possible they retain 4++ and 2+ representing their artificer quality armour and their iron halo

 

But they were never previously given anything special for their "iron halo", I think it was for visual effect only and personally I don't like BGV having those iron halos unless they work as iron halos. Thats my stance on any model with an iron halo. I like for them to remain special. Sorry to sorta go off on a tangent.

 

 

[The Unseen]

Well, with the slow death of a bunch of my BA specific vehicles/dreads, I think they will be taking a permanent Hiatus to HH.

[Jolemai]

5 hours ago, The Unseen said:

Well, with the slow death of a bunch of my BA specific vehicles/dreads, I think they will be taking a permanent Hiatus to HH.

 

One of the reasons I play BA in HH tbh...

[Paladin777]

I've had my eye on a deredeo for some time and now I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger. It still sucks hardcore though. 
 

I heard that GW posted on FB that relic terminators are also going to legends. My Tartaros all have loadouts that aren't valid in a regular terminator squad either. Lightning claws paired with storm bolters, a plasma blaster, and a RAC. 
 

This is probably one of the most heinous moves GW has done in a while...

 

 

[Blindhamster]

if anything, I think it'll make people embrace legends more, which may be part of why they're doing it.

And that would be a good thing IMO.

[Paladin777]

How would that really change anything?

[Blindhamster]

people would stop complaining?

The units have rules, if legends gets embraced more, the people saying they cant use legends because of x or y house rule would in theory stop having that issue.

 

the units not being available for tournaments isn't a huge deal as the vast majority haven't really been top tier or even good tournament options anyway. If they can be used in other situations still it's not really a problem at all.

 

The trouble is that currently legends has a frankly undeserved stigma, the vast majority of legends stuff worked fine in 9th, and I'm sure that'll be the case of legends in 10th too.

[Jolemai]

Download the New Warhammer 40,000 Rules for Free Right Here - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

 

added

[Helias_Tancred]

8 hours ago, Jolemai said:

 

One of the reasons I play BA in HH tbh...

 

Being pragmatic is its own reward!

 

lol.

 

[Jolemai]

Leviathan Datasheets

Added.

[Wugo_Heaving]

Really hoping you can mix and match weapons on the DC Intercessors as you'd really have to use a 10-man squad with 5 bolters, 5 C.swords, 1 Power weapon, plasma pistol and Grenade launcher/s to get the absolute most out of their special rules. Still, at least a 5-man Csword squad seems better now. Love how the two Death Company rules define them as a supporting tactical role rather than just been taken as damage dealers. Adds a touch of variety to BA.

 

What are people thinking Sanguinary Guard will be like? I think the Lance rule (+1 to the Wound roll) would make perfect sense to set them apart. Merging all their weapons into one profile with strike/sweep modes might be likely? OC 2 would be a welcome change to reflect their elite stature but maybe that's too much to ask.

 

I do hope there's some weird and interesting psyker/anti psyker shenanigans going on between all the possible character rules and enhancements since BA are apparently quite potent pyskers, and since I'm sure I read that the old dreadnoughts are being discontinued/legended but that the BA dreads kit is being kept I I really hope they set Mephiston and the Librarian Dread apart into two distinct roles... somehow.

 

As for the actual models, I'm sure I've read rumours of a chaplain and "something with cherubs". Most likely the Sanguinor? If that's true, then I'll guess the Chaplain's pose will be based on the 2nd Edition Angels of Death cover and he'll have a fancy bolter and crozius (but no jump pack) and hopefully the Sangunior won't be a primarch sized Sanguinius surrogate, but just a fancy, upscaled version of what he is now, with an actual broadsword and a retinue of spooky floating babies.

 

Beyond that I don't think there will be any new kits. Maybe when 11th is on the horizon we'll get an updated Astorath or Lemartes (or Corbulo... on a bike?!) since that fits with how things went with Psychic Awakening and Arks of Omen, but I'd love it if they could squeeze in some upscaled Sanguinary Guard with some spears/halberds in there, and port regular SG over to Horus Heresy.

 

 

[Karhedron]

My guess is Sanguinary Guard will get Relic Weapons or Power Fists for melee and OC, in line with other Elites (I can't see them having a high OC than Terminators). I am guessing we will see our Psykers get Quickening, Wings and possibly Shield of Sanguinius as powers.

 

I haven't heard any rumours of new models but I am keeping my fingers crossed. I seem to recall GW promising every faction would get at least 1 new model but I could be mistaken.

[BluejayJunior]

I would suggest tempering some of those expectations for Sanguinary Guard. [Lance] is a weapon ability, not a unit ability. Probably for things like Attilan Roughriders and other "cavalry" type units with actual lances. I'd be surprised if Encarmine Weapons are Lances. They'll be consolidated, but no way they'll have strike and sweep options. They aren't special enough for that. Encarmine Weapons will just be like Force Weapons like they have been in the past. And just an OC of 1. Higher OC is going to be for troops/battleline units, not elites.

I am betting on getting a new Primaris Sanguinary Guard kit, though. The new Dante is going to need some equally updated bodyguards. 

[Arkangilos]

7 hours ago, BluejayJunior said:

I would suggest tempering some of those expectations for Sanguinary Guard. [Lance] is a weapon ability, not a unit ability. Probably for things like Attilan Roughriders and other "cavalry" type units with actual lances. I'd be surprised if Encarmine Weapons are Lances. They'll be consolidated, but no way they'll have strike and sweep options. They aren't special enough for that. Encarmine Weapons will just be like Force Weapons like they have been in the past. And just an OC of 1. Higher OC is going to be for troops/battleline units, not elites.

I am betting on getting a new Primaris Sanguinary Guard kit, though. The new Dante is going to need some equally updated bodyguards. 

Agreed, but I think it will be a year away, at minimum based on when our codex will release.

[Wugo_Heaving]

16 hours ago, BluejayJunior said:

 [Lance] is a weapon ability, not a unit ability.  

 

I know.  "Lance" is also a verb. It's a description of a rule, not just an explicit description of the weapon itself. I'm guessing their weapons will have it innately, or an ability will activate it. "When this unit makes a Charge, any melee weapons have the Lance keyword" for example. Or perhaps they will have "anti-vehicle/monster"? Death Company get to re-roll all Hits, maybe SG will re-roll all Wounds? SG will need something strong to set them apart.

 

 

[Jolemai]

Lance is described on page 25 of the free PDF. Our Index is allegedly out on the 12th June, so we'll know then.