New codex in Spring 2024

[Isual]

Do you think we will get our own entry besides Space Marines in the index era? 
I think it could be possible as we are already announced to get a own Codex in 10. edition.

[bigtrouble]

14 hours ago, Isual said:

Do you think we will get our own entry besides Space Marines in the index era? 
I think it could be possible as we are already announced to get a own Codex in 10. edition.

I assume so, because of The Lion.

[Interrogator Stobz]

When is Spring? September ???

Lolz.

 

I too presume the Big Four will get Index Faction rules from day one. GW have said they exist by saying that they won't get individual Faction Focus Articles.

[Harleqvin]

thought everything was getting index rules.

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Harleqvin said:

thought everything was getting index rules.

 

Yes, everything is getting Index rules. But there is a difference between getting Index rules for DA-specific units and getting DA army rules. Will the DAs be basically Codex Marines with a few custom units or will there be rules representing Chapter traits etc from Day 1? I am sure that all the DA units and characters will be playable but will they play like Dark Angels? Or will they play like UMs in green/bone armour until the Codex comes out?

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Well, the faction focus preview is certainly very, very disappointing. Boring, even, when compared to almost everything else in there.

 

But at least the Lion now has a 3++ and all kinds of neat stuff, I guess.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Cpt. Bannockburn

[ValourousHeart]

8 hours ago, Cpt. Bannockburn said:

Well, the faction focus preview is certainly very, very disappointing. Boring, even, when compared to almost everything else in there.

 

But at least the Lion now has a 3++ and all kinds of neat stuff, I guess.

 

I guess we read 2 different articles.

 

It is nice to see that all marines are getting Oath of Moment, and it is specifically the detachments that will make each chapter play slightly different.  Meaning if there is something we want to do with our own particular brand of Dark Angels, we can grab any detachment we want and have fun.

 

When the codex comes out we should get a couple more detachments beyond the Grim Resolve one mentioned today.  Plus we will have access to all of the other detachments listed for any other marine army.  So we won't be hurting for detachments options.

 

Grim Resolve means that DA are going to retain control of objectives to the last man.

 

The Deathwing Command Squad while a little disappointing that the DW Apoth is locked to this squad, it does open up some interesting ideas about what the RW Black Knights will look like.  Are we getting a 2nd data sheet for Black Knights in the form of a RW command squad.  Will the RWBK just get to take an Apothecary.  Or will our Bike Apothecary be a character that could run on his own or join a couple different bike squad options.

 

The Lion has some really cool things going on.  No cap on the MW his shield chucks out.

 

Here is The Lion side by side with Guilliman.

 

 

[bigtrouble]

My thoughts almost exactly @ValourousHeart. The objective control mechanic is perhaps not well understood yet, but I believe it will be very powerful.

 

 

[WrathOfTheLion]

It's also the more general detachment, with likely Ravenwing and Deathwing to come with the Codex.

 

As for the ability itself, it keeps armies with strong pinning from keeping you from holding objectives. Units like a Plagueburst Crawler can shoot and force a battleshock test on infantry, which won't stop you from scoring even if you fail.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

I certainly see that Grim Resolve in its new incarnation is useful. But it's also super boring, IMO. I'm not looking at it from a competitive POV and more from a "how does this change my game in comparison to vanilla blue boys" perspective, and the answer is: it doesn't. 

It's just there. A thing that's marginally in keeping with established fluff. 

 

And yes, the Lion definitely got a hard buff in comparison to his current stats. Especially the harder to wound factor and 3++, and the ability to provide 4+ FNP in his vicinity are very nice to have. And luckily they announced a re-release immediately after 10th hits. So ... that's probably at the beginning of July then, and good news to everyone like me who didn't get one.

 

I'm not sure of my opinion of the DW Command Squad yet. It depends on how much a squad like that costs in terms of points with the mandatory inclusion of apothecary, champion and ancient. I've got a feeling that with the apothecary and his free revive (although the lack of healing hurts, especially with the new storm shield ability) it's usually worth it to max the squad to 10 models. 

Also, no more putting CMLs on TH/SS or LC models :(

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Lion does seem in a good position for 10th! I'm curious about the DA Codex though because in my understanding looks like there will be only one book with all Marine factions, or am I reading it wrong?

[crimsondave]

Yeah, that datasheet looks like the guy who just bashed demon primarch Angron’s brains out.  Very happy old Dad got his props.

[Vardus]

4 hours ago, Chaplain Lucifer said:

Lion does seem in a good position for 10th! I'm curious about the DA Codex though because in my understanding looks like there will be only one book with all Marine factions, or am I reading it wrong?

 

They showed off a Codex Roadmap that had Codex Dark Angels slated for a Spring 2024 release.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

2 hours ago, Vardus said:

 

They showed off a Codex Roadmap that had Codex Dark Angels slated for a Spring 2024 release.

Thanks for the info.

Guess we'll have a temporary Lion until codex comes out and then another one. That's a lot of Lion changes in less than a year, it seems.

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah the Lion looks great, but Grim Resolve is super boring.

Like days of old when we just lost less badly this just keeps us in games instead of being a buff.

[Prot]

I dunno... I'm of the mind that Grim Resolve is/could be a great late game mechanism. A lot of Turn 3/4/5's I foresee having to take more shock tests. 

 

If I understand the Deathwing command squad banner, failing the test would have no implication, and then adding the banner's +1 basically makes the squad equivalent to what we consider a 'high obsec' unit like Intercessors, etc. 

 

I love the Termies though. Always my favourite aspect of any army I play is the Termies, and I don't think Dark Angels are going to disappoint in this area.

 

The Lion looks like a fun unit too. I may change the  nickname from "forest murder hobo" to "Robbinghood" since he's going to be rolling out of a bush and stealing CP from the rich, and giving to the poor (me). 

 

Although it's a bit gimmicky, it will be cool when it goes off.... very potent when it does.

 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Sorry if I was unclear; it will be useful for winning games, it's just boring as hell.

Maybe I should play counts as Templars 

Defo having the hood on our Liege "Robbinghood" when he becomes available to us in the antipodes. 

[ValourousHeart]

I guess we define boring differently as well.

 

How many armies have we seen so far that give out lethal hits, or devastating wounds or sustained hits 1 like they are candy on Halloween?  Personally I find cookie cutter things like that boring!  

 

Aside from that those 3 rules, the next most popular rule we've seen is numerous ways to force Battle Shock outside of the Battle Shock phase.  Including in the core rules from destroyed transports.

 

But so far we have only seen a very few abilities that limit the impact or likelihood of Battle Shock.

[phandaal]

Keeping some OC when you are Battle Shocked is situationally useful, but Combat Doctrines still feel stronger and more fun to play around with during a game.

 

I think it will come down to the enhancements and strats available in the Unforgiven detachment.

[Harleqvin]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:02 AM, Karhedron said:

 

Yes, everything is getting Index rules. But there is a difference between getting Index rules for DA-specific units and getting DA army rules. Will the DAs be basically Codex Marines with a few custom units or will there be rules representing Chapter traits etc from Day 1? I am sure that all the DA units and characters will be playable but will they play like Dark Angels? Or will they play like UMs in green/bone armour until the Codex comes out?

 

It was shown there will be additional detachments for DA with things for them.

-----------------------

Grim Resolve should do quite well, as it makes us able to still attempt to control objectives. which effects everyone.

[ValourousHeart]

I'm just really excited that we get Oath of Moment.  I was a huge fan of Target Guidance in our current codex, but at 2 CP felt it was hard to justify after turn 1 when we had to move out of Devastator Doctrine.  And even when Doctrines changed I still felt like 2 CP a turn was expensive given the other stratagems like Swift Strike and Hit and Run Warfare that I wanted to use to get my Ravenwing units out of assault later in the game.

 

With Oath of Moment I feel like I'll be getting an improved Target Guidance every turn, without having to restrict my target to a unit within 18" of a Land Speeder.  And my alternative Ravenwing list that doesn't have any speeders will now also get to take advantage of this ability.

 

I hope our unique units and characters are not locked to Dark Angel exclusive detachments.  Because I'm interested to try out Ravenwing lists that make use of the alternative detachments and decide which way I find most enjoyable.

[UtariOnzo]

Given how common battleshock seems to be, I think Grim Resolve is a bit of a sleeper hit for playing to the objective. It might not feel all that powerful outside of competitive play/in a vacuum, so I also initially felt a bit underwhelmed by it, but given all the leaks and previews I think it may end up being quite strong overall

[Karhedron]

Looking at the full rules, the Lion having "Fights First" is really strong. Basically the non-active player gets to activate first in the fight phase but charging confers "Fights First". What this means in practice is that a powerful melee unit with "Fights First" is a massive deterrent to anyone charging you since the Lion will fight before charging enemies now. And to make the threat worse, HI has been increased to 6" so the enemy won't want to charge anywhere the Primarch since he can easily solo most squads (unless they have a good Invuln) before they even get to strike.

[Lord_Ikka]

4 hours ago, UtariOnzo said:

Given how common battleshock seems to be, I think Grim Resolve is a bit of a sleeper hit for playing to the objective. It might not feel all that powerful outside of competitive play/in a vacuum, so I also initially felt a bit underwhelmed by it, but given all the leaks and previews I think it may end up being quite strong overall

It's also going to really help vs Chaos Knights and some of what they will be playing towards. It won't quite stop them from getting the buffs in the 3rd round onward, but it will possibly help keep DA units from losing objectives. 

 

20 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Looking at the full rules, the Lion having "Fights First" is really strong. Basically the non-active player gets to activate first in the fight phase but charging confers "Fights First". What this means in practice is that a powerful melee unit with "Fights First" is a massive deterrent to anyone charging you since the Lion will fight before charging enemies now. And to make the threat worse, HI has been increased to 6" so the enemy won't want to charge anywhere the Primarch since he can easily solo most squads (unless they have a good Invuln) before they even get to strike.

He will be quite the powerful counter-attacker. The enemy will have to plan and play around him very carefully.

[G8Keeper]

It looks as if battle shock is going to be more important to the game than first realised.

 

Abikities are being realised that interact with it far more than id have thought. For example, the Tyranid Shadow in the Warp once per game ability that forces every enemy unit to take a BS test, in either the Nid or opponents command phase. This means Grim Resolve retaining that 1 OC if failed could win you the game, retaining that vital objective.