HH 2.0 The Muster of Worlds: Imperialis Militia Tactica

[Lord Marshal]

The army list is finally here, with new units and Providences to boot. 

 

Time to get started again.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Galron]

Looks like I can use my guard again. Wont start figuring out the details until it hits battlescribe. Still doesnt allow a full infantry army that I can tell :(

[Gorgoff]

27 minutes ago, Galron said:

Looks like I can use my guard again. Wont start figuring out the details until it hits battlescribe. Still doesnt allow a full infantry army that I can tell :(

Of course it allows you to do that.

[Loquille]

Strength in Numbers seems good in getting bodies on the board so you can fill the rest of the troops with Grenadiers or jet packing  recons 

 

Allowing up to three units comprised of the special rule to be selected to fill the slot instead of just the one.  Could field 20-60 bodies from the infantry squad entry, or anywhere from 20-150 from the Levy in a single slot. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Loquille

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Loquille said:

Strength in Numbers seems good in getting bodies on the board so you can fill the rest of the troops with Grenadiers or jet packing  recons 

 

Allowing up to three units comprised of the special rule to be selected to fill the slot instead of just the one.  Could field 20-60 bodies from the infantry squad entry, or anywhere from 20-150 from the Levy in a single slot. 

Militia players all over the place were talking about this rule and how nice that would be and GW listened obviously. Very cool for a change. I think the list is pretty solid. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd ask what those units are actually...supposed to do.

 

Recons with jet packs replace their weapons with double pistols. Do they just melta bomb tanks from the seargent? Grenadiers are more expensive, worse, solar auxilia that can take two special units.

 

The only troop unit that looks functional (meriting filling out the slots) is the fire support with lascannons; 350 for 10 lascannons is respectable. But you still need to take two seperate units of troops to fill out the compulsory slots.

[Loquille]

For some reason I was thinking the fire support was elite, but that's the field guns. Like you said they're pretty much the best option out of them. Jump recons I have no idea on at the moment, they seem a nice nod to some older models, being support and having a single bomb really does limit them. 

 

Grenadiers, while worse than Solar could be viable depending on Provenances. Though you're pretty much just recreating weaker Veletaris, with Legacy of the Great Crusade, (+1BS) and Armouries of Old Night for access to chargers, but still have the support rule. 

 

 

[MichaelCarmine]

28 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I'd ask what those units are actually...supposed to do.

 

Recons with jet packs replace their weapons with double pistols. Do they just melta bomb tanks from the seargent? Grenadiers are more expensive, worse, solar auxilia that can take two special units.

 

The only troop unit that looks functional (meriting filling out the slots) is the fire support with lascannons; 350 for 10 lascannons is respectable. But you still need to take two seperate units of troops to fill out the compulsory slots.

Yeah, i do agree on the Jump-pack recons, don't see what they are supposed to do, besides being fanservice to old GW art...

Edit: If atleast, they were scoring, i could see them as a cheap(ish), fast(ish) late game objective grabber...

 

The Grenadiers got a litzle boned by losing BS4, and not getting a dedicated transport option outside of a provenance. 

I would've liked for them to be able to take am Arvus as a dedicated transport. 40pts for deep strike is cool, but 1 per FA Slot where they have to compete with thunderbolts, sentinels and now Cavalry, justn to name the most prominent? Nah!

 

I've yet to find Provenances, that match the Krieg-Style.

So far i've found Warrior Elite and Industrial Stronghold fitting, but i kinda like the combination of Cyber Augmetics and Armory of Old Night for a 6+ "Stahlhelm" FnP save combined with Slow and Purposefull for the Better "heavy" lasguns.

Also makes for a bit worse but not to shabby "velataris storm" Grenadiers.

But - no reactions allowed...

 

But no matter how good the Cavalry will be, i must have atleast one big unit of them!!! :D 

Edited April 18, 2023 by MichaelCarmine

[Squark]

33 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I'd ask what those units are actually...supposed to do.

 

Recons with jet packs replace their weapons with double pistols. Do they just melta bomb tanks from the seargent? Grenadiers are more expensive, worse, solar auxilia that can take two special units.

 

The only troop unit that looks functional (meriting filling out the slots) is the fire support with lascannons; 350 for 10 lascannons is respectable. But you still need to take two seperate units of troops to fill out the compulsory slots.

Jet pack recons exist to sell you Orlock wreckers. I just wish those wreckers could also use better pistols like the Necromunda ones can.

 

I don't think fire support with lascannons are good- 10 Heavy Support Marines carrying those same lascannons are 275 points. Against anything that isn't AP3 or better but not instant death to the support squad, the marines are more surviable. The marines also have better morale and accuracy, and they take up less real estate so are better able to get cover against anything that can penetrate their armor.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Squark

[corvus.calvariam]

Looks like the Outrider Sergeants gonna be walking, FW forgot to give him the Cavalry unit type. I also think it's pretty funny, if ineffectual considering the cost and WS3, that Militia Lances can get up to S10 with the right warlord trait and Provenances.

 

Edit: Never mind on the Sergeant, thankfully it looks like the mount wargear gives him Cavalry. Still its probably an oversight it wasn't included in the entry directly.

Edited April 18, 2023 by corvus.calvariam

[MichaelCarmine]

11 minutes ago, corvus.calvariam said:

Looks like the Outrider Sergeants gonna be walking, FW forgot to give him the Cavalry unit type. I also think it's pretty funny, if ineffectual considering the cost and WS3, that Militia Lances can get up to S10 with the right warlord trait and Provenances.

 

Edit: Never mind on the Sergeant, thankfully it looks like the mount wargear gives him Cavalry. Still its probably an oversight it wasn't included in the entry directly.

Militia Lances have a fix strength of 7, they cannot be affected by any Str. bonuses, whatsoever.

[corvus.calvariam]

21 minutes ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Militia Lances have a fix strength of 7, they cannot be affected by any Str. bonuses, whatsoever.

 

So it is, there goes that idea.

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 minutes ago, Squark said:

 

 

I don't think fire support with lascannons are good- 10 Heavy Support Marines carrying those same lascannons are 275 and are space marines. Against anything that isn't AP3 or better but not instant death to the support squad, the marines are more surviable. The marines also have better morale and accuracy, and they take up less real estate so are better able to get cover against anything that can penetrate their armor.

 

Yea, all that is true.

 

But that's a heavy support slot in a marine list instead of a troop in the militia. I wouldnt take an allied detachment of 10 las FSS over an allied detachment of 10 las HSS. But I'd take an allied detachment of 30 las FSS over an allied detachment of 10 las HSS. You can get a ton, at still a good price (because both are rather criminally undercosted), and not take up any valuable slot where you can take more decent stuff.

 

You can do a militia list with a boatload of STR 9 ap2; 40 las FSS for 1400, compulsory units for 260 and then...fill the rest up with rapiers or vanquishers. You can get 6 seperate vanqs or 13 laser destroyer rapiers in 2500. That's good. 

[MichaelCarmine]

8 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Yea, all that is true.

 

But that's a heavy support slot in a marine list instead of a troop in the militia. I wouldnt take an allied detachment of 10 las FSS over an allied detachment of 10 las HSS. But I'd take an allied detachment of 30 las FSS over an allied detachment of 10 las HSS. You can get a ton, at still a good price (because both are rather criminally undercosted), and not take up any valuable slot where you can take more decent stuff.

 

You can do a militia list with a boatload of STR 9 ap2; 40 las FSS for 1400, compulsory units for 260 and then...fill the rest up with rapiers or vanquishers. You can get 6 seperate vanqs or 13 laser destroyer rapiers in 2500. That's good. 

I also like the idea of 10 Vanquishers for 1250pts - 20 basically synchronised S9 AP2 Brutal(2) shots sound like a fun counter to a FotA List xD

[No Foes Remain]

Overall I quite like all the options there, what hurts is the cutting apart of some of the pronvances but still having the limit at 2 whereas 3 would have countered the split appart ones and the additional ones.

[Brofist]

Hey at least they got the cost of an arvus ligther right

 

Still loling hard that the gorgon still isn't an assault transport. Guess we gotta wait for another edition!

[oldhat]

Purely to channel some RT Era vibes, I am thinking Warrior Elite + Survivors of the Dark Age, so I can put some Grenadiers into Rhinos and Land Raiders.

 

Probably won't work all that hot on the table, but the idea of painting some RT camo on the Marine vehicles (and some Sentinels maybe) is hard to resist. Shame Grenadiers just seem terrible. Especially since they are BS3. That is rough.

 

The most difficult part will be creating RT era carapace armor models out of the current range of minis.

[Slips]

Big Weakness Im seeing is that if squads fail morale at one model under half or less, theyre pretty much gone.

 

There is also the added extra hilarity of One Model (from any army including Militia itself) charging a squad of, say, 24 levies (or 9 normal militia) who have failed morale will automatically just erase them; not to mention the inability to regroup in that circumstance.

Worse yet, TWO Models (that are part of separate units; for example an AL saboteur and 1 lone surviving tactical marine) that both charge the same squad can possibly instantly cause the militia squads to fail morale, fall back and get swept before initiative 10 has happened. Now, this does have its upsides and downsides, to be fair, but its still hilarious that 2 models could potentially delete 50 levies instantly. The advantage is 50 Levies cost 100 pts so its not like its a BIG loss but, it is a giant unit footprint that poofs into thin air.

 

The mental image is, however, VERY lore accurate for SoS, Marines, Custodes and Mechanicum bots.

 

I would be interested in seeing what a Curze Bomb NL List would do to Militia since they have, on average, LD6 with some units having 7.

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Slips said:

I would be interested in seeing what a Curze Bomb NL List would do to Militia since they have, on average, LD6 with some units having 7

 

It already dismantles marine lists. And you don't even need curze; you deepstrike raptors or contekar in a conga at night and you're pinning against ld 4 or 5, against an army that has like no interceptor (especially with Tyrant), and little night mitigation. Flame rapiers also really hammer all the infantry, as do snipers when they start adding discipline masters in (or don't hide the commander with Tyrant in a transport).

 

 

[Brofist]

Ok then, let's get down to business. Which one of you brave soldiers is going to undertake the 900 levy list?

[Nagashsnee]

10 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I'd ask what those units are actually...supposed to do.

So glad you asked. Now i gave the lists 2 quick reads, had 1 hastily put together game so my knowledge of the new rules is still loading but.

 

Infantry rocks, you ask what they are suppose to do? NOTHING. That's the brilliant part, they don't need to DO anything. But die, slowly.  I used alchem jackers and discipline masters to place 6x 50 man blobs on the board.  ld 8 with a re roll ( oh no i might lose some models),  No negatives in combat and pinned instead of fall back if i fail while over 50% by shooting.  2x 20 man grenadier squads to hunk down on objectives with 4+ and maybe kill something with their 2x plasma...maybe. 2x caliope mortarts, str 5, large blast pinning, shell shock, barrage and 85 points for 2? 2x2 of them please, chuck in a unit of 3 rapier thudd guns for the same but more dmg less pinning thanks to shred. Now we are cooking. 2x 6 lance cavalry, mv 15 ap3 good str good I? And a unit of 5 ogryns with some basic upgrades? I smell pushers ( who will also die but might kill something first). A single thunderbolt because its cheap and puts out decent anti AA and anti tank.  2X Vanquisher russ because again 125 points is CHEAP, and the coaxial vanquisher cannon is pretty reliable anti tank/dread with brutal 2.  Cheapest hq money can buy and you got yourselves a 2k list, Now this was made in haste and i might not remember it 100% but thats not the point.

 

The point was at 2k the infantry was king. We rolled multiple objectives and frankly the all around Sons of horus list i faced could not kill things fast enough. The sheer mindF the marine player had when i put down 300 minis and told him 1) its just 2 troops slots and 2) its not that many points is initself a valuable tool. My turn 1 every single baragge weapon in the list opened up on the now classic marine heavy weapons squad, killed most and pinned the rest. The 7 large blasts ( that started dying to deepstrikes, etc but i did finish the game with 2 caliopes still alive and blasting away) put out WOUNDS.   The thunderbolt and vanquishers put out dmg that their points might not indicate. 

 

In my mind the moment i read the list the infantry is there to exist, nothing more, to move up, to choke the board, the enemy, the objct and both our sanities (deploying, moving and putting them away was not so great...but worth it). Honestly next time i am going to drop the grenadiers and swap them out with the medium infantry squad that can now also take 1 special ( yay) as the 4+ was not worth it and they will make better babysiters from home obj/artillery.   Now the game ended turn 4 in a draw ( we ran out of time on a work night) but my victory % was as high as my casualty pile.  The elite marine infantry wasnt really any good, the termies did nothing that normal despoilers would not do other then not be afraid of the blasts (2+ FTW). 

 

I had taken alchem jackers and the +1 T provenance but i am not 100% sold on them, and need to read the rules better ( i was unsure if the cav/ogryns got +1t). 

 

So back to the question, they are meant to be cheap and overwhelming.  Putting down 300-600 minis that do not give kill points ( in the case of the 2 pts infa) or are not total trash ( in the case of the 'better version) and can be made decently hard LD wise sends a message, and it does not stop the list from ALSO packing other things.  If you play first and push up the board with cav ogryns tanks and infantry a significant % of marine lists with STRUGGLE to ever push up the board as you drown him in bodies and artillery/tanks/planes. 

 

This is not to say its auto win, BA mass assault, world eaters, night lords ( tho maybe not with the right providence) can totally steamroll you. But every list has nemesis builds.  This army list has REALLY pumped me up for HH 2d and between me and a very close mate we have over 15 years of IG armies/collections to use. While i max out at 350 lasguns my mate can viably put down 700 painted lasguns minis ( from varius regiments) plus everything else needed to be GW tournie legal, and honestly while he will 100% not win the tournie he will ROCK the local meta to its core. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[No Foes Remain]

8 hours ago, Slips said:

Big Weakness Im seeing is that if squads fail morale at one model under half or less, theyre pretty much gone.

 

There is also the added extra hilarity of One Model (from any army including Militia itself) charging a squad of, say, 24 levies (or 9 normal militia) who have failed morale will automatically just erase them; not to mention the inability to regroup in that circumstance.

Worse yet, TWO Models (that are part of separate units; for example an AL saboteur and 1 lone surviving tactical marine) that both charge the same squad can possibly instantly cause the militia squads to fail morale, fall back and get swept before initiative 10 has happened. Now, this does have its upsides and downsides, to be fair, but its still hilarious that 2 models could potentially delete 50 levies instantly. The advantage is 50 Levies cost 100 pts so its not like its a BIG loss but, it is a giant unit footprint that poofs into thin air.

 

The mental image is, however, VERY lore accurate for SoS, Marines, Custodes and Mechanicum bots.

 

I would be interested in seeing what a Curze Bomb NL List would do to Militia since they have, on average, LD6 with some units having 7.

Yeah, that's going to be pretty rough for any infantry. I wish that either Warrior Elite or Legacy of the Great Crusade would get rid of that sub-type for the Command Cadres and Grenadier to sort of show how 'elite' those guys are in comparison to the rest of the list (even if they are just up to the basic Imperial Army standards).

[MichaelCarmine]

Have to say -  my Brain says "don't be so dumb, they drop like flies", but my heart says "Build that 20 man Volkite Culverin Militia Command Cadre"...

[Cadmus Tyro]

3 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

Have to say -  my Brain says "don't be so dumb, they drop like flies", but my heart says "Build that 20 man Volkite Culverin Militia Command Cadre"...

 
Trying to work out if you can actually do this. By my reading it suggests only Heavy stubbers can be upgraded to culverins, and the command is limited to one per unit? 

[MichaelCarmine]

1 minute ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

 
Trying to work out if you can actually do this. By my reading it suggests only Heavy stubbers can be upgraded to culverins, and the command is limited to one per unit? 

Nooooooooooooooo, those Bastards!

You're right, i immediately went to the old loadout, where every Bodyguard could have one... SadFace... What do i do now with my full squad of MG42 Bodyguards *cryingnoises*