HH 2.0 The Muster of Worlds: Imperialis Militia Tactica

[Brother Sutek]

My one IG dream is that we get a return of Valkyries, Vendetta and Vulture.  I haven't read the militia rules yet but I'm excited to flood the board once more with bullet catchers. While I don't quite have 700 I'm moderately close between my Cadian, Death Korps 3rd party Solar Auxilia. Are any of the tanks, besides the Vanquisher,  looking viable? Do they get access to rapier?

[Dezron]

Huh, Sentinels have Bulky (5), which means that Cargo-8 can transport 4 of them.

 

Mobile chicken coop strategy anyone?

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Dezron

[Nagashsnee]

10 minutes ago, Brother Sutek said:

Are any of the tanks, besides the Vanquisher,  looking viable? Do they get access to rapier?

While it breaks my heart to say it....not really. Like you got some that are okish like the plasma russ.  But simply put the NUKING of ap values + making large blasts more rare has done it in for most tanks. They die too easy, get knocked around too much doubly so in militia where glance=pen  and simply lack the guns to make a dent before they go. 

 

With 3+ being the norm and FNP being pretty widely in use you are looking at not much viability for dmg. Even the plasma russ is simply okish. Best case you get 5 marines under the blast, lets say you wound all 5 AND rend 3 of them. 66% the 2 non rends walk, if fnp is a factor one of the other three walk as well. Now this is best case, they have clamped up and you roll a perfect hit. If they are elite marines or have cover you are going down to 1-2 kills. 

 

The baneblade cannon the main gun on the main superheavy tank is ap4 rending 6+...  Unfortunately they have gone too far in many cases. Now the milita tanks are cheap, but even a 120 point russ is doing what all game? Shooting 1 small blast that MIGHT kill 1 marine? Why not put 3 rapiers for the same cost?  Why not put pretty much anything else?

 

The Vanquisher reigns supreme because it actually does the same dmg vs infanty vs most other tanks of the same cost, but with ap2 and brutal 2 it can target other thins ( monsters+dreads) PLUS rocks vs tanks.   Its not just that the vanquisher is good, its that everything else is also terrible. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

So glad you asked. Now i gave the lists 2 quick reads, had 1 hastily put together game so my knowledge of the new rules is still loading but.

 

Infantry rocks, you ask what they are suppose to do? NOTHING. That's the brilliant part, they don't need to DO anything. But die, slowly.  I used alchem jackers and discipline masters to place 6x 50 man blobs on the board.  ld 8 with a re roll ( oh no i might lose some models),  No negatives in combat and pinned instead of fall back if i fail while over 50% by shooting.  2x 20 man grenadier squads to hunk down on objectives with 4+ and maybe kill something with their 2x plasma...maybe. 2x caliope mortarts, str 5, large blast pinning, shell shock, barrage and 85 points for 2? 2x2 of them please, chuck in a unit of 3 rapier thudd guns for the same but more dmg less pinning thanks to shred. Now we are cooking. 2x 6 lance cavalry, mv 15 ap3 good str good I? And a unit of 5 ogryns with some basic upgrades? I smell pushers ( who will also die but might kill something first). A single thunderbolt because its cheap and puts out decent anti AA and anti tank.  2X Vanquisher russ because again 125 points is CHEAP, and the coaxial vanquisher cannon is pretty reliable anti tank/dread with brutal 2.  Cheapest hq money can buy and you got yourselves a 2k list, Now this was made in haste and i might not remember it 100% but thats not the point.

 

The point was at 2k the infantry was king. We rolled multiple objectives and frankly the all around Sons of horus list i faced could not kill things fast enough. The sheer mindF the marine player had when i put down 300 minis and told him 1) its just 2 troops slots and 2) its not that many points is initself a valuable tool. My turn 1 every single baragge weapon in the list opened up on the now classic marine heavy weapons squad, killed most and pinned the rest. The 7 large blasts ( that started dying to deepstrikes, etc but i did finish the game with 2 caliopes still alive and blasting away) put out WOUNDS.   The thunderbolt and vanquishers put out dmg that their points might not indicate. 

 

In my mind the moment i read the list the infantry is there to exist, nothing more, to move up, to choke the board, the enemy, the objct and both our sanities (deploying, moving and putting them away was not so great...but worth it). Honestly next time i am going to drop the grenadiers and swap them out with the medium infantry squad that can now also take 1 special ( yay) as the 4+ was not worth it and they will make better babysiters from home obj/artillery.   Now the game ended turn 4 in a draw ( we ran out of time on a work night) but my victory % was as high as my casualty pile.  The elite marine infantry wasnt really any good, the termies did nothing that normal despoilers would not do other then not be afraid of the blasts (2+ FTW). 

 

I had taken alchem jackers and the +1 T provenance but i am not 100% sold on them, and need to read the rules better ( i was unsure if the cav/ogryns got +1t). 

 

So back to the question, they are meant to be cheap and overwhelming.  Putting down 300-600 minis that do not give kill points ( in the case of the 2 pts infa) or are not total trash ( in the case of the 'better version) and can be made decently hard LD wise sends a message, and it does not stop the list from ALSO packing other things.  If you play first and push up the board with cav ogryns tanks and infantry a significant % of marine lists with STRUGGLE to ever push up the board as you drown him in bodies and artillery/tanks/planes. 

 

This is not to say its auto win, BA mass assault, world eaters, night lords ( tho maybe not with the right providence) can totally steamroll you. But every list has nemesis builds.  This army list has REALLY pumped me up for HH 2d and between me and a very close mate we have over 15 years of IG armies/collections to use. While i max out at 350 lasguns my mate can viably put down 700 painted lasguns minis ( from varius regiments) plus everything else needed to be GW tournie legal, and honestly while he will 100% not win the tournie he will ROCK the local meta to its core. 

 

I guess it really comes down to local lists. I see a lot of snipers, a lot of quad launchers, and a lot of assault armies. 

 

In my mind, the discipline masters, Tyrant trait, and alchem all let the army function in its mass of bodies capacity. They'd need those things even without the fallback under half strength=dead, or the multi charge=ld test; their ld values, lack of night mitigation, and killability means theyd be taking (and failing) tests every turn.

 

But my original question was actually meant more to ask "why take those units after benefiting from strength in numbers?". You don't really need it unless you're spamming support options and want more pure chaf, otherwise you can still get 120 scoring bodies, or 300 levies.

 

Regardless, I do know that traditional lascannon spam from Marines doesn't do too much against the mass of bodies, and has really bad efficiency against Russ spam, so a lot of otherwise strong lists might get caught flat footed.

[spafe]

I've been making some lists for a game in a week or so's time, and the only thing thats really bugging me is the single HQ slot in the ally detachment means you cant get a force commander (to unlock the options for customisation), and the enforcers to keep the troops in line. I really wish the enforcers had been an elite option like the medicae. 

 

 

[Galron]

I am playing with numbers for lack of anything better to do. Just trying to do all infantry using models I have on hand mostly with my Praetorian guard with tempestus just to fill numbers + I need to pick up a bunch of field guns that I needed to do anyway. All infantry is indeed possible to counter my earlier statement.

Force Commander with an Iron Halo

4 Discipline masters(point fillers)

Command Squad in carapace with plasma and melta bombs

9 Squads of infantry(three troop slots)

2 20 man grenadiers (I should have enough basic hotshot lasguns)-Might remodel my dusty Elysians to be Grenadiers since they are currently stripped anyway.

10 Fire Support teams with Lascannons(I have the models, I only have 6 autocannons or 9 mortars or 6 heavy bolters and I need the points) This will be an ugly unit to set up and will take longer to set up than it will likely last.

2 Field guns with heavy lascannons

2 Field Guns with heavy lascannons

2 Field Guns with Caliope mortars

2 Sentinels with lascannons

2 sentinels with Multi-meltas! (yes I am excited that my Elysian sentinels are usable)

2 Sentinels with lascannons

Heavy Ordinance Battery with medusas

Single Leman Russ with executioner cannon(I just had to fill points, I might print up some more Ordinance Batteries or try out some ogryns that I dont have)

 

So 225 infantry(not counting HQ ICs) 14 lascannons, 4 heavy lascannons, 3 medusas.

I would like a recon sniper squad but I am out of troop slots. 

I can also drop the Leman Russ, which is admittingly totally out of place, and add bayonets to all the basic infantry squads and grenadiers.

 

Am I correct that there are only 6 troop slots on the force org chart? Going off memory here.

I am tempted to do Warrior elite for the leadership boost. Not sure which other trait would be more beneficial. Maybe Kinfolk Helots for the toughness boost or the one that grants Night Vision on 2-6. Marcher Lord for warlord trait for the immunity to fear, not that I have a bunch of Night Lords in my area besides me.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Galron

[spafe]

dont grenadiers cap out at 20? start at 10, can add 10 more?

[Galron]

Yeah, was thinking 2 x20 and typed 40 lol.

 

Came up with a neat Night Lords list using the Guard/Militia as allies. 

Sevatar deep striking terminator Terror Assault list with a couple Night Raptor squads

+ force commander, 9x20 man infantry squads and a pair of Sentinels with lascannons or multi-meltas. Gene-spliced(for the night vision) and Armory of Old Night for the Lasrifles. Good luck killing 180 dudes shooting at long range at night while getting picked apart by terminators. (im aware a vehicle heavy army will in fact tear this a new one but you cant cover every base)

Edited April 19, 2023 by Galron

[Slips]

If anything, I think if your personal local meta has 2+ Militia Players that you are likely to play games against on a semi-regular basis that Ap3> Large Blasts, which we all derided for being worthless, now might be just a bit less worthless if theyre helping you pick up handfuls of chaff a turn.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Slips

[xxxjtmxxx]

when you make good positioning with the 50 man blobs, its not that easy to clear the board. i think, way to go ist multiple 150 man infantry blobs and lot of arty and tanks, pinning Marines to the ground and win over vp

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

While it breaks my heart to say it....not really.

I politely disagree. 

 

Leman Russ costs 120 now and his AV is up to 14 again.

No sponsons and Third Line as a new rule which basically means that every glance becomes a penetrating hit.

 

Nonetheless with AV14 a lot tougher. It can have Gravis Lascannons or Autocannons for free and if you take the right provenance you can play 6 per Heavy Support slot which you get two additional from.

The baneblade is down whopping 350 points and costs 400 and gets as well 14 AV again. Thunderbolt is 120 as well.

All in all I think those tanks are a lot better than their SA counterparts.

[Brother Sutek]

So the SA have worse tanks than base soldiers? GW are so random! I really need some time to read this through. Work and family ha e had me going all out. I don't want to have to remove sponsons but if they are actually playable... now if we could get field artillery to be good I'd be a happier man. 

[Lord Marshal]

4 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

So the SA have worse tanks than base soldiers? GW are so random! I really need some time to read this through. Work and family ha e had me going all out. I don't want to have to remove sponsons but if they are actually playable... now if we could get field artillery to be good I'd be a happier man. 

 

The problem is that on paper the Solar Auxilia have better Leman Russes because they don't have the Third-Line rule, but in practice most people are only really running Vanquishers anyway. Every Glance being a Pen matters a lot less when you've got a 72" range, plus Militia get them for 30pts cheaper.

 

Militia getting AV14 Baneblades at a far more reasonable cost is hopefully a sign FW acknowledge the Solar Auxilia (and Legiones) ones are a joke and will update them, either in Legacies or via a FAQ. While I'm dreaming, I want a pony. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Brother Sutek said:

So the SA have worse tanks than base soldiers? GW are so random! I really need some time to read this through. Work and family ha e had me going all out. 

Same here hence I read it while sitting on the toilet. 

[Nagashsnee]

12 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I politely disagree. 

 

Leman Russ costs 120 now and his AV is up to 14 again.

No sponsons and Third Line as a new rule which basically means that every glance becomes a penetrating hit.

 

Nonetheless with AV14 a lot tougher. It can have Gravis Lascannons or Autocannons for free and if you take the right provenance you can play 6 per Heavy Support slot which you get two additional from.

The baneblade is down whopping 350 points and costs 400 and gets as well 14 AV again. Thunderbolt is 120 as well.

All in all I think those tanks are a lot better than their SA counterparts.

Allot to unpack here, no one said the Russ is bad, 1) we are talking about if any tank OTHER then the russ vaquisher is worth it points wise. And the gravis lascannons or autocannons pale to the vanquisher variant. We are comparing tanks to the king of tanks atm the av14 russ vanquisher. Otherwise completly agree with the av14 and 6 per slot stuff 100%.

2) The baneblade was again mentioned, and while it got allot cheaper it really suffers by may of its guns being bad, ap4 main gun and no real way to get ap3/2 other then praying for 6+ rendings on 400 point vehicle is not great. 

3) Thunderbolts are not tanks, but i 100% agree they are great. 

4) I never compared them to other armies, we are talking abou tanks internally in the militia list, which for me has bad INTERNAL balance tank wise with most tanks being really really bad. Triply so when i can just spam vanquishers (again we are talking purely efficiency here not general fun lists). 

 

[Dezron]

*Notices Volkite macro-saker in Militia PDF*

Oh cool, wonder where it goes...

Nowhere, it goes nowhere.

Alright GW you do you and let humble servant of the Machine God fix it.

Thankfuly it's easy fix, let's put it in Armoury of Old Night Provenance and make it replace any Battle Cannon at a cost of +30 points per unit, regardless of the number of models or types of weapons upgraded in a given unit.

Enjoy.

[Brother Sutek]

Well I have a lot to digest but I'm going to try and not wishlist. Right now I seem to be in need to remove sponsors on a few tanks and look to see how many Lascannons I can field and troops I can stuff in. I have some field guns but I'll see what is solid. Also I have lots of old rough riders and Death riders so there's that. Then I'll add in some Alpha Legion advisors, nod nod yes I have options here. Time to think. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's hilariously dumb that in 1st, solar aux russes didn't have sponsons while the militia did; in 2nd they reversed it, maybe making it more fluffy, but frustrating preexisting players.

[Brother Sutek]

I have eight or nine leman russ that want to be used but all of them have sponsors. Its a matter of painting and gentle conversion. Want them for both armies even if they mostly aren't worth the points.

[TheTrans]

So is there any reason they removed all dedicated transport options (that aren't locked behind a provenance)? 

[Dezron]

Tech Guard (aka Admech PDF) 3000 Point List:

Provenances:
- Armoury of Old Night

- Cyber-augmetics

 

Imperialis Militia Force Commander (+100 Points)

- Trait: Marcher Lord

- Power Sword (+10 Points)
- Archaotech Pistol (+10 Points)

- Cyber-familiar (+10 Points)

- Power armour (+15 Points)

- Iron halo (+ 20 Points)

Total: 165 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Command Cadre  (+45 Points)

- Attatch to Commander as Household Retinue

- + 15 Militia Bodyguards (+120 Points)

- Upgrade Las-Weapons to Volkite (+30 Points)

- The Militia Lieutenant may take a refractor field (+5 points) 

- The Militia Lieutenant may take melta bombs (+5 points) 

- Nuncio-vox (+10 Points)

- Militia standard (+10 Points)

- Carapace armour (+20 Points)

- Meltagun (+15 Points)

Total: 260 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Infantry Squad (3 Slots, 9 Units) (+80 Points)

- Upgrade Lasgun to Lasrifle

- The entire squad may be given krak grenades (+10 Points) (9 Units)

- Grenade launcher (+10 Points) (6 Units)

- Meltagun (+15 Points) ( 3 Units)

Total: 915 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Grenadier Squad  (2 Slots, 2 Units) (+75 Points)

- 10 Additional Grenadiers (+60 Points) (2 Units)

- The Grenadier Sergeant may take melta bombs (+10 Points) (2 Units)

- Nuncio-vox (+10 Points) (2 Units)

- Sniper rifle (+10 Points) (1 per Unit)

- Heavy stubber (+5 Points) (1 per Unit)

- Upgrade Las-Weapons to Volkite, upgrade Sniper rifle to Needle Vulnus, upgrade Heavy Stubber to Volkite Culverin (+30 Points) (2 Units)

Total: 400 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Ogryn Brute Squad (1 Slot, 1 Unit) (+100 Points)

- + 2 Ogryn Brutes (+60 Points)

- Ogryn Boss (+15 Points)

- Heavy flamer (+5 Points)

- Carapace armour  (+25 Points)

- Boarding shield (+25 Points)

Total: 230 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Field Gun Battery (1 Slot, 1 Unit) (+45 Points)

- Up to 5 additional Militia Field Guns (+200 Points)

- Exchange all cannons for Kalliope mortar

Total: 245 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Sentinel Squadron (1 Slot, 1 Unit) (+60 Points)

- Up to 4 additional Militia Sentinels (+240 Points)

- Replace 3 Multilasers with Autocannons

- Replace 2 Multilasers with Missile Launcher (+10 Points)

Total: 310 Points

 

Imperialis Militia Heavy Ordnance Battery (2 Slots, 2 Units) (+75 Points)

- Two additional Gun Carriages (+130 Points) (2 Units)

- 16 additional Militia Gunners.  (+32 Points) (2 Units)

Total: 474 Points

Total Points used: 2999

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, TheTrans said:

So is there any reason they removed all dedicated transport options (that aren't locked behind a provenance)? 

 

Because no one buys the cargo 8 and they need to sell that

 

[MichaelCarmine]

I think i've settled on Provenances for my Krieger Militia.

Feral Warriors and Industrial Stronghold.

The WS Bonus on the Charge is foremost to boost my Cavalry and "Ogryn" units, but equipped with Bayonets, even a mere 20 man infantry squad could use that to engage small Astartes Squads. 

That combined with the "beloved by the people" WL trait and 2-3 Outflanking Death Riders could make for a cool combi, if the opponent intercepts your Warlord on the Flanking Assault! :D

ChainAxe upgrades from Feral Warriors als help my Ambot-"Ogryns", to Sell the look of their CC weapons xD

Throw in some Artillery in form of Field Mortars and (Las)Rapiers, and some squadrons of Russes (thanks to 5 HS Slots) - and i can feel the Krieg-vibe shape up!

[Galron]

I have to go look up what a cargo 8 even is, not that I plan on getting one.

[Gorgoff]

19 minutes ago, Galron said:

I have to go look up what a cargo 8 even is, not that I plan on getting one.

I love that model and think it is a great addition as an option for militia.

In fact they could have gone a little further if you ask me and add Quadbikes and the other stuff from the Genestealer Cult and necromunda range as well.

Maybe they do that in the future, who knows?