Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus - Chaos Space Marines

[Orange Knight]

The Chaos Legionnaires have an excellent datasheet also, I am only just absorbing it now. 

 

I really like their "Veterans of the Long War" rule, and their wargear selection.

 

I assume we still have no confirmation on the point costs of these upgrades? I cant imagine that a model equipped with a Havoc Autocannon would cost the same as one equipped with a boltgun?

[sandrorect]

22 minutes ago, War of the Eagle said:

Abandon being T5 is a bit weird, I'd have guessed t7 at min

 

Abadon is a leader, so he is inside a unit for the beginig of the battle. That is a extra of wounds to protect him

 

Gulligam is not so is more posible to snipe better.

 

Also, the bolter is a weapon without no special rules, al least to marines. There is no power fist (heavy close combat weapon)  And we will be have some extra cards, call armorycard, with the rules an profile of the extra weapons

Edited May 4, 2023 by sandrorect

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Icons will be mandatory.  Having a unit with built in RRs to wound is handy on a squad where the predominant weapon strength is 4.

 

The Pacts are...I dunno.  Chaos has always been self-flagellating, but a rerollable 6+ is decently reliable I suppose.  I hope more units get access to Icons.

[Malakithe]

Sounds like the Detachment might grant Marks

[ApulianAbaddon]

Abaddon is a joke compared to Guilliman and I know Guilliman is a primarch

Dark Pact is ridicolous compared to the flexibility of the doctrines

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, sandrorect said:

 

Abadon is a leader, so he is inside a unit for the beginig of the battle. That is a extra of wounds to protect him

 

Do we know if a Leader replaces someone when they join a squad or if they're just an addition to it?

[Kallas]

12 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

Is this the first time we've seen a Boltgun profile?

Yeah, 2A 4/0/1. I'm surprised it's not RF1, but at least that's a positive surprise.

Not that a Bolter is any good still, but oh well.

 

Interesting to see the special weapon profiles. Flamer seems like it's probably just as useless as 8th/9th; Melta seems ok, staying at 12" helps; Plasma changes are probably good for the overall health of the game, and they're still heavy infantry killers but not nearly as able to punch vehicles down. Havoc Autocannon seems solid (2x 9/-1/3 is pretty good), though the Reaper Chaincannon seems a bit weak, especially compared to the Onslaught Gatling Cannons (though I think we've only seen the Heavy OGC, so maybe the OGC will be 5/0/1 too and maybe it won't have [DW] either).

 

Definitely interesting to see, though a lot of stuff is still going to come down to costs of units/upgrades to see how viable the various weapons are (eg, if Flamers still cost as much as a Meltagun or Plasma, they'll still not see the light of day...)

[Orange Knight]

Just now, ApulianAbaddon said:

Abaddon is a joke compared to Guilliman and I know Guilliman is a primarch

Dark Pact is ridicolous compared to the flexibility of the doctrines

 

Dark Pact is an army rule, not a detachment rule.

 

We haven't seen the detachment bonus for the Traitor Astartes as far as I can tell.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Just now, ApulianAbaddon said:

Abaddon is a joke compared to Guilliman and I know Guilliman is a primarch

Dark Pact is ridicolous compared to the flexibility of the doctrines

Dark Pact isn't a Detachment ability like Doctrines; it's an army ability like Oath of Moment.

 

We haven't seen the Doctrines equivalent yet.

[Malakithe]

Just now, Iron Father Ferrum said:

Dark Pact isn't a Detachment ability like Doctrines; it's an army ability like Oath of Moment.

 

We haven't seen the Doctrines equivalent yet.

"How does one pledge themselves to a specific god and gain their boons, exactly? That’s also part of the Detachment rule for the Slaves to Darkness Detachment, which makes it easier than ever before – but you’ll need to wait to see the sinister details…"

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, ApulianAbaddon said:

Dark Pact is ridicolous compared to the flexibility of the doctrines

Dark Pact should be compared to Oath of Moment: DP is an option for every unit every time they shoot/fight, so it can be far more widely and broadly applied than OOM, which is a single enemy unit in a given turn. It has a drawback baked in, but with CSM Leadership being 6+, and with a possible/probable reroll from an Icon, they are unlikely to fail the roll very often.

 

It seems good, not as outright powerful as OOM, but definitely still valuable in general. Lethal Hits will let Bolters and weaker guns like the Reaper Chaincannon plink wounds off of tougher units like vehicles; while Sustained Hits 1 will let weapons do more damage to their preferred targets (eg, Bolters to infantry; Plasma Guns and Meltaguns to heavy infantry, etc).

[RWJP]

2 minutes ago, ApulianAbaddon said:

Abaddon is a joke compared to Guilliman and I know Guilliman is a primarch

Dark Pact is ridicolous compared to the flexibility of the doctrines

You have to remember that Dark Pacts is the Army Rule, not the Detachment Rule. We still don't know what the Detachment Rule for them will look like.

[Indy Techwisp]

3 minutes ago, ApulianAbaddon said:

Abaddon is a joke compared to Guilliman and I know Guilliman is a primarch

 

Abaddon is also hanging out in a squad with Leader, so it somewhat makes sense he wouldn't be as powerful as Guilliman, who is a Lone Operative (when near Astartes infantry).

[Karhedron]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Do we know if a Leader replaces someone when they join a squad or if they're just an addition to it?

 

We do not know yet.....

 

But I think they are added to a squad, not replacing anyone. Most Transport vehicles seem to have gone up in Transport Capacity (e.g. Land Raider is now 12). I think this extra space is to provide room for Characters to join squads. Otherwise Terminator Captains and Librarians would not be able to ride in a Land Raider with a squad.

[Kallas]

Just now, Malakithe said:

"How does one pledge themselves to a specific god and gain their boons, exactly? That’s also part of the Detachment rule for the Slaves to Darkness Detachment, which makes it easier than ever before – but you’ll need to wait to see the sinister details…"

 

Quote

Heretic Astartes warbands come in many shapes and colours, but they are united by their willingness to make Dark Pacts for power. As their Army Rule, this gives all Chaos Space Marine commanders the opportunity to acquire potent core abilities… if they’re willing to gamble the lives of their troops.

Dark Pact is their Army Rule. Oath of Moment was also described as the Astartes Army Rule, and Doctrines are marked as Detachment Rule

[Special Officer Doofy]

Hahahaha. Both units shown (Legionaires and Abaddon) have rerolls... I'm dying 

 

Abaddon can join a squad, nice.

 

Fleshmetal guns are looking sweet!

 

Glad to see the bolter is 2 shots at full range but didn't get AP.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Special Officer Doofy

[AceofCase]

Kinda disappointed that Chaos would get the faction rule that has a negative, but it is what it is. Legionaries look solid. The return of being able to double up on special weapons is nice, even if they aren't duplicates. As long as we can take Chaos icons on more units and they aren't too expensive, I don't see why you wouldn't spam the Dark Pacts. 

 

Also damage 3 autocannons are hilarious. I need more immediately. 

[Tokugawa]

Many infantry weapons are previewed today:

 

Boltgun is 2 attacks without any extra rules. Astartes chainsword still has AP-1. Plasma pistol is still S7 dmg1/S8 dmg2(but the picture removed info about plasmagun).

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Special Officer Doofy said:

Hahahaha. Both units shown (Legionaires and Abaddon) have rerolls... I'm dying 

 

They did say that Space Marines have better re-roll access and CSM are still Space Marines despite their Chaos alignment 

[Bradeh]

Abaddon is roaming around or deepstriking in a pack of Terminators, good luck. Just how it should be. 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

9 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The Chaos Legionnaires have an excellent datasheet also, I am only just absorbing it now. 

 

I really like their "Veterans of the Long War" rule, and their wargear selection.

 

I assume we still have no confirmation on the point costs of these upgrades? I cant imagine that a model equipped with a Havoc Autocannon would cost the same as one equipped with a boltgun?

 

No point costs yet for anything really, but I personally am starting to think that the point cost stuff will be separate from the unit cards, unless they happen to be hiding some contents of the cards and we are only seeing 90% of a true card.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Tokugawa said:

Many infantry weapons are previewed today:

 

Boltgun is 2 attacks without any extra rules. Astartes chainsword still has AP-1. Plasma pistol is still S7 dmg1/S8 dmg2(but the picture removed info about plasmagun).

 

Remember tho that profiles won't be the same across the board now tho.

A Plasma Pistol used by a legionaire will likely be inherently better than a Plasma Pistol used by an Astra Militarum Squad Sargent.

[Kallas]

Just now, AceofCase said:

Kinda disappointed that Chaos would get the faction rule that has a negative, but it is what it is.

Well, for Legionaries (the basic Troops, above Cultists) have a base 28% chance of failing their DP roll; and with an Icon they have a 7.7% chance of failing their DP roll. So, it's not like CSM armies are going to be taking massive damage every turn.

 

Compared to OOM, it's much more widespread and easily applicable, since every unit can use it (or not) every time they shoot or fight. So a Legionary unit can use it twice in a turn, if they shoot then charge, and they can use it against two or more enemy units (eg, shoot one, charge another: or even split fire into two enemy units and charge a third). So it's much more flexible, but less directly powerful.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Abaddon being with Terminators may be why he's T5. I suspect, for simplicity of wound roll allocation, they'll make every Character/unit pair the same toughness.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Kallas said:

Well, for Legionaries (the basic Troops, above Cultists) have a base 28% chance of failing their DP roll; and with an Icon they have a 7.7% chance of failing their DP roll. So, it's not like CSM armies are going to be taking massive damage every turn.

 

You are, however, far more likely to burn through a Cultist Mob using this eventually.

You are probably going to be using it often on Cultists tho, since its a free buff and the chaff unit was going to get blasted off the board anyway.