Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus - Chaos Space Marines

[acrozatarim]

I wonder what the Stealth rule is. We know it's not 'can't be targeted beyond 12"' as that's what the Nurgle-specific benefit is. It can't just be a -1 to hit, surely, as that would scarcely need a USR just for that.

[Bradeh]

3 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

Abaddon being with Terminators may be why he's T5. I suspect, for simplicity of wound roll allocation, they'll make every Character/unit pair the same toughness.

 

This is the answer. 

[Scribe]

9 minutes ago, AceofCase said:

Kinda disappointed that Chaos would get the faction rule that has a negative, but it is what it is.

 

This is no surprise. I'm stunned we didnt get even more random pushed on us, but I suppose we didnt see the Possessed profile/rules yet.

[acrozatarim]

2 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

You are, however, far more likely to burn through a Cultist Mob using this eventually.

You are probably going to be using it often on Cultists tho, since its a free buff and the chaff unit was going to get blasted off the board anyway.

Lethal Hits on a cultist mob seems a legit way to boost their damage output.

 

I'm less sold on either Lethal Hits or Sustained Hits on legionaries. They're nice but not exactly earth-shaking. There are a number of units who would work nicely with Sustained Hits - but they can't get icons as they're either things like daemon engines or simply don't have the things in their kits AFAIK.

[danodan123]

5 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Well, for Legionaries (the basic Troops, above Cultists) have a base 28% chance of failing their DP roll; and with an Icon they have a 7.7% chance of failing their DP roll. So, it's not like CSM armies are going to be taking massive damage every turn.

 

Compared to OOM, it's much more widespread and easily applicable, since every unit can use it (or not) every time they shoot or fight. So a Legionary unit can use it twice in a turn, if they shoot then charge, and they can use it against two or more enemy units (eg, shoot one, charge another: or even split fire into two enemy units and charge a third). So it's much more flexible, but less directly powerful.

 

There isn't many units that can take an icon though (currently), that 28% chance will sting like crazy when it happens on the damage dealers of the army list.

 

It really doesn't strike me as something that is 'strong' compared to OOM.

[Ruskinses]

So the Chaos marine ability "veterans of the long war" and the Genestealer ability "Vanguard Predator" are exactly the same but have different names - wasnt the idea to avoid this? 

[TrawlingCleaner]

10 Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle and Abaddon, striding up the battlefield laugh at your puny Oaths of Moment. Begone loyalist cur!

[Irate Khornate]

Looks like CSM terminators are likely to be loadout locked again. Probably the same with blight Lord terminators.

[Indy Techwisp]

On a completely different note from weapon stats, Abaddon's health or if Dark Pacts can make you table your own Army, which CSM group is the guy on the article thumbnail supposed to be from?

 

[acrozatarim]

Just now, Indy Techwisp said:

On a completely different note from weapon stats, Abaddon's health or if Dark Pacts can make you table your own Army, which CSM group is the guy on the article thumbnail supposed to be from?

 

Red Corsairs, I think.

[Bradeh]

Just now, Irate Khornate said:

Looks like CSM terminators are likely to be loadout locked again. Probably the same with blight Lord terminators.

 

Based on what we've seen most units in the game, especially newer releases will all be loadout locked. Not like it really matters, combi-weapons, power weapons, etc are all one profile now. 

[ZeroWolf]

I concur, definitely looks like Huron's lads.

 

Nice piece of art though, wonder if it'll be in the new book as faction art

[TrawlingCleaner]

6 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Looks like CSM terminators are likely to be loadout locked again. Probably the same with blight Lord terminators.

Currently the only unit in the CSM codex that aren't are: Bikes, Havocs and Chaos Lords in PA. To be frank, I expect those units to lose their options to be restricted to box loudout only. There's fleetingly few factions that have anything other than box loadouts anymore (mostly just SM and I'm not holding out hope for them)

 

2 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I concur, definitely looks like Huron's lads.

 

Nice piece of art though, wonder if it'll be in the new book as faction art

It's been around since the lead up to the 9th ed book and featured heavily in their promotion for the codex. I do love it when the Corsairs get love (definitely not biased)

Edited May 4, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner

[Lord Marshal]

I know there's 1 Renegade Chapter player for every 100 Chaos Legion, but I do kind of wish basic Legionnaires and Renegades had separate profiles. It's a small, pedantic thing, but not everybody is a Veteran of the Long War. 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

There's fleetingly few factions that have anything other than box loadouts anymore (mostly just SM and I'm not holding out hope for them)

 

Tzaangors.

They have a non-box loadout in that they need an Upgrade sprue added to have Guns and Chainswords, whereas the box sprue just has the Tzaangor blades and other AoS stuff they can't use.

[Petitioner's City]

Are heavy melee weapons power fists, and are accursed weapons power weapons, shock weapons, chain axes, lightning claws, etc?

[Tokugawa]

6 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Looks like CSM terminators are likely to be loadout locked again. Probably the same with blight Lord terminators.

Blightlords would also get their weapons combined into "plague (close combat) weapon" and "heavy plague weapon".

[Kallas]

6 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

There isn't many units that can take an icon though (currently), that 28% chance will sting like crazy when it happens on the damage dealers of the army list.

 

It really doesn't strike me as something that is 'strong' compared to OOM.

Yes, some will depend on Icon access. But at a 28% base rate, you can reasonably expect 3/4 units not to suffer any damage in a given phase; if you're not really needing the extra output from DP for a units' shooting/fighting, then you can just choose not to take the chance; and even if you do, you get to benefit from it before you suffer the possible consequences. It's also possible that more units will (re)gain access to Icons, as some of the units that couldn't take them were a bit odd, but that remains to be seen.

 

As for strength, I think it's reasonably powerful compared to OOM. OOM is heavily limited in application: you get a benefit vs 5 units per game. It's a strong buff, but it is very limited in how much you actually benefit from it, whereas DP you can use on any applicable unit every turn, against possibly multiple enemy units. Compared to Shadow In The Warp, which is the Tyranid Army Rule, which you only ever benefit from once, and it is random (ie, a Ld test) whether an enemy unit is impacted or not, DP definitely seems like a decent Army Rule.

[Petitioner's City]

9 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

On a completely different note from weapon stats, Abaddon's health or if Dark Pacts can make you table your own Army, which CSM group is the guy on the article thumbnail supposed to be from?

 

 

 

It's an existing image 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Lord Marshal said:

I know there's 1 Renegade Chapter player for every 100 Chaos Legion, but I do kind of wish basic Legionnaires and Renegades had separate profiles. It's a small, pedantic thing, but not everybody is a Veteran of the Long War. 

 

I've seen people use the normal Space Marine rules for the Non-Demon & Chaos renegades, but it makes some sense that GW would lump them together as they're often written as one and the same, sadly.

[TheMawr]

Heretic Astartes Mounted units ? Have we seen other datasheets or rules that references bikers and/or cavalry ? ( if not it likely might just be a catchall phrase for those in general and not a hint at daemonriding csm in the future :p... its weird to use mounted when the only applicable unit might be the lord discordant, who I think is likely to have a inv himself.)

[Petitioner's City]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I've seen people use the normal Space Marine rules for the Non-Demon & Chaos renegades, but it makes some sense that GW would lump them together as they're often written as one and the same, sadly.

 

I loved the "renegade" rules in Codex Chaos - it was rather flexible how you could add in things from Codex Ultramarines and imperial only wargear/vehicle lists.

 

 

[apologist]

40 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I like the risk/reward of their faction ability.

Yes, and it looks nice and flexible, too. With boltguns just a straight two shots now, Sustained fire 1 means a squad can throw a lot downfield, whether moving or not. 

 

Overall, the rules feel quite swingy and subject to the hands of fate... which seems very fitting for the followers of the Dark Gods. Pleasingly, however, it's not utterly random: you have complete control over whether or not (and when) to attempt the Dark Pact.

 

It's also worth noting that the effects occur whether or not you succeed the leadership check, so less 'feel-bad'.

[Lord Marshal]

9 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Heretic Astartes Mounted units ? Have we seen other datasheets or rules that references bikers and/or cavalry ? ( if not it likely might just be a catchall phrase for those in general and not a hint at daemonriding csm in the future :p... its weird to use mounted when the only applicable unit might be the lord discordant, who I think is likely to have a inv himself.)

 

Wouldn't be shocked if bikes/cavalry/chariots are just being merged into the one thing like they have been in Horus Heresy.

[Emperor Ming]

Army wide lethal hits, do we know what that is?

 

Sounds balanced